Why Afghanistan's partition may be unpreventable

[Agnostic Muslim]

@ Agnostic Muslim

Extension of your arguments -

Pakhtoons, Baloch, Sindhies and Punjabies can be better Indian nationals rather than being better Pakistanies.

That is what is the cultural concept of Akhand Bharat ! It was there and it shall remain in spite of political separations or all being different states.

Indian history is is not bereft of instances when many Indian states got together to face foreign invasion and fought under one flag not necessarily under religious flag.

It isn't a good extension of my argument because religion is a major part of the identity matrix in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Tribal, ethnic and religious identities all play into the 'identity matrix', and in the hypothetical scenario of Afghanistan's partition that we are discussing, Pakistan would be a match on all the major identity variables, whereas India was not and is not, which is why the British Colony of India was divided into two independent nations in 1947 to begin with.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

boss, a nation stands as it is, if its the first identity of its civilians. I mean, people of Pakistan dont recognize themselves as 'Pakistanis' first, but their first identity is Punjabi, Pashtun, Baloch, Sindhi, Mohajir etc. and the biggest problem they face when they start recognizing themselves as "Muslim First", which then means to serve Islam first, and then number of nation/ being Pakistanis also comes. and even in this certain case, being Muslim first is not enough as now you have Sectarian Wars as Sunni-Shia, (including Baloch-Punjabi, Sindhi-Punjabi, Mohajir-Punjabi, Pushtun-Punjabi-Mohajir etc). hence now you are fighting for "Sunni First", which then brings Shia on the same state as Ahmadis, Mohajirs, with other religious minorities like Hindu, Sikhs etc. like how you have lost Bangladesh as they were Bengali first, while you are Punjabi/Sunni First, and then being Pakistanis too :ranger:

you don't have your identity as "Pakistanis First". and hence you have problem of Secterian War even in financial center also, as daily Target Killings, which is mainly to target Mohajir/Shia, including Sindhis to establish dominance of Punjabi identity in Karachi, while Pushtun's have their own stake as they have entered in big numbers in Karachi too.....

A nation stands as it is, if its the first Identity of its all the civilians. like how being 'Indian' is the First Identity of Indians, then they are Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Punjabis, Bengalis, Tamil, Kashmiris, Biharis, Maharastriyan, Telgu etc also....

Sectarian and ethnic fighting in Pakistan is primarily the result of violence by extremist groups and the State's inability to effectively enforce law and order. and, in some cases, even enable these groups for varying political objectives (see for example the courting of the ASWJ/LeJ/SSP by the PMLN and PPP). The sectarian and ethnic violence in Pakistan is rarely some kind of 'spontaneous mob', rather it is targeted terrorist attacks by these groups.

Now don't misunderstand my point - I am not suggesting that the violence is not an issue - if left unchecked this violence can contribute to wider societal fissures that will broaden the sectarian and ethnic conflicts beyond these terrorist groups.

 

[rock127]

Sectarian and ethnic fighting in Pakistan is primarily the result of violence by extremist groups and the State's inability to effectively enforce law and order. and, in some cases, even enable these groups for varying political objectives (see for example the courting of the ASWJ/LeJ/SSP by the PMLN and PPP). The sectarian and ethnic violence in Pakistan is rarely some kind of 'spontaneous mob', rather it is targeted terrorist attacks by these groups.

Now don't misunderstand my point - I am not suggesting that the violence is not an issue - if left unchecked this violence can contribute to wider societal fissures that will broaden the sectarian and ethnic conflicts beyond these terrorist groups.

And how did these extremist groups originate???

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

And how did these extremist groups originate???

The same way the RSS/BJP/David Duke etc. came about - the difference being that in Pakistan the State ignored and/or enabled these groups instead of controlling them, in addition to various other historical dynamics (Afghan Jihad against Soviets, Gulf Arab financial support to these groups, the Saudi-Iran rift etc.) that exacerbated the influence and power of these groups.

 

[rock127]

The same way the RSS/BJP/David Duke etc. came about - the difference being that in Pakistan the State ignored and/or enabled these groups instead of controlling them, in addition to various other historical dynamics (Afghan Jihad against Soviets, Gulf Arab financial support to these groups, the Saudi-Iran rift etc.) that exacerbated the influence and power of these groups.

Comparing RSS/BJP/SS like Nationalistic orgs with blood thirsty Paki Terrorist Orgs shows your low levels of understanding.So your typical Paki comment of doesn't surprise me.

No wonder why Pakistan is in a mess because of it's wrongly placed priorities and sick mentality.

Keep burning Pakistan!

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Comparing RSS/BJP/SS like Nationalistic orgs with blood thirsty Paki Terrorist Orgs shows your low levels of understanding.So your typical Paki comment of doesn't surprise me.

No wonder why Pakistan is in a mess because of it's wrongly placed priorities and sick mentality.

Keep burning Pakistan!

You may view the BJP and RSS as 'nationalistic', I view them as extremist.

Your reaction and resort to ad hominems and derogatory generalizations about an entire nation and peoples was expected, and indicates an inability to understand any rational argument that does not dehumanize Pakistan and Pakistanis - try reading it again, though I really don't expect you to get it given the degree of anti-Pakistan prejudice and hatred your mind is wallowing in.

 

[rock127]

You may view the BJP and RSS as 'nationalistic', I view them as extremist.

Your reaction and resort to ad hominems and derogatory generalizations about an entire nation and peoples was expected, and indicates an inability to understand any rational argument that does not dehumanize Pakistan and Pakistanis - try reading it again, though I really don't expect you to get it given the degree of anti-Pakistan prejudice and hatred your mind is wallowing in.

Your definition of "Nationalism" is WRONG from the base and thats the reason your country came into existence.Your country is a product of hatred and false identity.You think you are some Arabs.You are simply a product of centuries of mutation by forced breeding.

BJP/RSS/SS etc never went in Pakistan and butchered Pakis and never did genocide/conversions like Pakis have done by its Army or Terrorist Orgs.These orgs are against any further division of India and also against anyone who believes in converting Hindus.Now that is highly irritating because the aim of Pakis is to break India,bleed India and convert Hindus.Now see who is bleeding.... 45,000 butchered since WOT in Pakistan by Pakistan.

Your super duper English is not going to hide the TERRORIST TAG PAKISTAN has on it's forehead today.The generalized TERRORIST image of Pakis worldwide is because of Pakis in DENIAL and you are a part of that.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

@rock127

I have already responded to you in post# 46 - beyond that I have nothing else to say to you since you have already made up your mind irrespective of what anyone else has to say.

 

[hello_10]

Sectarian and ethnic fighting in Pakistan is primarily the result of violence by extremist groups and the State's inability to effectively enforce law and order. and, in some cases, even enable these groups for varying political objectives (see for example the courting of the ASWJ/LeJ/SSP by the PMLN and PPP). The sectarian and ethnic violence in Pakistan is rarely some kind of 'spontaneous mob', rather it is targeted terrorist attacks by these groups.

Now don't misunderstand my point - I am not suggesting that the violence is not an issue - if left unchecked this violence can contribute to wider societal fissures that will broaden the sectarian and ethnic conflicts beyond these terrorist groups.

thats the main point. as there is always few differences between groups of people, even on the name of belonging to the different villages of the same district also. but the having extremism to handle the differences is the main point...

and there are some other issues also, why minorities don't find themselves "Pakistanis First", which resulted in break down of pakistan in 1972. you didn't want rulers from East Pakistan, hence you named them as the second grade citizens, and their pride of being Bengali First then resulted in its partition. and the same you find even right now, your religious minorities, including Shias/Ahmadies, don't share equal rights with Punjabis/Sunni tooo...... you can't blame a civilian for having proud of Pushtus/Shia/Ahmedi 'First' etc if they dont have 'equal rights' as the majority Sunni/Punjabis....... :ranger:

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

thats the main point. as there is always few differences between groups of people, even on the name of belonging to the different villages of the same district also. but the having extremism to handle the differences is the main point...

and there are some other issues also, why minorities don't find themselves "Pakistanis First", which resulted in break down of pakistan in 1972. you didn't want a rulers from East Pakistan, hence you named them as the second grade citizens, and their pride of being Bengali First then resulted in its partition. and the same you find even right now, your religious minorities, including Shias/Ahmadies, don't share equal rights with Punjabis/Sunni tooo...... you can't blame a civilian for having proud of Pushtus/Shia/Ahmedi 'First' etc if they dont have 'equal rights' as the majority Sunni/Punjabis....... :ranger:

The breakup of East Pakistan into Bangladesh was in fact an example of a significant percentage of a particular demographic group experiencing and feeling discriminated against and segregated.

I don't see those kinds of fissures in today's Pakistan, yet, even in Balochistan. The Pakhtun's are pretty well integrated into the economy and military across Pakistan, and with Karachi being the main economic hub of Pakistan, Sindh cannot exactly complain of 'being ignored'. That leaves Balochistan, which has some more complex issues involved, beyond 'economic and developmental deprivation'.