What do People involved in Partition think of Pakistan ?

[Ray]

Look dude Partition has been over for 64 years. Get over it. This is what I hate when people like MMS says "We have a shared destiny". Dumbfcuk, we do not share a destiny and get over it is what MK.Narayanan must have told. But he remained courteous.

We may not have a shared destiny, but we do have a shared history.

MMS was merely being courteous.

 

[.v0id]

Northern Indians don't like Pakistan.

Punjab transfer of population happened on very large scale. Like Hindus/Sikhs of Lahore came to India and Muslims of Gurdaspur/Amritsar went to Pakistan. It was not culturally shocked because both were same Punjab. Yes, 1/3rd of the population lost their native place but eventually it become normal. Today, Indian Punjabi don't have any positive feeling about Pakistan. They along with Northern Indians hate Pakistan more than South Indian. All the culture, tradition, customs were originated from Hinduism. Sikh is branch of Hinduism. So, Indian Punjabi people don't feel anything about Pakistani Punjabi as they were originally Indian/Hindus only. They have identity crisis between Hindus/Indian Culture and Arabs religious ideology . We are following same tradition which we were doing thousands of years back.

You are wrong here mate.

 

[KS]

We may not have a shared destiny, but we do have a shared history.

MMS was merely being courteous.

Not all have the shared history even.

Not everyone in India is a Punjabi born in present day Pakistan or a Bengali born in erstwhile East Bengal.And that is what MKN mean"t by "You shared a destiny,we do not"

 

[Tronic]

Thing about Punjab is, Indian Punjabis see Pakistani Punjab as the cultural heartland. It is the land of Sikhism, Guru Nanak's birthplace, Mahaja Ranjit Singh's birthplace, the capitol of the Sikh Empire - Lahore, the land of Mirza-Sahiba and Heer-Ranjha, the land of Bulleh Shah and Waris Shah, the most historically significant and culturally rich part of Sikhism lies on the Pakistani side. From the Palace to the tomb of Ranjit Singh, to the birthplace of the famous Sikh Ahluwalia Misaldars (Ahluwalia meaning the people from the village of Ahlu, which is located near Lahore), to the Sikh forts of Jamrud where the famous Sikh general Hari Singh Nalwa, breathed his last, at the gates of Kabul. The word Punjab is also derived from Panj (meaning 5) and Ab (meaning water), hence the land of 5 rivers. It is also nostalgically said that Pakistan was unfairly given the larger section of the Punjab (getting 3 out of the 5 rivers). Nehru and Gandhi are widely disliked in Punjab for their insensitivity to partitioning Punjab (Indian Punjabis believe they deserved a greater chunk of Punjab, but Nehru and Gandhi didn't gives a rats ass about what the Punjabis wanted and Nehru just wanted to get things out of his way quickly so he could become PM).

So, it is not the Pakistani Punjabis which those feelings are towards, rather, it is the land which the Pakistanis got.

And, you only have to come to Punjab and talk to Punjabis to realize exactly the amount of importance Punjabis give to zameen.

 

[The Messiah]

Thing about Punjab is, Indian Punjabis see Pakistani Punjab as the cultural heartland. It is the land of Sikhism, Guru Nanak's birthplace, Mahaja Ranjit Singh's birthplace, the capitol of the Sikh Empire - Lahore, the land of Mirza-Sahiba and Heer-Ranjha, the land of Bulleh Shah and Waris Shah, the most historically significant and culturally rich part of Sikhism lies on the Pakistani side. From the Palace to the tomb of Ranjit Singh, to the birthplace of the famous Sikh Ahluwalia Misaldars (Ahluwalia meaning the people from the village of Ahlu, which is located near Lahore), to the Sikh forts of Jungadh where the famous Sikh general Hari Singh Nalwa, breathed his last, at the gates of Kabul. The word Punjab is also derived from Panj (meaning 5) and Ab (meaning water), hence the land of 5 rivers. It is also nostalgically said that Pakistan was unfairly given the larger section of the Punjab (getting 3 out of the 5 rivers). Nehru and Gandhi are widely disliked in Punjab for their insensitivity to partitioning Punjab (Indian Punjabis believe they deserved a greater chunk of Punjab, but Nehru and Gandhi didn't gives a rats ass about what the Punjabis wanted and Nehru just wanted to get things out of his way quickly so he could become PM).

So, it is not the Pakistani Punjabis which those feelings are towards, rather, it is the land which the Pakistanis got.

And, you only have to come to Punjab and talk to Punjabis to realize exactly the amount of importance Punjabis give to zameen.

Often punjabis claim they feel more at home in pakistan than in south India. Sidhu once said touring pakistan wasn't so different yet he felt different in south India.

Since i am not punjabi can you explain this thought process ?

 

[Galaxy]

You are wrong here mate.

Yes, I agree with you. But I don't feel too different. Both originated in India along with Jainism and Buddhism with many similarities.

 

[Tronic]

Often punjabis claim they feel more at home in pakistan than in south India. Sidhu once said touring pakistan wasn't so different yet he felt different in south India.

Since i am not punjabi can you explain this thought process ?

Well that is obvious Messiah. I am sure even Tamils will feel more at home in Northern Sri Lanka, than they will in Indian Punjab. Language, culture, traditions all play a part.

 

[Galaxy]

Well that is obvious Messiah. I am sure even Tamils will feel more at home in Northern Sri Lanka, than they will in Indian Punjab. Language, culture, traditions all play a part.

Even WB people will feel more at home in Bangladesh than Punjab.
Even North Bihar will feel more at home in Bangladesh than Kerala.
Even Sikkim people will feel more at home in Bhutan than Gujarat.

:thumb:

 

[pmaitra]

Even WB people will feel more at home in Bangladesh than Punjab.
Even North Bihar will feel more at home in Bangladesh than Kerala.
Even Sikkim people will feel more at home in Bhutan than Gujarat.

:thumb:

WB and Bihar people will feel more at home in Orissa, Jharkhand, Chhatisgarh, MP than in Bangladesh. That is my perception.

Edit: WB people will feel more at home in Gaya and Kashi, both in UP, than in Bangladesh.

 

[The Messiah]

Even WB people will feel more at home in Bangladesh than Punjab.
Even North Bihar will feel more at home in Bangladesh than Kerala.
Even Sikkim people will feel more at home in Bhutan than Gujarat.

:thumb:

Only west bengal is correct.

for others you are fishing....

 

[pmaitra]

Only west bengal is correct.

for others you are fishing....

Good point. Geographical location does not always dictate who people hang out with.

For example, I have a friends from Tuva, Russia and Azerbaijan, formerly in USSR. They were roommates. The former never hung out with Mongolian guys, neither did the Azeri ever hang out with the Iranians. If geographical distance was the only criterion, that would have been the case. However, I agree, that I have cited only one example and does not represent a large sample set.

 

[KS]

Often punjabis claim they feel more at home in pakistan than in south India. Sidhu once said touring pakistan wasn't so different yet he felt different in south India.

Since i am not punjabi can you explain this thought process ?

That is natural given the common ethinicity, language and culture.

But what puzzles me is that how can they cloud the PM's perspective on things that ought to be looked only though the lens of national interest without any emotions ?

 

[Tronic]

That is natural given the common ethinicity, language and culture.

But what puzzles me is that how can they cloud the PM's perspective on things that ought to be looked only though the lens of national interest without any emotions ?

We don't know what the PM really implied, we are only going by assumptions. Those same words could have very easily been said by a non-Punjabi PM and they would have been taken differently.

 

[KS]

Thing about Punjab is, Indian Punjabis see Pakistani Punjab as the cultural heartland. It is the land of Sikhism, Guru Nanak's birthplace, Mahaja Ranjit Singh's birthplace, the capitol of the Sikh Empire - Lahore, the land of Mirza-Sahiba and Heer-Ranjha, the land of Bulleh Shah and Waris Shah, the most historically significant and culturally rich part of Sikhism lies on the Pakistani side. From the Palace to the tomb of Ranjit Singh, to the birthplace of the famous Sikh Ahluwalia Misaldars (Ahluwalia meaning the people from the village of Ahlu, which is located near Lahore), to the Sikh forts of Jamrud where the famous Sikh general Hari Singh Nalwa, breathed his last, at the gates of Kabul. The word Punjab is also derived from Panj (meaning 5) and Ab (meaning water), hence the land of 5 rivers. It is also nostalgically said that Pakistan was unfairly given the larger section of the Punjab (getting 3 out of the 5 rivers). Nehru and Gandhi are widely disliked in Punjab for their insensitivity to partitioning Punjab (Indian Punjabis believe they deserved a greater chunk of Punjab, but Nehru and Gandhi didn't gives a rats ass about what the Punjabis wanted and Nehru just wanted to get things out of his way quickly so he could become PM).

So, it is not the Pakistani Punjabis which those feelings are towards, rather, it is the land which the Pakistanis got.

And, you only have to come to Punjab and talk to Punjabis to realize exactly the amount of importance Punjabis give to zameen.

I perfectly understand the importance given to Land as even in my caste its the same. Selling the ancestral land is akin to selling someone from your family and is despised.

But I dont know if I am not articulating it properly or something - but my question is how can those feelings play a part in the diplomatic realm wherein its only the boundaries and the national interests that matter ? We can obviously see that in the case of MMS,KN etc. Those people may yearn for peace because they got a shared destiny with that land and that is their personal matter. But for that sake they cannot be bending over backward towards Pakistan as now MMS represents not only the Punjabis but the whole of India and the whole of India does not share any common denominator with Pakistan or they had a say in the Partition.

 

[Tronic]

I perfectly understand the importance given to Land as even in my caste its the same. Selling the ancestral land is akin to selling someone from your family and is despised.

But I dont know if I am not articulating it properly or something - but my question is how can those feelings play a part in the diplomatic realm wherein its only the boundaries and the national interests that matter ? We can obviously see that in the case of MMS,KN etc. Those people may yearn for peace because they got a shared destiny with that land and that is their personal matter. But for that sake they cannot be bending over backward towards Pakistan as now MMS represents not only the Punjabis but the whole of India and the whole of India does not share any common denominator with Pakistan or they had a say in the Partition.

Sri, he does not explicitly mention that his "shared destiny" comments are due to him, and others, being born in lands which are now Pakistan. As I said, we do not know what he really implied, these are all political assumptions. Neither is MMS the first person to make such a correlation with Pakistan; there have been numerous others, non-Punjabis, who have said the same thing, i.e. India's future is tied with Pakistans'. Yet, they have not received the same flak as MMS for stating the same! Seems like MMS is simply being targeted for being a Punjabi.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Karthic,

There is without a doubt the cultural bonding between the two punjabs and the two Punjabis would be comfortable in each other's company, but does that mean the indian Punjabi develops any fond liking for people from across the border, I seriously doubt it, as I said the romance that is there is for a small section of people, others live with the reality as it is, even though on the face they might not come across as hostile or show contempt.

You have raised the question about MMS, and something that we need to notice here is, we have a PM who is pretty much spineless and is remote controlled, he is more someone who takes dictation rather than someone who is enterprising and daring enough to initiate something on his own. Had it not been for Sonia G, we would not have had the civil nuke deal, being an economist he has pretty much given up on the economic reforms, possibly his favorite subject and what a shame thanks largely to the 2Gs, I seriously believe if he was to have his way, chaps like A. raja wouldn't have been allowed in the cabinet.

There has to be something more behind the scene though to us it is projected as MMS is the one calling the shots on the subject of indo-pak relations much like the way it has been done with the corruption scandals because for some reason the 2Gs of the country have never done any wrong, recall even the emergency was the making of sanjay whose son has no value to congress anymore and emergency today is projected as something that had nothing to do with IG, and so I seriously doubt MMS to be the only one. There is a definite US angle, we can be rest assured of tremendous pressure coming from the americans and the American pressure is generally full of sweet talk accompanied with threats and blackmails and then there is no way it wont be the 2Gs involved at some stage. I don't believe it that MMS is the only one calling the shots here.

 

[Ray]

MMS reminds me of the story, Prisoner of Zenda.

 

[mayfair]

Yet, they have not received the same flak as MMS for stating the same! Seems like MMS is simply being targeted for being a Punjabi.

That's a pretty shoddy and baseless comment coming from you. Expected better from you than resorting to cheap shots.