what a farce:China set to bid on major US aerospace programmes

[badguy2000]

what a farce it is ! China-made L15 is to be bid on USA's aerospace programme.....

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdi/jdi110124_1_n.shtml

Chinese President Hu Jintao's high-profile visit to the US looks set to be followed by ambitious bids from China to supply platforms to meet two major US military aircraft procurement programmes.

State-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) is preparing proposals, in partnership with existing partner US aviation services group US Aerospace (USAE), to bid for the US Navy's VXX helicopter programme and the US Air Force T-X project to procure advanced jet trainers (AJT).

A lawyer who represents USAE in its dealings with AVIC, John C Kirkland – a partner at California law firm Luce Forward -–revealed to Jane's on 21 January that in both proposals AVIC would supply what would be regarded as civilian aircraft platforms that would be upgraded in the US with military avionics and, in the case of the T-X, a fire control system. Such manufacturing programmes would be facilitated under a USAE-AVIC strategic partnership that was formed in September 2010

 

[badguy2000]

 

[Ray]

Clever move Mr Hu.

When will it come about?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I think Mr.Hu took an Barrel of Vaseline to the US!!! I think Obama and rest of the US will have back pain for quite some time to come!!

On the other hand that Helicopter looks pretty good, why cant they sell that to India?

 

[badguy2000]

I think Mr.Hu took an Barrel of Vaseline to the US!!! I think Obama and rest of the US will have back pain for quite some time to come!!

On the other hand that Helicopter looks pretty good, why cant they sell that to India?

well, because it is crappy copyrat

 

[Godless-Kafir]

well, because it is crappy copyrat

Well dont blame us, you people never asked or offered anything!! Have you tried asking before jumping to conclusions?

I wont be surprised if IAF does buy from China.

 

[nrj]

A token from Obama that we might open our actual market. Although I see only PRC on gaining side & not the US. Good luck AVIC in attempting to collect know-hows of US machinery buildup mechanism.

 

[Armand2REP]

On the other hand that Helicopter looks pretty good, why cant they sell that to India?

Probably because France would retaliate for breaking license terms.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Armand the AC 313 is based on the z-8 which in turn is based on the super frelon from france with pratt and whitney engines

I don't see how Russia has any part of this. please back up you claims.

If you don't like China fine but try to at least use factual arguments for why they can't sell their helicopters to America

Note Mr tanlixiang28776, like China, we in India prefer to remain within the ambit of language that is not crude.

Therefore, you may hereinafter desist from using such puerile terms as = stop spewing one line liners pulled out of your rear end

It may make you feel very liberal and modern by using US forum language, but I daresay, we in India appreciate crudeness as what you have written.

- Ray

 

[tanlixiang28776]

it may be crude but it should encourage people to start actually researching the discussed subjects instead of writing one liners based on preconceived and biased opinions Ray.

I see too many posters shouting copycat every single time china comes with something new. it really spoils the quality of the thread and it alienates many people who would otherwise contribute to this forum. If it is a copy then let posters back it up with actual facts instead opinions based on their dogmatic views.

I would hope you admonish one liners like those instead of simply trying to discipline me for expressing my views based on research.



I'll delete the rear end part but I do think people should actually discuss things without jumping to random conclusions.

P.S. using rear end instead of a more vulgar term is already considered quite respectful compared to what I see regularly on this forum without any punishment.

 

[nrj]

I see too many posters shouting copycat every single time china comes with something new. it really spoils the quality of the thread and it alienates many people who would otherwise contribute to this forum.

I completely agree with you it does lower the quality discussion.

If it is a copy then let posters back it up with actual facts instead opinions based on their dogmatic views.

Now, you need to understand why every other person is calling out Copycat slangs for each Chinese product. Chinese people bring up the news but they are backed with no or very little facts in first place. For example, you produce photos of aircraft & starts calling it super-duper holy grail without any technical specifications to back your claim.

I'll urge to arrive with solid data & if then any other member starts ranting, he/she should be able to back it up.

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand the AC 313 is based on the z-8 which in turn is based on the super frelon from france with pratt and whitney engines

I don't see how Russia has any part of this. please back up you claims.

If you don't like China fine but try to at least use factual arguments for why they can't sell their helicopters to America

I don't see how Russia has any part in it either. A helicopter based on a French export license isn't going to be exported to a NATO nation. They uphold copy right laws there. If they try selling it in its civilian version, the EU can take it to the WTO. Considering Pratt is not going to be exporting anymore engines for a helicopter they thought was going to be civilian, but is military, Harbin won't be producing much of anything.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

You can call the z-8 a copy as it only added new avionics and other changes to the frelon but that same argument won't really work on the AC 313 as it has far more extensive changes such as 50 % of the airframe being composed 0f composites , modern avionics, different engines, as well as the airframe itself being modified extensively.

French probably won't complain as they sold the helicopters to China almost 30 years ago and they want to keep exporting stuff to china like uranium. Remember that 20 billion dollar deal not even a year ago?

By the way both the L 15 and AC 313 are offered to U.S. in the guise of civilian aircraft so yes Pratt and Whitney will still continue to supply engines as long as needed.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...first-flight-and-secures-launch-customer.html

 

[Armand2REP]

Avicopter says it will then apply for European and US validation.

It is in violation of EU copyright and the US respects IP. What makes you think A) the US wants a helicopter based on a 50 year old design and B) why it wants an illegal copy?

The L-15 is a jet trainer for the military. It doesn't have a civilian application.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

If the EU and US validates then it won't really matter if you think it's a copy or not.

The L 15 offered is stripped of military avionics and then given to the U.S so they can install their own. ( loophole)

 

[SHASH2K2]

USA military jet trainer deal going to China is biggest joke of the year. Its not a home appliance of small memento . USA will never allow it to go to china . No matter even if its dirt cheap. If it goes to China Then even god cannot save America and Mr Obama.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

The L 15 is certainly not dirt cheap at 15 million dollars a piece so watch your mouth.

If the L-15 meets American requirements at a reasonable price then the choice would have a positive effect on U.S. -China relations especially military ties.

It also gives the Chinese far greater military transparency. I mean if selling your weapons to the U.S. isn't transparent I don't know what is.

 

[Armand2REP]

If the EU and US validates then it won't really matter if you think it's a copy or not.

If a frog grows wings it can fly, nobody is going to eat it.

The L 15 offered is stripped of military avionics and then given to the U.S so they can install their own. ( loophole)

Avionics do not make it military, it is the application for which it is used that catagorises it. There is no other use except as an advanced jet trainer. No one but military uses advanced jets.

 

[badguy2000]

Probably because France would retaliate for breaking license terms.

well, retailiate with Frenchmen's mouths,won't you?

 

[redragon]

hey Armand, have you heard about anything saying French weapons are competing for American contracts lately? Kindly share info or links regarding that, many thanks.