What if we had to choose between MBT's.

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Atul, Oct 23, 2009.

  1. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    Was the Choice of T-90 a Right one?

    Were other options worth a Second look?

    Here in, this Thread, we would discuss about other MBT's vis-a-viz the T-90.

    Here in is the List of MBT's:
    Merkava_mk4
    [​IMG]

    Leclerc
    [​IMG]

    Leopard_2a6
    [​IMG]

    Challenger_2
    [​IMG]

    M1a1_Abrams
    [​IMG]
    ===============================================
    Please Comment on how Our Very own Bhishma stands against the ones stated above & if it is indeed the right choice.


    Some info about the Bhishma:
    T-90 Bhishma or Bheeshma. It is a license-built variant in service with the Indian army. It lacks Shtora countermeasures system, but retains the 9K119 Reflex ATGM capability. It is also powered by the 1000 hp diesel engine.:vehicle_tanke:
     
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  3. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    I'm british so i may seem biased but i would choose the challenger 2 . Having spoken to friend's who served in our armed forces,they are adament the challenger is the best tank in the world bar none.

    During the gulf war 1 the challenger was a star performer,even the american's were impressed by its performance .
     
  4. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Leopard 2A6, Challenger 2, and M1A2 Abrams are superior to [the vanilla] T90, beyond doubt. The question is viability. T90 is already indigenously made, and it's also getting its share of modernizations. T90M being a good example. When we can make larger quantities of T90(M) locally, why import the more expensive M1A2 or Challenger2? Money saved is better spent in increasing the quantities.
     
  5. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    the Question here is since Russia is turning out to be a Non-Reliable partner for supplies, would it had been better had we opted some other MBT.
     
  6. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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  7. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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  8. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    I think purchase of MBTs (and supplies / spares / tech. assistance / training) is less viable than further development and indigenisation of T90. Now that India is making its own T90s under license(?) from the Russians, our indegenisation (manufacture of complex equipment, components, and munition) should only proceed forward. Setting up new channels for purchase of MBTs from EU, Israel, and US is only going to be an expenditure. For once we must give our developers some canvas. Despite three decades in development, Arjun, for example, has shown that all our developers need is some canvas.
     
  9. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    Dear Tarun,

    my Question is prior to the purchase of T-90 had we got the options then what? which one of the listed is the best & why?
     
  10. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    There's no telling how reliable a military partner remains in the long run. One mistake our policy makers have made is that there has not been a single country with which we have had the kind of defense procurement ties we have had with the Soviets/Russians, until recently. Conversely, replacing the Russians with partners we're unfamiliar with isn't a good choice either.

    But if I were to choose among those MBTs, I would choose the Leclerc for its comparatively low unit cost, unclassified armour (helps us make our own shards), 1500 hp engine, decent ~500 km range, and the fact that we've had reasonably good defense equipment ties with France, (during the time when T90 was being purchased)
     
  11. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    if you go by the present i would go for arjun. but because your following-

    i would have gone for Leclerc. why? because of this-

    Arjun MBT weight implications | Frontier India Strategic and Defence - News, Analysis, Opinion - Aviation, Military, Commodity, Energy, Transportation, Conflict, Environment, Intelligence, Internal Security

    checkout the comparison table in the report.
     
  12. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    one of the reason IA is going for T90 is that it can resist the radiation levels of nuclear explosion.
     
  13. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    The IA needed a tank that could be inducted in large no's at a relatively modest cost, we had already operated the T series for quite some time (since the T-55)and hence we decided to go for the T series, simple economics that's it!

    If the IA had an unlimited budget and could choose any tank i believe it would have gone in for either the M1A2 T.U.S.K or the Leopard 2a6, But it did not so the best that could be bought was bought.
     
  14. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    america would not give TOT with abhrams , T-90s is the best tank in the world
     
  15. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    Skumar, NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) protection is one of the most basic features of all modern MBTs, and even APCs and IFV today. All the other tanks mentioned above can do that as well.

    :swtf:
     
  16. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Dear Mr Singh,
    please elaborate as to how you have come to that conclusion
    q1.does the T-90 provide better safety than an abrams if yes then how?
    q2. is the T-90 more accurate than a challenger if yes then how?
    q3. is the T-90 better suited for urban warfare than a leclerc if yes then how?
    q4 . is the T-90 a better all-rounder tan the leopard 2a6 if yes then how?
     
  17. firechameleon

    firechameleon New Member

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    i think we should also consider operational costs.... for me i like the mighty challenger... BUT it's a turbine based gas guzzler... i think financiallly, t-90 best suites us....

    if money is no issue, then either challenger or the israely tank......
     
  18. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    Challenger does not use a turbine engine, it uses a conventional V12, 1200hp engine. The M1 Abrams uses a Honeywell Turbine, which gives it 1500hp, but the exhaust gases are so hot that anyone standing near the tailpipe will get scalded badly.
     
  19. StealthSniper

    StealthSniper Senior Member Senior Member

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    I would take the Leopard 2 tank in an instant if I had a choice of tanks to choose for the Indian Army.

    YouTube - Leopard 2 Tank Documentary



    But for India's needs I like the T-90s. It has a low profile, a powerful engine, and India has been using Russian tanks for a long time so they are familiar with it. Only thing I think is a weakness for the T-90 is the autoloader. But if money was no object and we could get any tank we want, I would get the more mobile, more advanced and better looking Leopard 2.
     
  20. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    abram and safety but at what cost,those depleated uranium armour is environmental hazard,plus those tanks are made for crusing ,in big cities ,i have seen a picture of abrams with small refrigirator inside in deser storm operations
    the missile defense systems give the T-90 maybe an advantage against modern ATGMs
    The M1A1 weighs 63 tons...the T-90 weighs 46. ,hence T-90 is faster
    not forgetting ,the logistics required for MIAI is very expensive
    OPERATIONAL RANGE AND IN WEAPONS T-90S IS BETTER

    Challenger 2 is equipped with a 120 mm . The T-90's main armament is the 2A46M 125 mm smoothbore gun.
    operational range of challenger 2 -450km
    operational range of t-90s -550km
    power of the engine in challenger 2-1200hp
    power in T-90s - 1250hp

    T-90s has 3tier defense system whereas challeneger has only 2 tier defense system

    if you want to compare t-90s with any tank it would be leopard 2,not forgetting that germans have always , made good tanks ,leo2 is not exception,plus looking from IA side ,T-90s is the most logical choice
     
  21. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    You must be joking... the Germans, Brits, French, Usraelis... they haven't sold tank ToT to any customers. The Abrams the US has been selling to Arabs are stripped down steel pieces of junk according to Amerikan tankers. Even a modernised T-72 would make short work of it according to a USMC major I know. The T-90S is the only game in town for a modern home built tank... unless you want to go Chinese.
     

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