What "East Turkestan"? It called xinjiang, China!

kickok1975

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I have been on enough Chinese websites to know what 50 cent posts look like, and that is it. Of course you do not get paid for posting on a foreign board, but it still feels like it. Got to love China!
If you treat any pro China post as a way of 50cent army, then I can't help you. We may not like CCP but we love China and wish her best. I'm not posting here to support CCP, but to support the sovereign integrity of China
 

Armand2REP

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If you treat any pro China post as a way of 50cent army, then I can't help you. We may not like CCP but we love China and wish her best. I'm not posting here to support CCP, but to support the sovereign integrity of China
I am sorry if i offend you. It was a joke. I did not know Chinese take being called 50 cent party as an insult. If I could get paid for posting crap, I would probably do it to.
 

kickok1975

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It's not an insult. It's called pretend you know something but you actually don't know. No 50cent army has interest to come to this forum, what's the point to propaganda Indian net surfer?

You seem live in China. I hope you can provide some constructive, objective and insightful points in the future.
 

Ray

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If you treat any pro China post as a way of 50cent army, then I can't help you. We may not like CCP but we love China and wish her best. I'm not posting here to support CCP, but to support the sovereign integrity of China
I am afraid you are being a trifle extra sensitive and I presume you have a right to be so in a foreign forum that is not too somersault-ish in its liking for Communist China.

There are no quibbles on pro China posts. In fact, there are quite a few praises that one notices on positive news of China.

It is just that the posts devoted cooking of history and facts, which find a whole lot of posts correcting the standpoint and sifting the wheat from the overload of chaff that is pandered.

Note the words - Communist China.

There is a great regards and fondness, beyond the Communist regime, for China in India.

"Mistake me not for my complexion
The shadowed livery of the burnish'd Sun,
To whom I am a neighbour, and near bred.
But prove whose blood is reddest, thine or mine."[
 
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Singh

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Whatever you think, General Singh. It's a way for me to present my point
If you wish to showcase using a few pictures that everything is hunky dory, then you are being disingenuous, wouldn't you agree ?

PS: I am not a General and I would not like to be addressed as one.
 

Armand2REP

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I say give greater China a referendum. In one internationally monitered election have Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong and whoever vote for it. If PROC wins, PLA can go marching down the streets. If you lose, get out.
 

kickok1975

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I am afraid you are being a trifle extra sensitive and I presume you have a right to be so in a foreign forum that is not too somersault-ish in its liking for Communist China.

There are no quibbles on pro China posts. In fact, there are quite a few praises that one notices on positive news of China.

It is just that the posts devoted cooking of history and facts, which find a whole lot of posts correcting the standpoint and sifting the wheat from the overload of chaff that is pandered.

Note the words - Communist China.

There is a great regards and fondness, beyond the Communist regime, for China in India.

"Mistake me not for my complexion
The shadowed livery of the burnish'd Sun,
To whom I am a neighbour, and near bred.
But prove whose blood is reddest, thine or mine."[
China and communism is not the same thing. In China's thousands year history, communism just happed in last 60 years. CCP brought many disasters to Chinese people in 1950~1975, but after 1978, they gradually made changes, initiated market reform that greatly enhanced China's economy. Most of Chinese have tasted economic development benefit since then. One should give credit to CCP whether like it or not.

Chinese communism is certainly not the best system. But most Chinese have more important things to worry about. As people's living standard improving and more desires of freedom, they will demand CCP to change one day. It's not a choice for CCP but rather "to be or not to be".

It is understandable some people will mix communism and China together. But it's unfortunate if pro China is labeled as pro communism or brainwashed by communism. One could attack communism system and its dictatorship, but never should use it to undermine Chinese people and the country of China.
 

kickok1975

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If you wish to showcase using a few pictures that everything is hunky dory, then you are being disingenuous, wouldn't you agree ?

PS: I am not a General and I would not like to be addressed as one.
Why you call it a showcase? Showcase of what? What makes you so sensitive? I call you general because you are labeled as general just like we are labeled as communist. I will call you Mr. Singh then.
 
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kickok1975

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I say give greater China a referendum. In one internationally monitered election have Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong and whoever vote for it. If PROC wins, PLA can go marching down the streets. If you lose, get out.
Xinjiang, HongKong, Tibet, Taiwan are part of China. What referendum you are forging?
 
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Minghegy

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I say give greater China a referendum. In one internationally monitered election have Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong and whoever vote for it. If PROC wins, PLA can go marching down the streets. If you lose, get out.
How about your Cosica and DOMs? I think you should get out them first, stop France's cruel and evil occupation.
 

Ray

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China and communism is not the same thing. In China's thousands year history, communism just happed in last 60 years. CCP brought many disasters to Chinese people in 1950~1975, but after 1978, they gradually made changes, initiated market reform that greatly enhanced China's economy. Most of Chinese have tasted economic development benefit since then. One should give credit to CCP whether like it or not.

Chinese communism is certainly not the best system. But most Chinese have more important things to worry about. As people's living standard improving and more desires of freedom, they will demand CCP to change one day. It's not a choice for CCP but rather "to be or not to be".

It is understandable some people will mix communism and China together. But it's unfortunate if pro China is labeled as pro communism or brainwashed by communism. One could attack communism system and its dictatorship, but never should use it to undermine Chinese people and the country of China.
China and Communism is still the same thing since the Chinese Govt has not changed the system, it has only liberalised certain aspects.

The governance is still in the same mode of mind and activity controlled.

Communism may have 'happened' in the last 60 years, but that repression has given the Chinese a new face rather than the old poverty stricken country that it was. I concede that Communism or harsh dictatorship that appeal to nationalism that is divorced of reality does help a nation to find a new identity. Germany crushed in WW I with repressive measure forced on them by the victors is an example where a harsh dictatorship can change a nation that is in the dumps to become a force to reckon with.

The concept of 'having a good life' is different in different countries. Some prefer financial safety and some prefer individual freedom. China chooses the former. No quibbles on that. Andt then snippets of history is dragged in to explain the ethos that contributes to the CCP being able to hold the sway.

If China is not communist, then what is it? A democracy, plutocracy or an anarchy?

If not Communist, has the Politburo renounced it?

Labels matter.

It is not that anyone attacks the Chinese people. They only discuss China and its effect caused by the Chinese Communist policies.

Taiwan is a Chinese area and Singapore has Chinese majority. None 'attack' them.

Therefore, it is incorrect to believe that the Chinese people are being 'attacked'.
 
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Minghegy

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If you want label a communist label on China, then I can label a untouchable label on India.
Do you simply believe India has better human rights than China? lol
 

kickok1975

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China and Communism is still the same thing since the Chinese Govt has not changed the system, it has only liberalised certain aspects.

The governance is still in the same mode of mind and activity controlled.

Communism may have 'happened' in the last 60 years, but that repression has given the Chinese a new face rather than the old poverty stricken country that it was. I concede that Communism or harsh dictatorship that appeal to nationalism that is divorced of reality does help a nation to find a new identity. Germany crushed in WW I with repressive measure forced on them by the victors is an example where a harsh dictatorship can change a nation that is in the dumps to become a force to reckon with.

The concept of 'having a good life' is different in different countries. Some prefer financial safety and some prefer individual freedom. China chooses the former. No quibbles on that.



if not Communist, has the Politburo renounced it?
Sure China is under communism (CCP) party control.
 

kickok1975

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If you want label a communist label on China, then I can label a untouchable label on India.
Do you simply believe India has better human rights than China? lol
No argument and need to compare. Our human rights is better than before but still bad enough.
 

JBH22

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No argument and need to compare. Our human rights is better than before but still bad enough.

i like what Den Xiaoping said "it doesn't matter whether the cat is black or white so long it kills the rat it is a good cat" therefore if China is making its average citizen richer i don't see why the hell we should be bothered point is

PEOPLE WANT CARS,LUXURY it is only when they don't get that things start getting ugly for the political elite.

Sure freedom of speech is great but we all know that even in democracies it has its limits
 

nimo_cn

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Just as we do not like anyone calling Arunachal as South Tibet!
And it is tolerated in this forum, since one should not dictate our ideas on foreigners.

For if the forum does that, it would be merely a propaganda machine!

In India, we allow not 100 but a 1000 flowers to bloom.

Our credo is

Into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
You must forget China also claims South Tibet, which makes it a disputed land. So from Chinese perspetive, it should be called South Tibet.

In the case of xinjiang, is there any country that doesn't acknowledge Chinese sovereignty over it? Does India have any problem with Xinjiang being part of China? If not, what is the point of insinuating that Xinjing is an independent country by calling it "East Turkestan", while your own government denies that.

No one is depriving you of your speech freedom, all we are asking for is your due respect for your government's official stance. The day your government starts calling it "East Turkestan" and questioning Chinese sovereignty over Xinjiang, you are free to call it whatever you want, and I will shut myself up.
 

Armand2REP

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No argument and need to compare. Our human rights is better than before but still bad enough.
As a yang guizi living in China, I don't really feel that oppressed. I can easily get around the Great Firewall with a VPN. I can go out and eat what I want, shop where I want, buy what I want. I can get on any English or French forum and say what I want. Jing Jing and Cha Cha are not coming on my screen. As long as I don't criticise the regime in public or take a bunch of pictures in none tourist areas, I really feel fine. I have been here a month and have yet to get my papers checked. Police don't bother me nor do the white license plates of the military in their Mercedes Benz. I can move freely without anyone checking hokou since I don't have one. My Chinese girl says she is hassled less with yang guizi boyfriend.
 

Armand2REP

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How about your Cosica and DOMs? I think you should get out them first, stop France's cruel and evil occupation.
I am all for referendum in France or anywhere else. Let the people decide. France has either given referendums or scheduled it for all territory.
 

S.A.T.A

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The mystery of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement

The mystery of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement

Rumors, half-truths and on occasion downright lies make credible research on the Uyghur people of Xinjiang very difficult to conduct. The Chinese government keeps such a tight lid on information that the outside world is often left guessing at what is happening in the region.

The confusing and contradictory reports, often laced with political motivation, that do emerge from Xinjiang mean that a high degree of skepticism need be applied. The unrest that took place in Urumqi on July 5, 2009 is a case in point. Contending political perspectives have all offered versions of the events that day, but the only definitive conclusion is that the world will never know what happened.

This information gap is more than a pity. It not only does a disservice to academia and journalists, but more importantly, it also puts the outside world's perception of the Uyghur people largely in the hands of others.

So it is with the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM). Scholars, activists and government officials working with limited or subjective evidence have all pondered questions on the organization that range from questioning its very existence to its capacity to conduct acts of terror. For academics such as George Washington University's Sean Roberts, available evidence to answer those questions is "murky"1. Roberts' counterpart at Georgetown University, James Millward, writing in 2004, states "the notion of an imminent terrorist threat in Xinjiang or from Uyghur groups is exaggerated"2.

However, for the Chinese government there is no question in the matter with the official media claiming "ETIM and other East Turkistan organizations have joined international terrorist forces to create violent terrorist incidents inside and outside of China for a long time"3.

In The ETIM, Reed and Raschke have compiled a comprehensive account of the known information on the ETIM from Chinese and American government sources, as well as from non-Chinese and Chinese media reports. The book also includes details gleaned from the ETIM's, predominately online, material, but Reed and Raschke only briefly touch on the existence debate in the book's introduction.

The brevity with which the authors deal with the existence question may be representative of the dearth of credible information surrounding alleged Uyghur terror organizations; however, the existence question also contains the kernel of the geopolitical interests of the various actors that promote the notion of an organized Uyghur terror threat in China. Despite the authors' clarity in acknowledging the sources of their information, these geopolitical interests should make the authors ask more questions than they do of the available evidence from interested parties. In essence, the authors' could have explored their assertion that "the ETIM is a viable organization" with a more analytical and critical eye.

The authors' chronological list of incidents to chart the frequency and timing of violence in the region is a good example. The authors readily acknowledge the listing's reliance on Chinese reporting. However, and in one case particularly, further or contrary evidence is absent. In the 2008 Beijing Olympics period a series of attacks occurred in Xinjiang. One of these was a serious incident in Kashgar on August 4, 2008, which killed 16 people. The authors attribute this attack to the ETIM, but do not mention evidence4 presented by New York Times reporter, Edward Wong, that is at odds with the Chinese government version. While the veracity of the New York Times' evidence should be thoroughly questioned too, it is important to present to give a fuller picture.

Reed and Raschke concisely, but prominently, document the issues of cultural and economic marginalization facing the Uyghur that provide a context to the contentious politics in the region, and examine how the Chinese government has exploited the "war on terror" to justify the general repression of the Uyghur populace. These are key points to outline in understanding the patterns of dissent and political control in Xinjiang. The ETIM clearly illustrates how China conflates Uyghur opposition to state policy with terrorism when expedient, as well as China's struggles in handling genuine concern over internal security issues.

Fieldwork by overseas scholars on even the most benign of issues affecting the Uyghur is difficult to undertake in Xinjiang, and on security issues it is virtually impossible. Limited to secondary sources, Reed and Raschke are restricted in offering a perspective from the Uyghur people in Xinjiang on alleged Uyghur terror groups, such as grassroots depth of awareness of such organizations to concerns over Chinese counterterrorism measures. The absence of Uyghur perspectives is troubling; however, evidence from the Uyghur Diaspora organizations may have opened up a deeper understanding on these issues.

What emerges from The ETIM is that essentially not much is known about the organization. If it exists, its operational strength is unclear. If it existed at one time, its self-alleged attacks, contrary to Chinese reports, seem unsophisticated. If it never existed, the plausibility that it forms part of an elaborate fiction to repress Uyghurs is untested. All of these questions remain unanswered.

What does remain after all the evidence has been presented and analyzed is the lamentable situation that innocent lives have been lost, and that the Uyghur people continue to be voiceless in issues of their concern.
 

amoy

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As a yang guizi living in China, I don't really feel that oppressed.
good. so u're able to "compare" life in a dictaorship (or read communism) of China and a 'democracy' of India if u have been both.

since u're "free" in China u now can do some "propaganda" for China LOL! except those "ghost towns". Guangzhou, I can safely say is far better than many metropolis in Europe, needless to mention India according to pictures. I've been in Guangzhou and I can understand most of Cantonese.

by the way I don't understand why u folks vomit over "communism" again and again. Is it a new fashion? without rise of Communism (or read Soviet Union leading the way) changing political pattern or equilibrium of the whole world could a colony like India earn its independence? Or could workers worldwide enjoy a 8-hour working day?
 

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