What I have learned from speaking to "enlightened" Pakistanis abroad

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by ArmchairGeneral, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. ArmchairGeneral

    ArmchairGeneral Regular Member

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    Where I currently live there is a large desi population and the Indian community and Pakistani community have more interaction than there would be in other circumstances.

    I was speaking to a group of educated Pakistanis who are roughly my age only, and the topic of Modi came up. Needless to say, I was singing paeans of him and his development and diplomacy offensive. Mercifully, they didn't feel the need to indulge in mindless godhra-2002 related drivel. However, their actual criticisms of the Modi regime were far more interesting and unique:

    One person said that:
    "With Modi govt grandstanding ,and taking hard approach against Pakistan in areas where it isn't even needed ,It is now politically unviable here to suggest having better terms in India. All this posturing , sabre rattling has given even more credibility to people like Hafiz Saeed/Hamid Gul and made people who were already under pressure for trying to have better relations with India even more isolated."

    Another said:
    "the administration can't control what its people are saying. Even people like Ajit Doval (who's supposed to be part of the think tank) can't keep a lid on things, and the Pakistani gov. is eating all of this stuff up because you've got people in the Indian gov. alluding to Indian involvement in terror attacks in Pakistan. All of this had has allowed Pakistan to let Lakhvi go, something which should have never happened if you guys had a smarter gov. Its a diplomatic failure, and shows this style of diplomacy doesn't work with Pakistan."

    And another said:
    "Military and ISI are back in the hotseat after Modi's remarks and they are certainly about to get much powerful in the country as the rhetoric increases. Even the hardcore liberals on twitter have been taken aback by the remarks"

    And in response to all the cross-border rhetoric following Myanmar, another said this:
    "It means to not get aggravated and annoyed... Pakistan civil government has an issue where there is no proper line of communication. Things don't get discussed and handled by a central command. In Pakistan if India or anyone does something then some government official will make the stupidest comments without thinking or talking to anyone.The Pakistani civil government is very dumb... this is why they are pawns and it is very easy to take advantage of them. Look at how the army handles these things, chill as fuck and just say as much as they have too and add in a snide comment."


    Now, these are interesting things to think about. Have our intelligence agencies and NSAs taken into account the pakistani internal political ramifications of our statements and stances?
     
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  3. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Your post made me laugh.

    So these Pakistanis were living under the illusion that the civilian govt finally had power over the Army-mullah nexus in Pakistan. Did you remember the back and forth signs of Nawaz Sharif when Modi invited him to his swearing in ceremony?

    1) Pak army never lost control over Pak policy
    2) Pak never attempted to seriously take a look at its terrorism policy vis-a-vis India. It is 7 years since 26/11 and no results came out of it.
    3) The size difference between India and Pak is huge in every sphere. The current govt has increased their cost of misadventure. I think it is a perfect policy and cannot depend on internal Pak politics.
     
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  4. ArmchairGeneral

    ArmchairGeneral Regular Member

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    remember these are not my personal views, I simply put these for discussion
     
  5. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Yes I know. What did you answer by the way?
     
  6. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Their media has been telling pakis that modi has won on "anti-pak" agenda, they portrayed as if modi spoke about Pakistan in every election speech.

    Fact is that modi spoke about Pakistan in only 4 speeches out of 400 odd speeches.

    Irrespective of who came to power, anti-india rhetoric is ensured at simmering level through out the year in paki society.

    Point is irrespective of who is in power in india, script has already been written about how paki military wants its govt to behave. Everything is fixed.
     
  7. ArmchairGeneral

    ArmchairGeneral Regular Member

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    They had become preconditioned to thinking that Modi + hindu nationalist was a guarantee for war in the next 5 years. Even when I told them that every war had happened on a COngress term, and that the most peaceful moments of the relationship were actually under Janata/NDA govts, they kept on thinking that BJP is inherently warmongering. I told them that Modi's comments on Pakistan (which they already exaggerate) are mostly for domestic consumption and it is futile for pak to rely on these
     
  8. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    You should tell them that war is really likely. They should force their govt. to spend more money on arms purchase etc. The more money they divert from useful activities, the more they would jeopardise their future. Perfect recipe for disintegration of Pak.
     
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  9. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Dude, this is a country where there is a special line at airport for Income tax payers. Do you really expect them to understand the benefits of social spending over military spending.
     
  10. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Really? So if you pay taxes you can quickly pass the line at airport. India should do the same!!
     
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  11. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    1) You can make a person like Kailash Satyarthi PM and they will still bitch and moan. So Modi or not, it hardly matters. It's not like they became angels when Gujral was in power.

    2) Pak army was always in the driving seat. Having a civilian govt in Pak only means that this the politician's turn of getting rich as fuck.

    3) Both statements and actions had their impact. Pakis tried to test the waters with the Kabul attack and then with cross border firing especially along the IB i.e. Hindu majority Jammu. Latter resulted in getting their teeth kicked in by BSF.

    4) Your average Paki with all his bravado is shit scared and this reflects in their media. Harping 'we are nooooclear powa" in all they do and this message is for their own crowd not India as nobody watches Paki channels here.

    5) Finally, if Modi and his govt and its officials stop mentioning Pak from this day forward, they will still blame India for every shooting, blast and every other shit smeared on their faces.

    So no India should keep threatening them in front of international media. Every time they bring up Kashmir and RAW etc, you call them out and threaten them with unbearable consequences. India has the attention of the world and Porkis don't. Use it as profusely as you can.
     
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  12. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    i dont know; heart says subject the bully with some badass bullying - a Raambaan aushadhi for 'laaton ke bhoot'. it is/was long overdue.

    sane people in that country, the minorities, and the moderates, they should follow Chaanakya's teachings and leave that ghetto for safer havens where they could live in peace and prosper.

    just my duanni.
     

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