what should INS Arihant Captain do if he faced "Crimson Tide" Situation

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by ajay_ijn, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    Its a serious tense situation with China (something like Cuban missile crisis). Ballistic Missiles are kept standby for launch, fighters with nuclear weapons are ready to fly anytime. entire military is deployed for conventional war.

    INS Arihant is also ready to launch all its missiles from its deployed position to major cities like Beijing, Shangai etc.

    Politicians decide to go with first strike. Arihant Crew or Captain is aware that China had already launched invasion into arunachal and despite being warnings is not withdrawing back. But international pressure on China is relentless and talks are still going for ceasefire and withdraw.

    Arihant gets order to fire all its missiles at designated targets, codes are also sent to Captain. As they prepare the missiles, they get another message and just then communications broke down, message is interuppted due to problem with the equipment and worse they are under attack from Chinese SSN, the escorting INS XYZ SSN destroys the PLAN Sub but Arihant captain knows they are being hunted by chinese warships and submarines and they might be spotted some or the other time.

    Now what should he do?
    wait for equipment to be repaired and risk getting spotted by PLAN

    or

    launch all their missiles
     
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  3. prahladh

    prahladh Respected Member

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    If it was Pak then I would launch all missiles but I would wait for orders if it were China after looking at the size of target and the yield our nukes can produce.
     
  4. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    If there is already an accompanying SSN, then it will not pose much problems in communications.

    Lastly, that's the difference between a SSBN captain and us mere mortals. We cannot take such decisions.
     
  5. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Indian Navy only operates her, but she is under direct PM Control. Unlike Crimson Tide ie 1990'; Communication Tech and surviablity has also gone up. Fill up the IOR with Communcation equipment and sensors
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Nuclear weapons release has to be only after a confirmed authentication and orders. No half measures in that.
    But I think we can apply this to China. If it was the Palistanis, then the broken down message surely would be Taliban taken over Rawalpindi and in possession of nuke tipped birds which are being fuelled. Fire all missiles at once and come back to get more.
     
  7. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    u fire all N-weapons , their wouldnt be Pak at all, come home freely with release of pressure that u dont 1 foe in future for army dont take such burden in future.
     
  8. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    that was great movie............. crimson tide...... i love everymovement of it.......

    if we are up against china, what should sub commander will do, he will follow order to fire, if controry is not given to him..........

    that is what they are trainned to do and that is what they should do if a massage comes from PM through his high command.

    But this situation will not arise as the NCA will not give orders unless it is very very edge of situation where we are face will 100% nuclear wapons attack...... once that order is given it has to be executed that is how these men will be trainned to do...... they will under go psychological test at regular intervels......

    missile like agni and other land base surface to surface missile can be made to self distruct at the very last movement, i cannot say the same for subs fired missile as their is less chance of any link with sub once the missile is out of the sea towards its target.

    ofcourse target like Beijing and shanghai are very well protected from any nuclear missle attack by S-300 missiles therefore commander has to fire all of this missile at these targets.....
     
  9. indian_sukhoi

    indian_sukhoi Regular Member

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    Before we discuss this topic,.......lets just maintain this discussions for fun. Just dont try to jump off topic.

    Nothing better than boys with really big toys.:2guns:

    My point of view, The Commander should quicky change his position and avoid detection has much has time he can. Prefer, wait for equipment to be repaired and risk getting spotted by PLAN.

    This is the worst scenerio ever for a Commander struggling between right and wrong. Nuclear exchange and the deaths of billions hang in the balance. You dont want to become the responsible for the Third World War and deaths of millions on people.
    Imagine,....No one will take the decision to launch.



    There is nothing more harder than the responsibility for the nuclear SLBMs
    If i was in the commander place, I would get a heart attack or loose my mind. I will ask Denzel Washington to take over the command of the Boat.
     
  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I would call you a traitor and shoot you in the head before taking command.:2guns::sarcastic:
     
  11. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    whats is the possible procedure to launch nuclear weapon in a submarine or a missile battery? who authenticates what?

    Is it technically possible for commander of submarine or missile unit or sqn to use nuclear weapon without NCA providing them codes etc?
     
  12. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    In case of Pakistan, Arihant Captain wouldn't as much tense as Indian ground based missiles and fighters can suvive when Pak strikes and survive for counterattack. but when it comes China, their large missile arsenal would make it difficult for India.
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    First of all the nuclear command structure for the submarine has to be worked out. For starters the way we keep our nukes will change. Right now the weapons and launch vehicle is kept separate. We are not on a hair trigger alert. But for the Arihant the missiles will be tipped with nukes ready to launch.

    We font know how the nuclear command works here apart from the fact thatbthe PM issues the orders. But fo we also have the same secret coding like the US to prevent UA launch?

    But as in the movie it would be a great dilemma for the captain of the boat to take a decision. Both the Captain and his XO were right in their own way.
     
  14. indian_sukhoi

    indian_sukhoi Regular Member

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    Could we move the topic to Navy Forum,......We can have a more mature over there
     
  15. MitMeister

    MitMeister New Member

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    Politicians decide to go with first strike


    That would be the dumbest thing our Politicians can think of.. No First Use policy is written and maintained by INDIA.


    Thinking of NUKES and Launch Orders, I'll fire only if the Launch order is maintained. Dude you cant kill millions for just invading Arunachal Pradesh. Nukes will be sought if we stand to lose whole state of Arunachal and enemy is marching forward towards Assam etc. First we fight like men, conventional means, kick their ass :2guns: and come back and live :l_kiss: to tell about it..
     
  16. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    This scenario isn't about conventional. Nuclear war may have already started, India & China might be already be exchanging nukes.

    if INS Arihant doesn't react even then, then why is INS Arihant actually made for? why it exists?

    it is for detterance but what should we do exactly when detterance fails?

    sometimes I think, these cold war scenarios of exchanging megaton nukes over each other cities? is this is really practical? can we even or leaders think about rationally even in the worst case scenarios?

    a more possible scenario is launching subkiloton nukes on military bases to destroy enemys ability wage nuclear as well as conventional war. that would cause much less damage and would definitely not be threat to very survival of the nation.

    may be the very talk of attacking cities would frighten the enemy and that provides us the detterance? is that the main intention?
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Off course deterrence is the intention. That's why we need this sub. Difficult to detect and track. Enemy knows it can't even think of a first strike. They know thru can't take out all our nukes in a crippling first strike.
     
  18. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    in the movie submarine crew are being informed about political situation in russia and probably even the strategy.

    Is it necessary for Submarine captain to be aware of all this before taking actions? is information on war strategy and political situation necessary to take decisions?
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I think knowing the political ingormation would form a crucial in any decision making process. China for instance has a stable political system where we know the power centers are. But the same can't be said of Pakistan where though their might be a garb of civilian leadership, but it's the army which calls the shots.
     
  20. MMuthu

    MMuthu Regular Member

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    The main difference between US and India is..... US have more than one Nuclear Attack Submarine, and they do have ICBM. If one of the NS does not fire, the next NS will fire a Missile or land based ICBM will be fired.

    Condition like this for India will be more crucial.
     
  21. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    i watching the movie, Captain and the second-in-command arguing over missile launch. Even after having so many set of rules and chain of command, there are so many complications with nuclear weapons, it does take lot of guts to order a first strike against our enemy.
     

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