What is "Mid Class" in your country?!

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by badguy2000, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    "Mid Class" is a very vague term. its defination varies much in different countries.

    In China, "Mid Class" usually means :
    In fact, according to the above criterion, only 100-200 million CHinese can be tagged as " Mid Class" at most, I think.

    However, there are lots of "potential mid class" in China. Those "potential mid class" has decent jobs and income while still has their own real assets.
    Those CHinese "potential mid class" mostly are those young well-educated white-collars. I am one of them. I am sure that I will own 2 real assets at least when I retire,althouh I still has only one and own banks lots of debts now.iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii


    so ,guy, how about the difination of "mid class" in your country?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
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  3. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Frankly a bit shocked by your criteria of Mid Class in China
    if Rupee47/US$ (am I correct) I don't think 100-200 million CHinese (even inclusive of dependants) can be above your bar.

    Man, 700k ruppee=usd14.9k =rmb102k that's pretty much per HOUSEHOLD per annum!!

    to be straightforward there's not that big a 'Mid Class' in China!!! Learn more geography and look at the map, China being so vast covering Sichuan, Gansu, Guizhou......... Put your feet on the ground pls!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  4. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Middle Class, I presume is defined by economists. Someone who owns particular objects, has a particular asset base and who has particular annual or otherwise income.
     
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Good roti, kapda aur makan would make our mid class here. In india we have lower mid class, mid class and upper mid class. Hell we have people earning 10 million rupees a year call themselves mid class. So pretty much half the population of india is mid class.
     
  6. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    for your refence:

    The Pearl Delta(42 million population), Yangtzi Delta(75 million population) and Beijing-Tianjin metropolis-belt(25 million Population) all have a per capital nominal GDP of 10K+ USD.
    Plus other small advanced industrialized areas, I think that at least 200 million Chinese live in the areas with a 10K+ per capital nominal GDP.

    Generally speaking, avearage salary= per capital nominal GDP*70%

    In china, both husbands and wives have jobs. So. the average yearly family income of those 200 million Chinese (Peral Detal,Yangzi Delta ,Beijing-Tian Metropolis and other small industrialized areas) =20K USD*70%=14K USD=95 K RMB=665K Rupees.

    BTW, "Mid Class" in CHinese is "中产阶级“, which mean is more closer to " Upper mid Class" in India.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  7. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    My mom and dad both earning 30k Rs. per month in Public sector. I was earning 25k Rs as attending consultant(2 years experience) my wife 20k as RMO both private hospital. we have a maruti zen car, a double storey ( brick and concrete) house covering 300 yards and 700 open land. We are 4 person in household and most of my relatives have same kind of annual household income and assets. Just 10 years back we were all low mid family but things have changed very fast. My sister in law and her husband both are MBA working in Chandigarh and earning more then 60k per month each(3 years experience). According to my dad a family of 5 earning 40k per month is typical mid family and can survive well in India, he also tells me there is no limit of expenditure, rest and sleep :).

    3 years old:
    http://trak.in/tags/business/2007/09/13/indian-income-earnings/

     
  8. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    The definition of middle class varies by country and by circumstances.

    In India, now cars are common enough in middle class homes, it was not so a decade back.

    I think rather some arbitary number of real estate or family income, it is the ability of the family to live decently well, educate the children well and have decent healthcare is what should count as middle class.

    The cost of living again comes into the picture as well and by that measure, within India middle class incomes would be different in rural and urban areas.

    The numbers of middle class Indians is hazy and differ widely in various reports. I would say we have about 300-400 million Indian who could classify as middle class based on this criteria.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  9. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    Even in different areas of China, the Criterion of "mid class" varies much,because life cost varies much .

    In Chinese Grade A cities such as Beijing ,Shanghai and SHenzhen , a yearly income of 200K RMB(1400K Rupees) can not make a a typical CHinese family (husband,wife and one kid) become "Mid class"

    However, if you live in inland CHina, a yearly income of 100K RMB(700k Rupees) is enough to make a typical CHinese family (husband,wife and one kid) live a "mid-class" life.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  10. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    india's upper class = USA's middle class.
     
  11. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    In India, the consumption levels are much lower compared to the West. We have less needs and can make do with less money.

    As an example, a typical Indian home uses 1/4 to 1/6 of the energy of a typical US home. We have less electrical appliances. The lifestyle is different compared to the West.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    I guess u miss a 0 i.e. it shall read 100K RMB, and similarly 200K for Beijing etc. Otherwise 1 car+2 homes totally out of the question.

    One thing is worth noting - the soaring property/asset price, in Beijing Shanghai or SZ now probably at 20-30k/sqm downtown, which likely 'enslave' lots of would-be middle class by engulfing a huge portion of their wealth. And consequently many of them actually count on parents' saving to sustain their life quality.

    Besides by reading hit&run's post I feel Indian Mid Class possibly enjoy a far cozier life than Chinese counterparts. China's so-called Mid Class (even by BadG's standard of income++ threshold) seems exposed to much more stress and pressure. Relatively speaking Chinese folks are more 'materialism' putting more emphasis on material comfort. And my perception is that China is kind of an oval-shaped society with both high-end and low-end of the populace much smaller in size nurtured in 'socialist' traditions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  13. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    it is how a typical "Mid Class" CHinese famliy live a life:

    1. live in small communities called " Xiaoqu".In a typical "Xiaoqu" ,there are usually shops ,parks , playing grounds and even banks.
    it is a typical Chinese "Xiaoqu",where most CHinese "mid Class" live.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    2.the house of a typical CHinese "mid class"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  14. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well,

    I think India rich people live a cozier life than CHinese rich people while India's poor people live a harder life than CHinese poor people.

    Besides, Chinese society is more open to lower class than India society.
    Poor CHinese have more chance to rise to higher class than poor Indians.

    As a whole, Chinese society is more "industrialized" than Indian society. It means that CHinese society has faster life rhythems and is more "punctual" than Indian society. It also means that People have more industry disciplines to abide by.

    So, oridnary Chinese should be exposed to much more stress and pressues than ordinary Indians.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  15. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    These are broad generalizations. Not true at all.

    Chinese poor "have more chance" only because China has been growing faster than India in the last few decades. Not because Indian poor are prevented from rising.

    In fact, I personally know so many successful people from very humble background. Millions of people are getting opportunities as the economy is growing.

    Just to give few examples, Narayan Murthy (the billionaire ex chief of Infosys could not afford his education in IIT), the head of the chandrayan moon mission was from a poor village family and so on. There are countless such examples.

    The industrialization of China is a very recent phenomenon. Don't let it go to your head too much.
     
  16. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    two examples for you:

    Generally Speaking, most Chinese believe that nothing is destined and believe that life can be changed during this life,as long as they work hard enough. Just as a famous old CHinese saying shows, "Nobody is destined to be more noble than others"


    However, most Indian believe in "Samsara" and accept that their life might be "destined". India's lower class such as dirvers and "bhangi" already take it granted that they are "inferior to " upper classes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  17. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    What you mention is a different issue. People here may be more conscious of "social status" and may consider some occupations as lower in social strata.

    Nothing to do with your earlier comment:


    The richest Indians now are the Ambanis. Dhiru Bhai Ambani used to work as a petrol pump attendant.

    Anyway let's not digress into social issues on this thread.
     
  18. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    I believe we have gone through this before. The 'measures' of evaluating middle-class size are widely divergent among economists, but to give you a (now somewhat dated) definition, As of 2005, the median household income in India was about R.68,800 per year*, which at an exchange rate of 46.13 to the dollar (today's ex. rate, but about which it has remained relatively consistent since November 2009), equals $1,495 per year. Our economists define the middle class as earning between 75% and 125% of that median income. Typically, an Indian middle class family owns (at least) one four-wheeled vehicle, with a typical additional two-wheeler for the college-going daughter or son, employs a servant, fully owns an (annutized) apartment, owns considerable gold, is high consumption and has a declining savings rate of approx. 28% of annual income.

    The 'average' Indian middle class lives in buildings like these:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The 'mid-upper' middle class lives in buildings like this:

    [​IMG]

    That is the Nerul 'burb of Navi Mumbai, btw.

    And the 'lower middle class' lives in buildings (chawls) like these:

    [​IMG]

    This is your typical 'average' middle class kitchen:

    [​IMG]

    And your 'upper' middle class kitchen:

    [​IMG]


    (*Average annual per-capita incomes have more than doubled in the last 7 years.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  19. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Chinese society was highly hierarchical in ancient times. Let's not get into that in this thread.

    Just stick to the "mid class" and what it means in India and China.
     
  20. BloodRed

    BloodRed Regular Member

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    This thread is funny, maoist state propaganda being presented as unquestionable truth, rich and low class workers living in harmony clap there is no class divide in china iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ramblings of marxist author pallavi iyer on indian society presented as the truth clap India has PM who was low class professor who led and still leads a frugal lifestyle while my chinese friend once told me Hu Jintao was from one of those aristocratic family which ruled china, and yet we are told china doesnt have a class problem. clap
     
  21. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    haha, I especially like that pic. of a kind mother in the kitchen who reminds me of Chinese mom. in numbers i.e.
    $1.495/year isn't much per household. but obviously if converted by PPP exchange rate that $$ is hopefully far bigger (I don't know that rate yet). Tell me what's the %% of Mid Class in Ind society.

    Other observations according to pics only
    - Indians seem to like to decorate their houses colorful. a bit messy at the first glimpse (the ground and houses squeezed together) - no offensive
    - Ordinary (average or lower) Chinese 'mid class' mostly live in apartments instead of owning a 'house'. In this regard the Upper/Avg. indian homes look far bigger (assume Ind. family size is bigger averagely)
    - your coverage of Mid Class is far broader (Upper, Avg., Lower). Probably only Upper/Avg. corresponds to Chinese concept of Mid Class
    - in the kitchen much less elec. appliances than Chinese
     

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