When a Soldier is afraid to fight

[ajay_ijn]

not every soldier is like sunny deol shown in border or like in many other hindi war movies.
Not everyone may be happy to die for his country.

We are talking about human being after all, normal people, just like u n me. Its just that they are trained to fight. They have families, relationships, dreams, wishes which they don't want to sacrifice all those just because they are in military.

They do realise that there is risk, hardships involved but they may not realise that they have fear untill they fight.

watching his fellow soldiers getting massacred by a machine gun fire or artillery will be a frightening experience for everyone.

knowing that enemy from unknown position can kill you in a single shot and yet taking the lead in your unit to pursue him is also very frightening.

While others might think that he is too afraid, he might think its the logical thing to do and runs away for the cover when he is ordered to move forward and complete the mission or neutralize the enemy. Especially with the troops who have no experience in real battle.

How commanding officer handle this situation?
moreover how do officers decide that its worth to risk soldiers life to complete the mission and neutralize the enemy.

what if he makes one small miscalculation while figuring out risk and his whole unit gets massacred?

will he be questioned by his seniors? will it be a bad remark in his career?

 

[Ray]

not every soldier is like sunny deol shown in border or like in many other hindi war movies.
Not everyone may be happy to die for his country.

True, it is too exaggerated in the movies.

Happy to die for his country? If only he had the time to think of dying or living, when the shot and shell is falling all over. Is he scared? I would say he is worried, but then when there is people all around you, you don't feel that worried or scared, even though he is sure that there is danger all over. That is why anyone in uniform is such a God fearing person.

Further, because he is indoctrinated in believing sincerely in the value of Nam, Namak and Nishan, the fear of death gets overpowered by his patriotism for the Name, Salt and Country!

We are talking about human being after all, normal people, just like u n me. Its just that they are trained to fight. They have families, relationships, dreams, wishes which they don't want to sacrifice all those just because they are in military.

True, they are as normal as you and me. The difference is that they are trained to believe in their country, those who lead them into war and in their weapons and equipment. They are instilled with the powerful elixir - Must Win!

They do realise that there is risk, hardships involved but they may not realise that they have fear untill they fight.

Fear is a subjective phenomenon. Even when they fight, the initial fear is not fear of death, but the fear of the unknown!

watching his fellow soldiers getting massacred by a machine gun fire or artillery will be a frightening experience for everyone.

That is what makes him see red and charges up his desire to avenge!

knowing that enemy from unknown position can kill you in a single shot and yet taking the lead in your unit to pursue him is also very frightening.

What you cannot see, you cannot fear. The noise of the shot and shell worries in the beginning, but then it become routine and not that frightening. And if the bullet comes and hits you, you never know that you are dead, because you are dead!

While others might think that he is too afraid, he might think its the logical thing to do and runs away for the cover when he is ordered to move forward and complete the mission or neutralize the enemy. Especially with the troops who have no experience in real battle.

It is difficult to turn tail because too many of your friends are around you and you would be shamed for life. And then there are echelons behind you and so where will you run? It is better to go forward with the others and take your chances.

How commanding officer handle this situation?

Attacks are led by Company Commanders. The CO trains the men well and so he has nothing to worry except the outcome. There are many COs who have come to the front to motivate and rally the troops, even in attack or is always around in defence when the enemy is attacking.

moreover how do officers decide that its worth to risk soldiers life to complete the mission and neutralize the enemy.

it is not their call. War is a risk. Army life is a risk. What's new? Even troops know that. They have been given a mission and they will have to implement it, come what may.

what if he makes one small miscalculation while figuring out risk and his whole unit gets massacred?

No there can be no massacre.

Every attack has a reserve echelon. Any unit/ sub unit that has stalled, will dig in and the reserve echelon is launched, which the original gives covering fire support.

will he be questioned by his seniors? will it be a bad remark in his career?

If there is cowardice, then he is not questioned. He faces a Courtmartial and then, if found guilty of cowardice, he is sentenced with a jail term and cashiered (no gratuity and no pension).

 

[Yusuf]

Thank you Sir for that.

 

[Pintu]

Sir, I have understood, thank you Sir, as I Salute the brave sons.

Regards

 

[S.A.T.A]

@Ajay

A set of very pertinent questions...There is a valid reason why 'sacrifice' is an expression that so often associated with all martial tradition,in history or literary tradition.while sacrifice has an element of selflessness to it,there seems to significant spiritual import to this act of selflessness.When ordinary people are exposed to cultures that practice human sacrifice,the first impression they exhibit is that of horror and revulsion,then all sort of explanation is given,often laced with their inherent cultural pejoratives.

But then these 'sacrifices' despite their association with physical pain and latent cruelty,with seemingly no plausible rational benefit to the person who undergoes it or the society which venerates a person who undergoes such a sacrifice,were an integral part of many a cultures and constituted their most sacred rites of community well being.many of these cultures were,and one wouldn't have any hesitation calling them so,great civilizations accomplished in all fields of human effort that constitutes our perception of great civilized societies.

Speaking from the platform of cultural anthropology,societies that venerate soldiers and their martial spirit of of self sacrifice for the greater good of the larger society, are no different from those societies that practiced human sacrifice as a ritual for providing for social well being of their community,they both tend to operate at the same level and sacrifice is visualized upon the same principle,that they enable the well being of the lager society,which negates, to a large extent, the societies inherent revulsion for death.

The society still clings to the belief of sacrifice being an act of selflessness, worthy of respect and veneration,its this belief that motivates a soldier to be what he is(or for that matter motivate an individual to be allow himself to be sacrificed)

 

[ajay_ijn]

thanks for the replies ray sir.

Nice to see you SATA.

Further, because he is indoctrinated in believing sincerely in the value of Nam, Namak and Nishan, the fear of death gets overpowered by his patriotism for the Name, Salt and Country!

Sir, Does everyone think in this way?
aren't there any soldiers who think
"this is my job"
"I get paid for killing and winning battles for my unit or force, thats it"

That is what makes him see red and charges up his desire to avenge!

what about the cases of sudden overwhelming enemy fire. for someone who has never seen so much of blood being shed, will he think about avenge or panic watching his fellows die

it is not their call. War is a risk. Army life is a risk. What's new? Even troops know that. They have been given a mission and they will have to implement it, come what may.

Yes soldiers are willing to take the risk. i was talking about COs perspective?
what about instances where
Knowingly COs would lead their troops to high risk missions where casualities can be pretty high
will there be any guilty feeling in his mind?

"may be i could have planned it differently", "may be that was not a good idea".
"may be because of my decision making, they died".


Is there any line that officers can draw and say
"Taking anymore risk is suicidal, i knowingly cannot lead troops to this suicide mission"

I know he cannot speak that way to his senior but will it be going on in their mind?

like in kargil, when Army underestimated NLIs strength.
first Lieutenants and captains would find out that since intelligence failed to warn.

they have to convince Major n colonels that artillery n air support is definitely required to take down the positions. They are no terrorists but Pak infantry in bunkers.

Still they may not get convinced, may order Company commanders to assault the position again.

from an article on Kargil about initial assault on peaks.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/History/1999/307-Battle-For-Tololing.html

By now company and battalion commanders had realised the gravity of the situation and were trying to convince their superiors who in turn were trying to convince Delhi. This pressure caused another attack to be mounted on June 2. Unable to convince his superiors of the need to delay till adequate firepower was provided the second in command of the 18th Grenadiers Lt. Col. Vishwanathan personally led the attack. With Regimental pride under stake the men reached the top after an arduous 6 hour climb. If they chose to recover before attacking dawn would be on them so they made the choice of an immediate attack. It was a suicidal attack and was promptly cut down. Lt. Col. Vishwanathan knew he was going to die.

His last letter to his father indicated his anguish at not being able to live to his family commitments. There was shock and gloom all around. Furthermore the bodies of Adhikari and his wireless operator were still lying in the battlefield. Any attempt to recover it was met with UMG fire. Furthermore the Pakistanis booby-trapped the bodies. One jawan who tried to drag Adhikari's body away lost his hand to a booby trap. Lt. Col. Vishwanathan's death finally jarred the senior echelons of the Indian Army. Finally the army was realizing the need to get in more firepower before any assault could be made.

What you cannot see, you cannot fear. The noise of the shot and shell worries in the beginning, but then it become routine and not that frightening. And if the bullet comes and hits you, you never know that you are dead, because you are dead!

i mean to say when there are snipers hidden in buildings. and when Soldiers have to clear those buildings, they have to walk in open without an cover giving sniper an easy chance.

Its feels so vulnerable feeling "Some Sniper hidden in those houses can shoot me anytime"

there is little chance that Soldier can spot enemy sniper before sniper can get the shot. If sniper gets head shot, its over. It just feels so powerless before him.

Even if Sniper doesn't get head shot, rest of the squad will run for cover and untill they neutralize the sniper, soldier will be lying there injured .

or
in a situation where terrorists are stuck in a house or building. and Soldier is the leading the unit has to assault, entering building thinking he will be one taking first shot if the terrorist is still alive and ready for them.

No there can be no massacre.
Every attack has a reserve echelon. Any unit/ sub unit that has stalled, will dig in and the reserve echelon is launched, which the original gives covering fire support.

what if there are situations like
unit is ambushed or cut off from rest of the force, surrounded by enemy.

If there is cowardice, then he is not questioned. He faces a Courtmartial and then, if found guilty of cowardice, he is sentenced with a jail term and cashiered (no gratuity and no pension).

he has to go to jail for being a coward???


Sir i have one more doubt i wanted to ask.

what if a Commanding officer himself is incompetitive to lead the troops? which his seniors failed to find out but all the NCOs and senior jawans know that he is doing a blunder would be suicidal if he is leading the unit?

Are there any instances of NCOs or jawans reporting to even higher authority (Major, Colonel etc)that their unit CO is not fit to lead or they would not work under him.

Can NCOs suggest COs to change his ways?

In the chain of command, how much freedom officers would get to correct/suggest their seniors without being called rude or causing offense?

 

[p2prada]

@ajay

Brig Ray took a company of soldiers and charged through an open minefield while wounded.

 

[ajay_ijn]

@ajay
Brig Ray took a company of soldiers and charged through an open minefield while wounded.

wow i didn't know that. actually i was hoping he would share some experience regarding soldiers n their relationship with their commanders.

 

[Ray]

thanks for the replies ray sir.

Nice to see you SATA.


Sir, Does everyone think in this way?
aren't there any soldiers who think
"this is my job"
"I get paid for killing and winning battles for my unit or force, thats it"

I am sure they do think that it a part of my profession and of course, the country is paying me for my services. I do.

Let me also say that the respect that the Nation bestows on the soldiers, especially during wars, gives a great morale boost and it makes the soldier do more than what is expected. Take Kargil. While the soldiers wrested the occupied territory, it was made much easier because the whole Nation was behind the soldier!

Pay is not very important a motivator. What is a real motivator is when the Nation gives the soldier their due. And that makes them go for it even more determined. When the Nation bestows so much of faith in you, you cannot let the Nation down!

what about the cases of sudden overwhelming enemy fire. for someone who has never seen so much of blood being shed, will he think about avenge or panic watching his fellows die

Panic can set in for a variety of reasons, but then if the commanders are worthy of being leaders, then they can contain it. I feel that seeing your friends killed spurs you to avenge instead of getting panicky. I cannot explain the camaraderie that exists in an unit/ sub unit. It is like a family. Imagine a brother is killed by a murderer, would the other brother run away or go for that man?

Yes soldiers are willing to take the risk. i was talking about COs perspective?
what about instances where
Knowingly COs would lead their troops to high risk missions where casualities can be pretty high
will there be any guilty feeling in his mind?
"may be i could have planned it differently", "may be that was not a good idea".
"may be because of my decision making, they died".

When one goes inside the enemy area for a raid, one cannot predict the outcome. What should the CO at that time - send the people on the raid or feel that because there can be huge casualties, the raid should not be launched. No, when a task is given, it has to be done. There is no personal feelings that can come in the way.

Yes, if the CO is incompetent and does not plan well and there is a whole lot of casualties he can never live that down!

Is there any line that officers can draw and say
"Taking anymore risk is suicidal, i knowingly cannot lead troops to this suicide mission"

Then he should resign and go home.

First of all, no one is given a task that is beyond the capability of his team/ sub unit.

I know he cannot speak that way to his senior but will it be going on in their mind?

No, he can speak his mind when the task is being assigned and iron out his doubts with the one assigning him the task.

However, once the task is explained and given, then there is no going back.

like in kargil, when Army underestimated NLIs strength.
first Lieutenants and captains would find out that since intelligence failed to warn.

I have not understood as to how the enemy strength was underestimated.

If you are meaning there was overall intelligence failure, then that is true, but it affected the higher decision of war and not at the unit level as such.

If you are meaning that the Lts and Capts had to ascertain the quantum of enemy and weapons on the objective, well that is right. It is their job. Before attack, one has to 'feel the flanks' and 'fix the enemy'. It is the task of the patrols and the patrols are commanded by Lts and Capts. It is important to find out what weapons are at the objective. This is done by patrols by stealthily observing and when nothing concrete is obtained, the information is gained by fire whereupon the enemy reacts with his weapons, thus giving away the type of weapon and its location. In case, even then the enemy does not react, there may come a necessity to have a simulated attack so that the enemy is spooked to open up.

Weapons alone does not give the quantum of enemy force at the objective. It is thus essential to check the 'spread'. The 'spread' gives the type of sub unit occupying the objective.

Thus, having found out what weapons the enemy has on the objective and the spread, the attack plan is made and the quantum of force to be applied.

I hope this very rudimentary explanation explains what you are searching for.

they have to convince Major n colonels that artillery n air support is definitely required to take down the positions. They are no terrorists but Pak infantry in bunkers.

Still they may not get convinced, may order Company commanders to assault the position again

.

They don't have to convince anyone. The CO and the Bde (Brigade) Cdr would have done that for him since they are aware of the arty and air resources available to the Bde. The success of the operation is not the platoon cdrs problem alone, it is as much that of the Coy Cdr, CO and the Bde Cdr and even the Div Cdr.

from an article on Kargil about initial assault on peaks.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/History/1999/307-Battle-For-Tololing.html


i mean to say when there are snipers hidden in buildings. and when Soldiers have to clear those buildings, they have to walk in open without an cover giving sniper an easy chance.

Its feels so vulnerable feeling "Some Sniper hidden in those houses can shoot me anytime"

there is little chance that Soldier can spot enemy sniper before sniper can get the shot. If sniper gets head shot, its over. It just feels so powerless before him.

Even if Sniper doesn't get head shot, rest of the squad will run for cover and untill they neutralize the sniper, soldier will be lying there injured .

or
in a situation where terrorists are stuck in a house or building. and Soldier is the leading the unit has to assault, entering building thinking he will be one taking first shot if the terrorist is still alive and ready for them.


what if there are situations like
unit is ambushed or cut off from rest of the force, surrounded by enemy.


he has to go to jail for being a coward???


Sir i have one more doubt i wanted to ask.

what if a Commanding officer himself is incompetitive to lead the troops? which his seniors failed to find out but all the NCOs and senior jawans know that he is doing a blunder would be suicidal if he is leading the unit?

Are there any instances of NCOs or jawans reporting to even higher authority (Major, Colonel etc)that their unit CO is not fit to lead or they would not work under him.

Can NCOs suggest COs to change his ways?

In the chain of command, how much freedom officers would get to correct/suggest their seniors without being called rude or causing offense?

I will reply this later as I have to go for a few minutes. Times Now debate

 

[ajay_ijn]

I just want to mention, anything you write in here is a treasure for me. i am very thankful that you are answering all of queries, no matter how stupid they seem. unlike the rest of us, you are the only one who has been there to tell us.

otherwise its only television or films or books . there is always this "other side of soldiers"- "minor details, personal feelings, thoughts, relationships between men" i wanted to explore which are probably never discussed or depicted in fiction.

Let me also say that the respect that the Nation bestows on the soldiers, especially during wars, gives a great morale boost and it makes the soldier do more than what is expected. Take Kargil. While the soldiers wrested the occupied territory, it was made much easier because the whole Nation was behind the soldier!

100% agree with that. Nation will have patriotism boost during that period. entire country will be behind its soldiers.

Panic can set in for a variety of reasons, but then if the commanders are worthy of being leaders, then they can contain it. I feel that seeing your friends killed spurs you to avenge instead of getting panicky. I cannot explain the camaraderie that exists in an unit/ sub unit. It is like a family. Imagine a brother is killed by a murderer, would the other brother run away or go for that man?

sir, may be your right.
what i actually want is your personal experiences with these of kind incidences.

what you had to say to young, newly joined soldiers in your unit if they are worriedly staring at the bodies of other Soldiers (KIA) covered with blood, badly disfigured? or badly injured soldiers being carried on stretcher screaming in pain
i am sorry if i am being too specific but for new and inexperienced troops this could come as an emotional shock.

they would get used to it eventually but how would commander initially ease them into this.

i don't want to be too personal
but what went through your mind when you first saw a soldiers body KIA?

I have not understood as to how the enemy strength was underestimated.

If you are meaning there was overall intelligence failure, then that is true, but it affected the higher decision of war and not at the unit level as such.

If you are meaning that the Lts and Capts had to ascertain the quantum of enemy and weapons on the objective, well that is right. It is their job. Before attack, one has to 'feel the flanks' and 'fix the enemy'. It is the task of the patrols and the patrols are commanded by Lts and Capts. It is important to find out what weapons are at the objective. This is done by patrols by stealthily observing and when nothing concrete is obtained, the information is gained by fire whereupon the enemy reacts with his weapons, thus giving away the type of weapon and its location. In case, even then the enemy does not react, there may come a necessity to have a simulated attack so that the enemy is spooked to open up.

Weapons alone does not give the quantum of enemy force at the objective. It is thus essential to check the 'spread'. The 'spread' gives the type of sub unit occupying the objective.

Thus, having found out what weapons the enemy has on the objective and the spread, the attack plan is made and the quantum of force to be applied.

I hope this very rudimentary explanation explains what you are searching for.

Sir what i meant was
when first kargil was thought as intrusion by mujahideens holding peaks. IA didn't expect mortars, machine gun, bunkers. It only became clear after first battalions were sent for assault and were beaten with heavy causalities. Then Army had to start amassing artillery in big numbers.

but would commanders at divisional level force Battalion COs to assault peaks without adequate fire support despite previous getting company beaten and being cautioned about difficulties of unprepared soldiers scaling mountains facing heavy fire resulting in high causalities. '

Division commanders would inturn have to discuss with Army HQ for using Arty or getting air support?

and doesn't Army HQ has to convince babus that this is no skirmish with mujahideens or pakistan border troops
Army has to use mass artillery and request for air support. mobilize all the troops to the border, prepare for full scale war with pakistan.

But untill all that happens Company & Battalion commanders would have one lingering question
"why not wait for the artillery to be properly deployed?".
"why rush men into the combat in such difficult conditions?"

 

[ajay_ijn]

It is difficult to turn tail because too many of your friends are around you and you would be shamed for life. And then there are echelons behind you and so where will you run? It is better to go forward with the others and take your chances.

Sir, is it possible that some soldiers deliberately suppress their feeling of fear as he will be ashamed for life if he reveals to his soldiers that he is frightened and want to run away from there. May be he will share it with close friends in his unit or suffer alone.
for outside world he is daring soldier like everyone else. but while alone, he is just too frightened n confused watchin everything in war.

i just feel that there will be some soldiers who indeed have feelings of fear at some point of time. But just cannot express it to anyone. Society, Institution, Nation will never accept it, they will lose respect from everyone. Its probably the other side of soldiers outsiders never get to see.

Even after retiring from service, nobody expects them to say "at times i was too afraid when bullets were flying all over, not knowing which one will hit me, i wanted to run away from there, i hated wars but could never reveal as i will be accused of cowardice"

In public minds, Soldiers are symbols of bravery, Heroes of country. There just cannot be a coward soldier.

every person is embarrassed to admit that they fear simple things but its much more than embarrassment for soldiers. Dignity, respect is lost, they will be humiliated.

 

[Ray]

ajay-ijn

Initially, in Kargil, one did not know what was the force that had infiltrated and where they were located.


However, the probing through patrols started to reveal the locations.


In Kargil, there were no buildings. Whether it is buildings or anywhere, the technique is 'Fire and Move' and 'One foot on the ground'. This means that while one group moves, the other gives fire support to keep 'the enemy's head down'. Of course, the enemy will still fire, but since he will also be under fire, the enemy will not be able to bring down aimed fire and in this situation, the group that is moving moves to undertake its task. Once the task is done, the fire support group joins them.


In war, no soldier feels that the area is totally sanitised of enemy fire. That risk is accepted and taken. However, to ensure that one is not caught in the open, one makes dexterous use of the ground and its fold, nooks and cranny so that he is shielded from enemy fire.


Snipers would be wasting time and ammunition if they went for soldiers since that would give away his position and thereby invite fire on him. The sniper's target would be the commander of that group since once the commander is down, it takes time for the next to take charge. It also affects the morale. The way to recognise a Commander is that he will be moving with the Radio operator, who will be distinguishable because of his Radio Set and the aerial.


A soldier does not enter a room or a building straight away. He chuck a grenade, then sprays the room with fire. Then he enters and when he enters he is covered by another soldier.


If a CO is incompetent, then the system of promotion is flawed. Just too bad for all! Even a wrong order if executed with grit will have success but not so a fantastic plan executed in a lacklustre manner with grit and go.


No, I have not heard of a NCO reporting to the Bde Cdr that his Coy Cdr and his CO are nitwits. I can assure you that even if nitwits became officers, their training would lick them into shape to be leaders and commanders.

In the chain of command, when a plan is made and presented, the last word as a drill is = Koi shak (Any doubts). Therefore, one is free to raise his doubts and have them clarified to his heart's content.

As I said earlier, whether you are a Young soldier or an old one, you have no time to think about gory sights of the dead and dying. When anyone is shot, they are immediately attended to, time permitting and if time do not permit, immediately after accomplishing the task.


It is when one has time to think, do these gory sights make an impression. It steels the man further to remember all the lessons taught of minor tactics and how to kill the enemy without being killed.


When I saw the first bodies KIA, I felt sad. Lt Col Vishwanath of the Grenadiers was my own Staff Officer when I was a Battalion Commander in the NDA. I remembered the good old days and all I felt that a very good, promising, upright officer was no more. It was a body blow for me!


What is adequate fire support? Whatever was there was used. When there is overwhelming fire support, one can take on many objectives at one time. If there is no overwhelming fire support, one has to phase the attack, so that there is adequate and even overwhelming fire support for each phase.


I would like to mention that arty or air is not very effective on mountain tops. Arty is an area weapon and the top is a very small piece of ground. Therefore, some shots fall over and some fall short. To offset this, more ammunition is used so that the requisite amount of ammunition lands on top. It also means a massive res-supply requirement. As the air support was ineffective, PGMs had to be used.


In so far as your example of wanting to wait till more arty builds up, the Coy Cdr or anyone of that rank is well aware that the Div Arty has 'x' number of regt and that plans are made on the integral resources and anything extra is a bonus.


I presume all are afraid. But I would qualify that it is not because one can die, but because of the unknown. It is like the bridegroom and the bride having butterflies in the stomach on the wedding day. And once one moves across the Start Line, one is only consumed by the desire to achieve the aim of capturing the objective. Since own buddies are along, there is less feeling of fear.

Well if some soldiers have fear but don't express it out of shame, then that is good. If he expresses, then it can set a panic in the ranks. That would not be good. Hence, before an attack, a whole lot of pep talk is given to shore up the courage.


.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Pay is not very important a motivator. What is a real motivator is when the Nation gives the soldier their due. And that makes them go for it even more determined. When the Nation bestows so much of faith in you, you cannot let the Nation down!

Something I must say, Adding to your statement Sir, When we are in the place and we know abt objectives, nothing comes to mind except to get the Job done and go back home, Payment is least of our thinking, Noting is better than your home and the bed you sleep on..

 

[ajay_ijn]

very thanks for the replies sir. I learnt lot of new things.

few more questions sir
a company commander has failed in his mission with high causalities despite all the plausibility of success.
Battalion CO is frustrated because of him.

all the other companies of Battalion are also deployed elsewhere in their missions. and they cannot be reassigned to this particular mission.

Battalion CO orders him to take up the mission again, but he fails again.

what Battalion CO can do?
Can he reassign him to admin duty at Battalion HQ and immediately promote a capable lieutenant to lead the company?
or can he demote him?

assuming Battalion CO himself lead the men into mission and he completed it.

what happens after the war?

what if it was found that company CO was negligent resulting in failure of the mission,
what will be action taken against him, who takes the action?

i am assuming he will be relieved to administration or training duties.

we always get to read success tales of bravery for which medals are being awarded but what about missions which couldn't succeed because of commanding officer.

i am not sure how the reporting system works
Do every mission assigned to Companies, Battalions and Regiments has to be recorded in files, mission details, results?
Do the commanders need to write detailed report of the mission after the war, every time he ordered his men to move forward, deploy them into positions, plan the assault, any casualties and why it may have happened, any deviations from standard procedure and tactics.

Is there any confidential performance report system where in Senior commanders have to report how his officers have performed?

i don't know if you can discuss it here or not but one above poster was saying that you participated in front line combat leading troops despite injury?, is it possible of you can give more details. just any information you provide will be invaluable for us. during all our discussion, the one thing i was eager to read was your experience back from the force, something which you would add in your memoirs. just anything.

 

[Vladimir79]

not every soldier is like sunny deol shown in border or like in many other hindi war movies.
Not everyone may be happy to die for his country.

Putting on a uniform means you accept the possibility that may happen.

We are talking about human being after all, normal people, just like u n me. Its just that they are trained to fight. They have families, relationships, dreams, wishes which they don't want to sacrifice all those just because they are in military.

So you can't have families, relationships, dreams and wishes in the military? If you have another dream, then don't join the military.

They do realise that there is risk, hardships involved but they may not realise that they have fear untill they fight.

Everyone is afraid of dying, if they are not they messed in the head. Fear on the battlefield is a healthy thing as it keeps you from doing stupid things. The trick is to control that fear so you can get the job done. Many people cannot which is why they are given desk jobs when they fail the psychological evaluation.

watching his fellow soldiers getting massacred by a machine gun fire or artillery will be a frightening experience for everyone.

Obviously...

knowing that enemy from unknown position can kill you in a single shot and yet taking the lead in your unit to pursue him is also very frightening.

That is why there is a thing called infantry squad tactics. You aren't blindly charging a machine gun nest or some other movie shit like that. You flank, lay cover fire, start diversions and a host of other things as part of your training to come out alive.

While others might think that he is too afraid, he might think its the logical thing to do and runs away for the cover when he is ordered to move forward and complete the mission or neutralize the enemy. Especially with the troops who have no experience in real battle.

The logical thing to do is obey your orders. Don't think... just do. Running away in the Russian army is more painful than running into a hail of bullets. If you have a good sergeant, you will follow him to the ends of the earth.

How commanding officer handle this situation?
moreover how do officers decide that its worth to risk soldiers life to complete the mission and neutralize the enemy.

It is called risk assessment. Some targets are so important it is very little, others not worth the risk.

what if he makes one small miscalculation while figuring out risk and his whole unit gets massacred?

Then he dies with them if the "whole unit" is massacred.

will he be questioned by his seniors? will it be a bad remark in his career?

A field officer who gets his unit wiped out is going to bitching about the general officer that sent them to their death. He doesn't make the decision of the mission, just commanding his men in carrying it out.

 

[p2prada]

@Vlad

Welcome back. I hope you found the negotiator job you were looking for.

I have a couple of questions. Am I right in assuming you belonged to the VDV? So, is there anything you can tell us about the survival tactics of the VDV behind enemy lines? You guys are separated from your commanders initially. So how do you regroup and secure objectives?

 

[ajay_ijn]

It is when one has time to think, do these gory sights make an impression. It steels the man further to remember all the lessons taught of minor tactics and how to kill the enemy without being killed.

i didn't realise sir that worry of death might remind soldiers of their previous lessons and training they received to survive..
makes lot of sense for all that training from day one of joining military.

thanks for the replies Vladimir sir. never thought Russian ex-servicemen would be answering my questions.

A field officer who gets his unit wiped out is going to bitching about the general officer that sent them to their death. He doesn't make the decision of the mission, just commanding his men in carrying it out.

So if the general officer is responsible, then how will this effect his career?, do fellow officers make him feel guilty that because of his decision making, there were so many causalities?
there will be causalities in war, but unusually high numbers would mean something is wrong with planning or execution.

besides sir,
field officer may also make mistakes while leading his men to combat regarding squad tactics or may be some negligence due to which there are high causalities.

It is called risk assessment. Some targets are so important it is very little, others not worth the risk.

and what if company commander disagrees with risk assessment of his senior, battalion CO in a particular mission when Battalion CO is briefing on the mission.

Company CO is not convinced even after lengthy discussion with his higher officer.
what can he do?

Everyone is afraid of dying, if they are not they messed in the head. Fear on the battlefield is a healthy thing as it keeps you from doing stupid things. The trick is to control that fear so you can get the job done. Many people cannot which is why they are given desk jobs when they fail the psychological evaluation.

Sir do soldiers openly talk about fears? atleast with their close friends?,

you mentioned psychological evaluation. how is that carried out sir?
some fears may not come out untill and unless they are in battlefield. A Soldier may be inspired by his commander speech before going to battlefield or all the courage instilled to him by patriotic feelings, would just make the soldier forget his fears.

But right in that battlefield, if something goes wrong and gets nasty surprises from the enemy. everything will be chaos and confusion.

screams of the fellow soldiers, deaths, blood everywhere, shells pounding, bullets flying

at that time unknown fears can just overpower all the courage soldier has.

what if Soldier simply freezes as he is in state of mental shock.

 

[pmaitra]

While I do not have any experience of fighting a war, there is one book, which is quite famous, that I would recommend to all. The book is All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque. It gives a very good description of what thoughts play around in the mind of a soldier.

Another movie that one could possibly try and see is Als der Krieg nach Deutschland kam. I wonder if it is easy to get one with English subtitles.

 

[Ray]

ajay,

The gist of miltiary discipline lies in this poem.

The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson

1.

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

2.

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

3.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

4.

Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

5.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

6.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.

 

[ajay_ijn]

While I do not have any experience of fighting a war, there is one book, which is quite famous, that I would recommend to all. The book is All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque. It gives a very good description of what thoughts play around in the mind of a soldier.
Another movie that one could possibly try and see is Als der Krieg nach Deutschland kam. I wonder if it is easy to get one with English subtitles.

thanks a ton mate. I was reading the books plot on wiki. very relevant to the discussion here.