What exactly is the West Bengal government doing with all the money ?

[Daredevil]

Kammas are no shudras. They are classified as forward castes. I don't know why Idiot want to call himself shudra. It seems Idiot has a problem with Brahmins from what I make of his posts.

Sorry for the OT.

 

[Ray]

Idiot,

But let us go back to Bengal.

Why do you find the Bhadralok disgusting?

 

[Ray]

Kammas are no shudras. They are classified as forward castes. I don't know why Idiot want to call himself shudra. It seems Idiot has a problem with Brahmins from what I make of his posts.

Sorry for the OT.

I read that while they were not high in the pecking order as the Brahmins, they were nonetheless classified as 'upper caste'.

In fact, the problem that the Reddys and Kammas had with the Brahmins was that though the former two castes held all the power, economic and political, the Brahmins still was revered as higher than them!

 

[Ray]

To be frank, Bengal may be a crap State in so far as governance is concerned.

But why the angst toward the Bengalis wanting to celebrate their Bhadralok culture and traditions?

Is it that vile?

Or does it leave others feeling that they are not keeping up with the Jones?

I am asking Idiot!

 

[Ray]

I maybe poor and down to my last penny, but what is wrong if I still maintain my cultured outlook?

 

[Ray]

Here is what a Punjabi and a 'mu phat' has to say about Kolkata

Tuesday, October 19, 2004
Oh, Kolkata! - By Suhel Seth
After several years, I spent six nights in Kolkata, which, thankfully
enough, were like spending six nights in heaven after the kind of lives
we lead in the Delhis and Mumbais of the world. There are no pressures
of work; there is almost an embedded fait accompli in people's
demeanour, which many a time suggests that this is the pace we follow,
and bad luck to you if you don't like it. I also had the luxury of
spending these six nights in unbridled comfort at what is certainly the
finest resort hotel in India: the ITC Sonar Bangla. The editor of this
paper, M.J. Akbar, thankfully agrees that the charm of Kolkata has still
not dimmed, which is why the last time he and I were in Kolkata together
we spoiled ourselves at the various impromptu dinners that were held in
our honour.

There is also a certain basket of values that never escapes Kolkata. The
city just doesn't care who you are as long as you, at some time in your
life, have been a part of it. Which is why even the empty barstools at
the Light Horse Bar at Saturday Club tell you tales you may have heard
aeons ago. The butter chicken at Kwality's tastes just as good and thank
god the ever evolving Priya Paul has done nothing to modernise the
cuisine of Flury's which still serves up the best rum cakes and chicken
patties! I went back to some of our theatre haunts and remembered with
great affection the time I spent with Ashoke Viswanathan savouring the
Afghani
chicken at Sutripti or partaking of Bacchus' generosity at Chota
Barrister.

I even drove past the famed Lover's Lane several times just to relive
those moments when we would sneak our girlfriend of the time to play
hooky under a starry sky until the ubiquitous Kolkata sergeant would
show up on his well-preserved Bullet motorcycle. I watched with fondness
the various cricket matches going on in the Maidan and the same Maya Ram
pao bhaji being advertised with gusto. I took an afternoon off and
strolled within the corridors of Jadavpur University and was delighted
to see Tommy Hilfiger stickers outside the SFI office: even the
communists have realised the worth of Tommy.

But has Kolkata really changed? Have the people become smarter in terms
of making the best of every opportunity? I think not. And this is why
Kolkata is still such a special place to be. The only place where a
lunch is incomplete without a Campari; where there is a distinction
between the dining room and the smoking room and where round-collared
T-shirts still find no acceptance in club bars. There is also a certain
panache that Kolkata has with regard to the music you hear. Item girls
and Daler Mehndi have still not replaced Barry Manilow or for that
matter Nat King Cole. There are hundreds who can still recite their
school song and have
preserved their college blazers and not replaced them with some foreign
brands. Where photographs are in photo frames and not in cupboards, so
that you can litter your drawing room with garish vases. It is this
about th e city that makes it so special.

I took long walks in the malls only to witness for myself, first-hand,
the consumerism that has invaded Kolkata and then I thought to myself,
why not. If Kolkata can erect malls and frequent them without forgetting
the Victoria Memorial or the National Library, then more power to its
collective elbows. I smiled when I saw the queue of people trying to
enter the American Centre. In no other city are libraries as crowded as
cinema halls. And that is because Kolkata still has a mind when all
others are busy losing theirs.

Many years ago I was part of a movement called "Concern for Calcutta"
and it delighted me no end to see that Ward 63 was still sprinkled with
the work that CC, as it was known then, was doing. It is perhaps the
only city in the world which has a nature study park in the costliest
real estate of that city. I went to Dalhousie Institute and saw an
impromptu quiz just as I went to CC&FC and saw prompted drinking
happening. The other unique dimension about this city is, if you belong
here, you are never a guest when you return.

The family asks you no questions: it merely expresses unbridled delight
in seeing you back. You can walk into dinners and parties alike; to
cricket matches and merchant's cup soccer matches on the back of your
past. Kolkata doesn't really care about the present or what you are up
to!

The visit was even more special because I staged two shows of our
English play Alipha: and the memories rushed back of a time when I would
be staging a play almost once every three months. The halls as beautiful
and the audience as well-behaved. No one picking up his or her mobile
phone and screaming Advani or Sonia. Just watching what they've come to
watch intently and with the respect it deserves.

Sometimes, only sometimes, I wish we could throw the residents out of
Delhi and replace them with Kolkatans. The purging would mean so much to
all of us. But then when one ponders, one is
Gratified that Kolkata is still a city of remarkable joy. Of prose and
passion. Of poetry and phuchka. Of people and, thankfully, no
prejudices."
Around the World: Oh, Kolkata! - By Suhel Seth

 

[Bangalorean]

I don't think anyone has anything against Bengalis. There is no "anti-Bengali sentiment" in India.

It is also true that WB has stagnated economically.

However, I want to make a different point here. We have had several discussions on "regionalism" on DFI in the past. Let us realize that everyone feels defensive and protective about their state/local identities. It is all very well to give sage advise about 'state identity being unimportant' and 'India is paramount, don't be regionalistic'.

Let us just accept the fact that everyone in India has multiple identities, legitimately. It is possible to be a proud Bengali and a proud Indian, a proud Tamilian and a proud Indian, etc.

 

[Galaxy]

Why national parties like BJP and Congress failed in W.B ?

BJP has stronghold in nearby states of Jharkhand and Bihar but negligible presence in W.B. Surprisingly, BJP is strong in Bengali dominated areas of Assam and Border of Bihar-Bengal. Even Congress has some presence in all states in eastern states.

Any reason ??

 

[Ray]

Why national parties like BJP and Congress failed in W.B ?

BJP has stronghold in nearby states of Jharkhand and Bihar but negligible presence in W.B. Surprisingly, BJP is strong in Bengali dominated areas of Assam. Even Congress has strong presence in all states in eastern states.

Any reason ??

Bengalis are genuinely secular.

They have no time for religious divides, even though they are devout Hindus. You can see the number of Bengalis at the Trith points!

Therefore, BJP has no place in the cultural and political milieu.

Congress is still liked, but then there are no leaders of standing!

No one wants to vote in a spineless rubber stamp!

We like people with spine.

Mamata, with all her faults, did stand up for ages against the Left.

We like fighters for the cause!

So, she got a chance.

She will either make it or break it (her being appreciated).

Another funny thing about Bengal, they don't like rubber stamps!

We did produce many revolutionaries after all!

 

[Ray]

I don't think anyone has anything against Bengalis. There is no "anti-Bengali sentiment" in India.

It is also true that WB has stagnated economically.

However, I want to make a different point here. We have had several discussions on "regionalism" on DFI in the past. Let us realize that everyone feels defensive and protective about their state/local identities. It is all very well to give sage advise about 'state identity being unimportant' and 'India is paramount, don't be regionalistic'.

Let us just accept the fact that everyone in India has multiple identities, legitimately. It is possible to be a proud Bengali and a proud Indian, a proud Tamilian and a proud Indian, etc.

True,

But then, I don't know about others, but if you see the posts of Bengalis on Bengal, I daresay we blindly support what Bengal is doing. In fact, we are the most vociferous critics of the Bengal Govt, including Mamata.

India come first and of that there is no doubt.

But then what is necessary is there must be fairness and justice.

Surely, if we are condescending told that we are after a part of India and have to be tolerated, then that is a rather supercilious idiocy being perpetuated!

I am sure if I said that A or B state has to be tolerated and they should reform from their idiocy (as was stated), no person from that State would tolerate that slur without reasons being forwarded for such a belief.

 

[Galaxy]

@RaySir.

But How come W.B. voted for Left for 34 years ?? I hate Congress, But if i will feel Left is coming in power, I will vote to Congress just to keep left away. IMO, Lefts are bunch of retard people. They are worst kind of politician. They deliberately try their level best to keep the state in pathetic stage and by nature they are Anti-capitalist. They ruled the center indirectly for 1.5 decades, But they did nothing. Not even a key portfolio. So, What's point of winning election if you can't do anything for own state ?

I know many Bengali and they all are doing quite well. They are the most happy and friendly people in India (State wise). I find most of the Bengali are very religious too. Casteism is also less. But still, I don't understand how come worst party i.e. CPM can rule the state for 34 years ? Even after 34 years, Mamta is also following same path.

Guwhati has 30% Bengali population, Districts like Katihar/Purnea/Araria of Bihar also have large no. of Bengali people. BJP is very strong there. I don't think, Political ideology is the reason. IMO, It's Left strong cadre base which makes all the difference. Even now, Left will comeback in future. Also, People support Left to large extend ? Who to blame Left or People who support Left ideology ?

 

[pmaitra]

^^

Galaxy,

Are you disapproving of Left as a brand, flag and hammer-sickle-star insignia or disapproving of leftist policies?

If you are disapproving of the latter, you would rather support Buddha led Left Front than Mamata led TMC. TMC is just a rebranding of Jyoti Basu's Left Front, more left than Buddha.

 

[Ray]

How come W.B. voted for Left for 34 years ??

Apparently you did not read how Communism takes control not only of States but of countries.

Trawl backward and see that post.

You must read how the Bolsheviks took over Russia.

Compare it with my post!

Districts like Katihar/Purnea/Araria of Bihar also have large no. of Bengali people. BJP is very strong there.

The local environment grips anyone!

In Kolkata, the Biharis think like Bengalis!

 

[Galaxy]

^^

Galaxy,

Are you disapproving of Left as a brand, flag and hammer-sickle-star insignia or disapproving of leftist policies?

If you are disapproving of the latter, you would rather support Buddha led Left Front than Mamata led TMC. TMC is just a rebranding of Jyoti Basu's Left Front, more left than Buddha.

I am disapproving Left policies/Ideology. Not any particular leader.

Yes, I agree that TMC is just following the path of Left.

The problem is Leadership won't matter in parties which is based on certain ideology. Budddha was not like Basu, But he can't change the ideology and policy overnight. One of the main reason is Left is cadres based party like BJP. Leaders come and go, But most of the Policies remains the same. Leaders have to listen to party cadres. IMO, It doesn't make any significant difference who is the leader, what matter is party ideology.

Congress don't have any specific ideology. It changes as per situation.

 

[Sabir]

@ Galaxy

It is not very hard to understand the reason behind the success of Jyoti Basu's government in Bengal. Land Reforms. A whole generation was benefited by getting back their lands which were seized by the British during Lord Cornwalis and handed towards few landlords.

West Bengal has some disadvantages (we have already discussed them) and CPM leaders before Buddhadev Bhattachariya never tried to think out of box to overcome these disadvantages. When Buddhababu tried for some drastic changes to do something it was too late. I think we have a thread where we were discussing what should be done to revive West Bengal. I will try to find it out.

 

[Galaxy]

Apparently you did not read how Communism takes control not only of States but of countries.

Trawl backward and see that post.

You must read how the Bolsheviks took over Russia.

Compare it with my post!

The local environment grips anyone!

I agree Sir. But Left failed in all states except Tripura, Kerala and W.B.

During 70's and 80's when Anti-Congress front were establishing themselves in Hindi Belt and other parts, Left was either rejected or missed to take advantage. Kerala is due to lack of Anti-Congress front. It has religious part too.

According to my political knowledge, Rise of Left in W.B. was more due to lack of other strong parties. Left concentrated in that specific region in early 60's and 70's and further consolidated it's support base. Eventually, Left created Millions of active cadres who work for party. It's general rule that "Election are won with help of cadres and not by voters". Example: ShivSena winning Mumbai election for last 16 years. It's because of Shiv-Sanik is cadre based party. Large no. of people hates SS, Still they win even when their support was divided. It was due to very strong cadre who work very actively. Same story with Left, Now since they have large no. of active party workers. Hence, They continued to HOLD their bastion for such a long time. Even in future, They will surely come back

In Kolkata, the Biharis think like Bengalis!

Even in Delhi, Bengalis think like Bengalis. They maintain their ethnic culture till large extend. IMO, Bengalis are best people (state-wise) i ever met. I've visited so many tourist places and wherever i go, I find Bengalis. One thing I like about Bengalis are they are friendly and very cool.