Who Is Really Running the United States?

Discussion in 'Americas' started by pmaitra, Sep 20, 2015.

  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Who Is Really Running the United States?
    A former CIA officer’s look into the American ‘Deep State’ which subverts democracy while hiding behind a mask of patriotism

    Anand Giridharadas | (The New York Times) | Russia Insider

    [​IMG]
    Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men

    This article originally appeared at The New York Times

    A former C.I.A. officer with experience in Turkey wrote a provocative essay this summer about the “deep state.” The phrase refers to a parallel “secret government” embedded in the military and intelligence services, whose purpose is to provide a check on electoral democracy.

    But Turkey wasn’t the target of the essay, written by Philip Giraldi. He was aiming, as his headline declared, at “Deep State America.”

    Mr. Giraldi, executive director of the Council for the National Interest, a foreign-policy advocacy group in Washington, called the American deep state of today an “unelected, unappointed, and unaccountable presence within the system that actually manages what is taking place behind the scenes.”

    In contrast to Turkey, where Mr. Giraldi said a covert “deep state” had taken root in the security realm, the American deep state of his description consists of visible people like the Clintons and the former C.I.A. director David H. Petraeus, concentrated around New York and Washington, who live at the fertile nexus of government and corporate power: Capitol Hill aides and legislators who cash in as lobbyists; former politicians who earn millions speaking to banks, or landing sinecures with them; technocrats who ricochet between Goldman Sachs and the Treasury Department; billionaire kingmakers dangling political donations; thinkers whose tanks are financed by corporations with a financial stake in their research.

    Now if this sounds like the rant of a lefty conspiracy theorist, consider the article’s home: a magazine called The American Conservative, a contrarian thorn in the side of the establishment right.

    The “deep state” metaphor seems to be ascendant as a way to explain present American realities. The writer Peter Dale Scott, professor emeritus of English at the University of California, Berkeley, last year published a similarly minded book called“The American Deep State,” which emphasized the role of security contractors, oil companies and financial firms. Meanwhile, Mike Lofgren, a Republican who spent 28 years as a congressional aide before quitting in 2011, has used “deep state” to describe a subterranean cross-party consensus on issues like “financialization, outsourcing, privatization” — a consensus, Mr. Lofgren has written, from which the public is distracted by above-ground debates over “diversionary social issues such as abortion or gay marriage.”

    It is possible, and perhaps wise, to dismiss the “deep state” idea as misguided. Theories about shadowy forces are always to be taken with much salt.

    Yet, as America witnesses the dual political phenomena of Donald Trump on the right and Senator Bernie Sanders on the left, and now the very public efforts by the establishment to step in and hinder either from going too far, the deep-state idea has renewed currency.

    “Talk in G.O.P. Turns to a Stop Donald Trump Campaign,” read the headline in this newspaper this month. It described Republican donors uneasy with the billionaire businessman’s unorthodox, even antibusiness views on issues like trade and the taxation of financial elites. Operatives apparently felt no embarrassment in publicly declaring a consensus among party elites that “something must be done to stop” Mr. Trump, in what is supposed to be a democratic primary process.

    Then came the Democratic Party companion piece, a report that its leaders, fearing the insurgency of Mr. Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, are developing “Plan Bs” to draft into the race should Hillary Rodham Clinton falter. All the Plan Bs mentioned are white, male, graybeard Democrats who have run for president before and are far safer to corporate donors than Mr. Sanders.

    Mr. Trump and Mr. Sanders have tapped into swelling populist sentiment in American life today — the former because he is a billionaire who boasts of independence from the corrupting sway of billionaires, the latter because he seeks to sharply reduce inequality.

    That both men have surged in tandem this election season, against the predictions of most, is telling. What will be more telling still is how far — or “deep” — supposedly open and democratic political parties are willing to go to provide a check on democracy.

    ________________________________________________________________________
    Commentary: NYT ran this piece. This is very surprising. What is that supposed to mean? I suspect, there must be some internal conflict between the various financiers who finance the private bank called the Federal Reserve. Is this indicative of cracks showing as the Dollar hegemony is dwindling?
     
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  3. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    One thing for sure..USA is not being run by democratically elected politicians as they are all in the pockets of special interest groups and lobbyists. People have no power. Military industrial complex, mega corporations and lobbies decide all policies including foreign policy. Trump pointed fingers boldly at all other candidates and said.
    "I paid you...I paid you ..you got money from me" etc. and none of them counteracted as its true that they all take money from businessmen. US politicians are bought...whoever pays them..they sing their song. Bitter truth !
     
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  4. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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  5. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    All these Bilderbergs and Illuminati are merely the propaganda that anti-Americans did. But the propaganda was not very far from truth either. Mention of Bilderberg or Rockefellars is only to give a substantive outlet to the angst. Not per se the real culprits, presuming there are culprits in this land of the rotten.

    Reality, while not very far from substantive on ground propaganda, is also a lot, lot more complex. You will have to open up and re-examine the rationale for multi-lateral agencies, financial flows and mechanisms, so called development policies in third world countries, so called economic studies and theories, political alignments, complete dependence of so called knowledge industries on IPR policiing and much more. This will help build up you own world view on how the mechanism truly works. Bilderbergs are merely a side show. The real network was never for the benefit of people it was for the benefit of the few and simultaneously for the distraction of the larger masses of people.

    Anyhow the simpler yet irrefutable indicaiton of what or who rules USA can be obtained by noticing the fact that India got its Kejri and India restricted him to English medium educated Delhi. USA got their own kejri in the form of Obama and they made him president twice in a row. A bunch of people who can be made to act like sheeple by something as dumb as a Soap Opera in the Main Stream Media, deserve the masters they have chosen.

    Look at India on the other hand. Modi had to work goddamn hard to convince people and keep convincing them through 20+ years of public life. And he actually did substantive stuff despite all the so called national institution and patriots pulling him down for their own petty gains.
     
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  6. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Must watch video. Secty. of State John Kerry introduces Admiral Ace Lyons to speak at a private meeting.

     
  7. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Yahoooooo-deeees are running Amreeeeka. :D
     
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  8. Kathryn Ostrow

    Kathryn Ostrow New Member

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    No one is controlling USA. There are many multiple proxies.
    1. White house
    2. Pentagon
    3. Senate
    4. Multiple free-Mason communities working against each other
    5. Capitalist millionaires and billionaires
    6. Different big organizations oil, banking, stock market and other companies.
    This complex equation results in weird results from economic slow down to not trading with China or India and imposing sanctions on Iran
     
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  9. J.A.

    J.A. Militants

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    Kapitalism and Federation is two biggest truely for United States. Then president and military power. Then the police and FBI then the people hoe living in United States. Very important to have people hoe living then jobs hoe are natural in perfect system of a nation. Just jobs are very important when United States are kapitalism. Police and FBI are important to have rules in homeland.
     
  10. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    ======

    Well!!! you can hear it from the so called POTUSES of the United States

    Dire Warnings From Past U.S. Presidents and Other High-Profile Leaders About an “Invisible Government” That Runs the U.S. With “No Allegiance To the People”

    Top: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John C Calhoun, Theodore Roosevelt; Bottom: Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D Roosevelt, John F Kennedy, Daniel K Inouye. Each of these political leaders warned about an invisible government.

    There are a lot of critics of the U.S. government these days. Admittedly, a good part of the time, I’m one of them. Some people would say that the criticism is just evidence of our jaded, modern times. Not so, my friends. Let’s take a look at what “insiders” have been saying about the American government over the past 217 years. And by “insiders” I don’t mean Capital Hill journalists or presidential aides. I’m talking about actual past presidents, vice presidents, congressmen, senators, and other high profile political leaders.

    Together, these historical leaders paint a pretty dire picture of our democracy, saying that the U.S. is under the control of an “invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people” and this “invisible government is the true ruling power in our country.”

    They go on to explain how a shadow government has been in control of the U.S. “ever since the days of Andrew Jackson” (since at least 1836). “It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.” They “virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties… It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.”

    As a result, these leaders say, “we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.”

    “The danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent… Its dissenters are silenced, not praised.” Therefore, “to destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.”

    Want to know who specifically wrote these things? Check out the list of quotes from high-level, historical leaders that I compiled below. All of the statements in this article have been verified as authentic and have associated links to their source materials.

    Historical Leaders Warn About an “Invisible Government” Running the U.S.
    The warnings listed below, which appear in chronological order, began with our first president – George Washington. The last president to speak out was JFK, who was assassinated. Read what they and other political leaders have said about the invisible government.


    George Washington

    “It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am. The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may… actually had a seperation [sic] of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned.” – George Washington, 1st President of the United States (1789–1797), from a letter that Washington wrote on October 24, 1798, which can be found in the Library of Congress. For an analysis of Washington’s warning, see the article “Library of Congress: George Washington Warns of Illuminati


    Thomas Jefferson

    “I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.” —Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States (1801–1809) and principal author of the United States Declaration of Independence (1776), in a letter written to John Taylor on May 28, 1816




    John C Calhoun

    “A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves, consisting of many and various powerful interests, combined in one mass, and held together by the cohesive power of the vast surplus in banks.” – John C. Calhoun, Vice President (1825-1832) and U.S. Senator, from a speech given on May 27, 1836

    Note that it appears that Washington’s and Jefferson’s concerns regarding bankers and separation of the people from the government was realized by 1836. This fact was confirmed in a letter written by FDR in 1933 (see below) in which he wrote that “a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” Jackson was the seventh president of the United States (1829-1937). Calhoun served as Jackson’s vice-president from 1829-1932.


    Theodore Roosevelt

    “Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.”— Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt, An Autobiography, 1913 (Appendix B)


    Woodrow Wilson

    A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men[W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized worldno longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913
    “Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913



    John F Hylan

    “The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation… The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties, … and control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government. It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.” – New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, New York Times, March 26, 1922


    Edward Bernays

    The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country… We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.” – Edward Bernays (“the father of public relations”), Propaganda, 1928 (note that Bernays’ book, Propaganda, begins with the above quote).


    Louis T McFadden


    “Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government board, has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt…Mr. Chairman, when the Federal Reserve act was passed, the people of the United States did not perceive that a world system was being set up here… and that this country was to supply financial power to an international superstate — a superstate controlled by international bankers and international industrialists acting together to enslave the world for their own pleasure.” – Congressman Louis T. McFadden, from a speech delivered to the House of Representatives on June 10, 1932



    Franklin D Roosevelt


    “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” — Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States (1933–1945), in a letter to Colonel Edward M House dated November 21, 1933, as quoted in F.D.R.: His Personal Letters, 1928-1945.


    William Jenner

    “Today the path to total dictatorship in the U.S. can be laid by strictly legal means… We have a well-organized political-action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state… It operates secretly, silently, continuously to transform our GovernmentThis ruthless power-seeking elite is a disease of our century… This group…is answerable neither to the President, the Congress, nor the courts. It is practically irremovable.” – Senator William Jenner, 1954 speech


    J. Edgar Hoover

    “The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.” —J. Edgar Hoover, The Elks Magazine, 1956


    Dwight D. Eisenhower


    “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower, 34th President of the United States,, January 1961 Speech



    John F. Kennedy

    The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings… Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe… no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of “clear and present danger,” then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent… For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.” — John F Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, from a speech delivered to the American Newspaper Publishers Association on April 27, 1961 and known as the “Secret Society” speech (click here for full transcript and audio).


    Larry P McDonald

    The Rockefellers and their allies have, for at least fifty years, been carefully following a plan to use their economic power to gain political control of first America, and then the rest of the world. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes, I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” Congressman Larry P. McDonald, November 1975, from the introduction to a book titled The Rockefeller File.

    Daniel K Inouye

    There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.” – Daniel K. Inouye, US Senator from Hawaii, testimony at the Iran Contra Hearings, 1986

    http://consciouslifenews.com/verifi...government-running-allegiance-people/1136001/
     
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  11. J.A.

    J.A. Militants

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    Goodness and first president in USA all time ?!

    :rofl:
     
  12. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Nobody has ever claimed that the US is a perfect democracy. Its has its warts just like any democracy and its own unique pathological tendencies like most big countries.

    But suggesting that there is one deep state is going a bit off the rails. Kathryn Ostrow in the post above made a good list of the power players. This list would apply to any country. The bottom line with any democracy or any form of government is that the rich and connected always have more access to the corridors of power than the poor.

    Its true in the US and its true in India and every country on this planet. if that is the standard, then you could claim a deep-state in every country !!
     
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  13. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    US is an oligarchy, not a democracy - BBC

    The US is dominated by a rich and powerful elite.

    So concludes a recent study by Princeton University Prof Martin Gilens and Northwestern University Prof Benjamin I Page.

    This is not news, you say.

    Perhaps, but the two professors have conducted exhaustive research to try to present data-driven support for this conclusion. Here's how they explain it:

    Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.

    In English: the wealthy few move policy, while the average American has little power.

    The two professors came to this conclusion after reviewing answers to 1,779 survey questions asked between 1981 and 2002 on public policy issues. They broke the responses down by income level, and then determined how often certain income levels and organised interest groups saw their policy preferences enacted.

    "A proposed policy change with low support among economically elite Americans (one-out-of-five in favour) is adopted only about 18% of the time," they write, "while a proposed change with high support (four-out-of-five in favour) is adopted about 45% of the time."

    On the other hand:

    When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organised interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favour policy change, they generally do not get it.

    They conclude:

    Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association and a widespread (if still contested) franchise. But we believe that if policymaking is dominated by powerful business organisations and a small number of affluent Americans, then America's claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened.

    Eric Zuess, writing in Counterpunch, isn't surprised by the survey's results.

    "American democracy is a sham, no matter how much it's pumped by the oligarchs who run the country (and who control the nation's "news" media)," he writes. "The US, in other words, is basically similar to Russia or most other dubious 'electoral' 'democratic' countries. We weren't formerly, but we clearly are now."

    This is the "Duh Report", says Death and Taxes magazine's Robyn Pennacchia. Maybe, she writes, Americans should just accept their fate.

    "Perhaps we ought to suck it up, admit we have a classist society and do like England where we have a House of Lords and a House of Commoners," she writes, "instead of pretending as though we all have some kind of equal opportunity here."
     
  14. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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  15. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    Let's not legitimize leftist propaganda, just to bash up the US! Running a country is not as simple as the dumb moronic leftists or left liberals project, it's much more complicated!

    I follow international leftists and every attack on non-muslims is a false flag for these bastards! Just imagine how much funds these leftist / liberals may be getting to spew such BS that too shamelessly! Overall subliminally, they tend to legitimize jihad as a socialist movement of muslims! The disastrous results of leftsist-islamist tag team is in from of us - Iran, Arab spring, ME- Israel issue etc etc where relatively egalitarian leaders where removed with islamic chaos and islamists - agenda is out in the open!
     
  16. Params7

    Params7 Regular Member

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    Trillionaire families (Rockefeller/Rothschilds) -> Bankers -> Corporations = White House.

    But what makes India so different? We are a democracy with just two parties - ran in much the same way like the U.S. where the rich elites easily buy off politicians. In fact, more so in India than in the U.S.
     
  17. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    People who have immense money and greed OR Numbers will always find ways to influence govt, whether that govt is a dictatorship or democracy. Because both types need money + support to run...

    So influence groups are in every country...
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  18. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    ISIS, Global Threats Boost US Arms Exports

    Lockheed Martin, the world’s largest defense contractor, reported strong export growth, and it’s not alone.



    A wide range of global threats posed by Islamic State militants and nations like Iran are continuing to fuel the sale of American-made arms around the world.


    Despite slower domestic sales in the U.S., the foreign market remains ripe. Lockheed Martin, the world’s largest defense contractor, reported that foreign orders made up 21 percent of the company’s $46.1 billion in 2015 sales. That’s a six percent jump in foreign sales over the previous year.

    “We continue to have growing international interest for our programs, particularly in the area of missile defense, in the Middle East, in Asia-Pacific and even in Europe,” Marillyn Hewson, chairman, president, and CEO, told analysts on Tuesday when the company reported its 2015 earnings.

    The 18-month-old bombing campaign against ISIS has driven both munition and targeting equipment sales, Hewson said. Lockheed makes the Hellfire missile, one of the weapons frequently fired from American and ally aircraft and drones. It also makes the Sniper targeting pod, a device that allows an aircraft to pinpoint buildings and track people or vehicles on the ground.

    Beyond ISIS, Middle Eastern countries have stocked up on missile defenses in fear of Iran’s ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons program. Lockheed makes a host of missile defense equipment, including THAAD and PAC-3 interceptors.


    The company is expecting a THAAD order from Qatar in 2016, Bruce Tanner, Lockheed’s executive vice president and chief financial officer, said in the call.

    “[W]e have other air and missile defense programs scattered throughout the region, but not nearly of the same size as we’re seeing in Qatar,” he said. “That’s the driver of the biggest international orders prospects as we see 2016.”

    Threats from Russia, China and North Korea might also drive the increase.

    “International demand for defense and military products is increasing as uncertainties brought on by regional tensions in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, North Korea, and the East and South China Seas may lead to increases in defense budgets,” a new Deloitte report states.

    Foreign buys of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter are also expected to pick up in the coming years as production of the warplane increases. Over the next five years, about 50 percent of F-35 orders will be from allies, Hewson said.

    Lockheed delivered 45 F-35s last year, mostly to the U.S. military. The company is expected to build 53 F-35 this year.

    Lockheed is not the only one seeing the boost overseas, according to the Deloitte report. Foreign buys of American military equipment jumped from $21.4 billion in 2010 to $46.6 billion in 2015, a 118 percent increase.


    “It is likely that this trend will continue for not only US-based defense firms, but also European and Asian firms,” the report states.

    http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2...boost-us-arms-exports/125444/?oref=d-dontmiss

    @Nuvneet Kundu , @pmaitra , @roma ,@Dark Sorrow
    @Indx TechStyle, @Sakal Gharelu Ustad
    @Razor
    @Batfan
    @Kshatriya87 @Illusive @LETHALFORCE@Bornubus @brational @blueblood,@@rock127
    and everyone else...

    ---
    Nothing sells like Fear sale..Fire Sale...
     
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  19. Nuvneet Kundu

    Nuvneet Kundu Senior Member Senior Member

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    We say that private companies are 'deriving' benefit from public institutions of democracy but the line between private and public has already been blurred in the US. Let's say in a village of 100 people, if 80% of value is created by private enterprises, if 80 people are employed by a private companies, is it not natural that they will dominate the policy making of that land? In that case, they aren't being a parasite on public money, they are only electing a government for the better management of their own money since they are the ones who have created value in that society. The government's job is just to keep the labor class pacified. The rich, upper middle class and middle class are happy with the arrangement. It's the bottom 20% who are at the risk of an 'occupy wallstreet' type of eruption. 100% of the nations internal policing duties concern with keeping this 20% under tight control.

    I am a bit reticent in criticizing them because there is no such thing as private company and public company, these are both fundamentally how people are organized but it's people nonetheless. If some model of organization of people does generate more value then why look down upon it? If Ambani and Tata create millions of new jobs tomorrow, is it not good for the nation? How much value has Indian ordnance factories created? how many jobs? Why are we so pro-PSU despite their poor performance? I see this as a remnant of Nehru's socialist indoctrination of Indian minds that we see private enterprise as evil. Nehru had absolute disdain for entrepreneurs and businessmen. He looked at them as parasites in the same way anti-semitic Europeans looked at successful Jewish businessmen. Nehru was single-handedly responsible in dismantling the privately held economic infrastructure of India to bring in nationalization and we know how well that went.

    Let's not demonize companies, these create real value, while PSU only deals with redistribution of assets created by someone else. Also consider the fact that the alternatives to private enterprises are all infinitely worse (centralization of national production > creation of PSU > union-baazi > socialism > state-sponsored doles> uncontrolled population explosion > and eventually communism). Hai tauba.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
  20. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ofcourse, pvt sectors do run nations..thats how they protect their interests.
    But
    Companies that create Values for TERRORISM?..INSTALLING democracy!!! Using terrorism as a precursor to sales pitch...
    I am reluctant to agree to that business model no matter how lucrative its for a nations economy.
     
  21. Nuvneet Kundu

    Nuvneet Kundu Senior Member Senior Member

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    Let Lockheed benefit from conflicts, that is how global enterprises work, they have no morality. Wait for a few years even our private defense industries will start selling globally. We will look like hypocrites at that time, if we criticize Lockheed now.

    There are even JVs between Indian and American companies right now which benefit from conflicts. It's not about morals. If someone can do something and derive benefit from it, they will do it. This could include engineering wars. No one is going to give us a medal for sitting back. If the whole world operates that way, we can't afford to fight with our hands behind our back. Every time America devours a nation and uses its resources to grow its economy, it gets bigger and more powerful. If we hold ourselves back due to some benign sense of morality, one day that monster of 'free market economy' would be knocking on our doors and we would be too weak to respond. Better to start learning the tricks of the trade and augment our power.

    "Shayad hum nyay ke paksh me the, lekin shakti hamare sath nahi thi, isliye itihas ne hume uski saza di"

    Listen to this, it's very insightful and painful :

     

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