We don't need your advice: Muslim leader to Musharraf

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Rage, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Indian Muslim Leader tells Musharraf to take a hike

    We don't need your advice: Muslim leader tells Musharraf

    8 Mar 2009, 1705 hrs IST, PTI


    NEW DELHI: "Indian Muslims are capable of solving their problems... We don't need your advice.. Don't try to alienate Indian Muslims by your remarks, here or in Pakistan."

    This blunt message was conveyed to former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf by a prominent Muslim leader Mehmood Madani at a function in India.

    Madani, member of Rajya Sabha and leader of Jamat-e-Ulema-i-Hind, made it clear to the Pakistani leader that he or his country need not bother about the condition of Muslims in India.

    "Don't start your politics of Pakistan from here," Madani told Musharraf after the latter claimed that Muslims in India were alienated and suggested that this was one of the reasons for terrorism here.

    Virtually retorting the former Pakistani military ruler, Madani said, "Pakistan ki jitni total population hai , us se zyada population hai Indian Muslims ki . (Population of Muslims in India is more than that total population of Pakistan). You should be knowing this."

    When Musharraf said he was aware of it, Madani said "If you know this, then you should also know that Indian Muslims have the capability to solve their problems. We don't need your advice. Don't try to alienate Indian Muslims by your remarks, here or in Pakistan, ever."


    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...m-leader-to-Musharraf/articleshow/4241534.cms

    x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1s...need-your-advice-muslim-leader-musharraf.html
     
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  3. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    The pakistanis on online forums and otherwise seem pretty miffed about it. It's entertaining watching them get all rattled, and trying to hurl denigrating accusations at Madani and Indian muslims in general, even while they try in vain to salvage some of Musharraf's lost pride..
     
  4. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    More on Musharraf's India visit:

    Change attitude towards Pakistan, Musharraf tells India

    By Nigam Prusthy
    Sat Mar 7, 2:38 PM


    NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India and Pakistan must change the way they treat each other and bury a "dirty past" to tackle growing militancy in the region together, Pakistan's former President Pervez Musharraf said on Saturday.

    "The past has been dirty, the past has been bad, but don't put the blame on Pakistan," Musharraf said at a media event in New Delhi late on Saturday. "You tried to do damage to us, we were not sitting idle, we tried to damage you."

    He said both countries were to be blamed for decades of mistrust and dispute, but now need to move ahead.

    "There is a need for attitudal change, more in India less in Pakistan," the former army general said, referring to India's regular allegations that Pakistan's spy agency, the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), and the Pakistan army were behind militant strikes in India.

    Pakistan and India have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947 and came to the brink of a fourth after gunmen attacked the Indian parliament in December 2001.

    India also paused talks on a peace process between the two countries after it blamed Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba for the Mumbai attacks last November in which nearly 170 people died.

    India says its nuclear-armed rival has done little to clamp down on militant activity on its soil.

    Musharraf asked India to stop what he described as "Pakistan bashing" and instead urged New Delhi to help the ISI and Pakistan's army fight militancy in the region.

    "Help the Pakistan army and the ISI to tackle them (militants) and please don't malign them," the former army chief said, adding that Pakistan's army and the ISI wanted peace with India.

    The former president, who stepped down in August last year, said the army and the ISI were the best bets to fight the growing influence of the Taliban and militancy in Pakistan.

    "Please don't create misunderstanding in the world against the ISI and the army," he said.

    Pakistani authorities have been criticized after gunmen fired at the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore on Tuesday.

    "Pakistan is critical under the present circumstances to fight terrorism and extremism, Pakistan is critical to bring peace in the region," Musharraf said.

    The former army general said the solution to end militancy in the region lay in finding a peaceful solution for Kashmir.


    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/international_us_india_pakistan_musharraf
     
  5. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    We don't need your advice: Muslim leader to Musharraf

    8 Mar 2009, 1705 hrs IST, PTI

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...m-leader-to-Musharraf/articleshow/4241534.cms

    NEW DELHI: "Indian Muslims are capable of solving their problems... We don't need your advice.. Don't try to alienate Indian Muslims by your remarks, here or in Pakistan."

    This blunt message was conveyed to former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf by a prominent Muslim leader Mehmood Madani at a function in India.

    Madani, member of Rajya Sabha and leader of Jamat-e-Ulema-i-Hind, made it clear to the Pakistani leader that he or his country need not bother about the condition of Muslims in India.

    "Don't start your politics of Pakistan from here," Madani told Musharraf after the latter claimed that Muslims in India were alienated and suggested that this was one of the reasons for terrorism here.

    Virtually retorting the former Pakistani military ruler, Madani said, "Pakistan ki jitni total population hai , us se zyada population hai Indian Muslims ki . (Population of Muslims in India is more than that total population of Pakistan). You should be knowing this."

    When Musharraf said he was aware of it, Madani said "If you know this, then you should also know that Indian Muslims have the capability to solve their problems. We don't need your advise. Don't try to alienate Indian Muslims by your remarks, here or in Pakistan."
     
  6. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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  7. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    x posting from other thread as I think it is in same lines:

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Columnists/M-J-Akbar-A-flawed-idea/articleshow/4240191.cms

    MJ Akbar
    A flawed idea
    8 Mar 2009, 0238 hrs IST, M J Akbar

    Indians and Pakistanis are the same people. Why then have the two nations moved on such divergent arcs over the last six decades? The idea of India is stronger than the Indian, and the idea of Pakistan weaker than the Pakistani. Multi-religious, multi-ethnic, secular, democratic India was an idea that belonged to the future; one-dimensional Pakistan was a concept borrowed from the fears of the past. India has progressed into a modern nation occasionally hampered by backward forces. Pakistan is regressing into a medieval society with a smattering of modern elements.

    Pakistan was born out of the wedlock of two inter-related propositions. Its founders argued, without any substantive evidence, that Hindus and Muslims could never live together as equals in a single nation. They imposed a parallel theory, perhaps in an effort to strengthen the argument with an emotive layer, that Islam was in danger on the subcontinent. Pakistan's declared destiny, therefore, was not merely as a refuge for some Indian Muslims, but also a fortress of the faith. This was the rationale for what became known as the "two-nation theory". The British bought the argument, the Congress accepted it reluctantly, the Muslim League exulted.

    The Indian state was founded on equality and equity: political equality through democracy, religious equality through secularism, gender equality, and economic equity. Economic equality is a fantasy, but without an equitable economy that works towards the elimination of poverty there cannot be a sustainable state. India, therefore, saw land reforms and the abolition of zamindari. Pakistan has been unable to enforce land reforms. India and Pakistan were alternative models for a nation-state. Time would determine which idea had the legs to reach a modern horizon.

    The two strands within Pakistan's DNA began to slowly split its personality. The father of the nation, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, thought he had produced a child in his own image, but his secular prescription was soon suppressed. His ideas were buried at his funeral. His heirs began to concede space to mullahs like Maulana Maudoodi who asked, in essence, that if Pakistan had been created to defend Islam, then who would be its best guardians?

    After some debate, the first Constitution in 1956 proclaimed Pakistan as an "Islamic" state. It was an uneasy compromise. No one cared (or dared) to examine what it might mean. The principal institutions of state, and the economy, remained largely in the control of the secular tendency until, through racist prejudice, arrogance and awesome military incompetence it was unable to protect the integrity of the nation. The crisis of 1969-1971, and the second partition of the subcontinent, which created a Muslim-majority Bangladesh out of a Muslim-majority Pakistan, forced Pakistan to introspect deeply about its identity.

    Perhaps the last true secularist of this Islamic state was the Western-Oriented-Gentleman Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who came to power in 1971, preached emancipation from poverty and did not mind a spot of whisky in the evening. By the end of his six years in office, he had imposed prohibition. The ground had begun to shift even before the coup that brought Gen Zia to power.

    Zia had the answer to his own question: if Islam was the cement of Pakistan, how could you expect the edifice to survive if the cement had been diluted. Islam became the ideology of the state, not as a liberal and liberating influence, but in its Wahabi manifestation: compulsory prayers in government offices, public flogging, the worst form of gender bias in legislation, the conversion of history into anti-Hindu and anti-Indian fantasy, a distorted school curriculum, with "Islamic knowledge" becoming a criterion for selection to academic posts. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan provided the excuse for the adoption of "jihad" as state policy as well as a medley of irregular forces, liberally funded by American and Saudi money. The madrassas became not only the supply factories for irregular soldiers, but also the breeding ground for armed bands that are holding Pakistan hostage today.

    If it had been only a question of an individual's excesses Zia's death could have been a swivel moment for the restoration of the pre-Zia era, particularly since his successor was Benazir Bhutto. But in the quarter century since his sudden death by mid-air explosion, no one in Islamabad has had the courage to change the curriculum or challenge the spread of the madrassas. There are now over 20,000 of them, with perhaps two million students, most (not all) of them controlled by extremists. Worse, prompted by thoughtless advice, Benazir engineered the rise of the Taliban and helped it conquer Kabul. The children of Gen Zia are now threatening Islamabad. Sometimes a simple fact can illuminate the nature of a society. During the 2005 earthquake, male students of the Frontier Medical College were stopped by religious fanatics - their elders - from saving girls from the rubble of their school building. The girls were allowed to die rather than be "polluted" by the male touch. This would be inconceivable in India.

    For six decades, power in Pakistan has teetered between military dictatorship and civilian rule. When the credibility of civilians was exhausted the people welcomed the army; when the generals overstayed their welcome, the citizen returned to political parties. Pakistan is facing a dangerous moment, when the credibility of both the military and politicians seems to have ebbed beyond recovery. How long before the poor and the middle classes turn to the theocrats waiting to take over? The state has already handed over a province like Swat to Islamic rule. Men like Baitullah Mehsud, Mangal Bagh and Maulana Faziullah are a very different breed from the mullahs who have already been co-opted and corrupted by the system. They have a supplementary query which resonates with the street and the village after 9/11: why is Pakistan's army fighting America's war against fellow Muslims? Any suggestion that Pakistan might have become a much larger base for terrorists than Afghanistan ever was is met with the usual response, denial.

    On the day that terrorists attacked Sri Lankan cricketers, I had a previously arranged speaking engagement at a university in Delhi before largely Muslim students. I began with the suggestion that every Indian Muslim should offer a special, public prayer of thanks to the Almighty Allah for His extraordinary benevolence - for the mercy He had shown by preventing us from ending up in Pakistan in 1947. The suggestion was received with startled amusement, instinctive applause and a palpable sense of sheer relief.
     
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    awesome. thanks for posting ^^ niteshji :)
     
  9. musalman

    musalman پاکستان زنده باد

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    sheer laga hai :)
     
  10. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    What does that mean ??? :helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie:
     
  11. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    pakistan as an “islamic state” was a flawed concept right from the day of its inception and so was its theory of two nation or else this would have been a country of some 500million muslims and not just some 170million who now are hellbent to make that nation a medieval era islamic state with ultra orthodox implementation/interpretation of quran. the first set back to the theory came when a decent chunk of the muslim community then decided to stay back in india, second happened when bangladesh was created, now that flawed concept is again being challenged when the oppressed baluch fight for liberation from the oppressors and for the creation of their motherland as a separate country on similar lines to 1971 and look at the irony in all this when india is still able to boost second highest muslim population in the world and interestingly second to not pakistan but indonesia and certainly more than those in pakistan and bangladesh respectively. the very core issue on which pakistan was formed was flawed and as of date it is a completely failed and a redundant concept. if people recall the 80s, most would recall how the then generation of pakistan boasted of better roads, or better serials, or better cars, etc compared to india, but do they dare make a comparison today, and i dare say they do not for one country has risen and risen and is only expected to rise further and if all were to go right then in every rightful sense lead this world on most aspects which are of essence to human dignity but the other from a very good platform in the 80s has only gone down the drains and is seen as good as a failed state.


    the mess that paksitan finds itself today has its pointers in too many directions, and will try talk about a few of them. pakistan military has played a big role in this destruction by way of the successive coups which have only resulted in weakening of all their institutions, and they have not even spared themselves. india's success today instills in its core the four pillars of democracy namely legislature, executive, judiciary, press, which bind us together and take us forward in a progressive manner, are these even remotely present in todays pakistan, one very much doubts.


    legislature:
    the concept of legislature has never been allowed to flourish in pakistan, because of the successive coups that country has seen, so if you do not have the legislature in place then there will never be a representation of what the general public feels, which will only alienate the public. the main role of the legislature is to make the laws and make amendments in the existing ones with changing times the mantel of which has been taken over by the various military dictators whom that country has seen over a period of time. if we look at pakistan's constitution it looks like a joke, a joke that has been fiddled with once too many times as per the wishes of the dictators and then as and when there were civilian governments they taking a leaf from their military counter parts books have done the same to the constitution and when ever they have got a chance to set the records straight like in present circumstances have not made the required rectifications just for some petty personal gains where personal gains are seen as more important than the nation.


    executive:
    executive has the responsibility of running the bureaucracy of a state but once there is a dictator running the show of a country then they become a tool at the hands of that one person and are forced to follow all that one person has in mind and when this happens the very fabric of all the relevant institutions of a country change and all become a toll to further the cause of the concerned dictator. when such powers start flowing through the bureaucratic setup of a country then the executive becomes an evil in itself which starts finding itself unchallenged and then comes a time when this setup thinks of itself as the only real government and this in turn means the total collapse of the implementation of the will of the people of that country and this in turn gives rise to extremely wide spread corruption in every which way one could think of.


    judiciary:
    the place which is seen as giving justice to people, a place where one sees the law of the land being implemented have today become tools at the hand of the ruling governments, like what we have recently seen happening with the recent ruling of dismissal of shareif brothers from contesting any further elections. this has not happened for the first time, every time there has been a coup the then supreme court judges have always been forced to uphold the coup as a necessity in the interest of the nation. then this toll has been used to settle scores by the ruling elite against their opponents. now think of it, if this is what all can happen with the high and mighty of pakistan then there would be practically no hearing and justice to the weaker sections of society in a country which once was seen as the second most corrupt country in the world.


    press
    pakistani media has shown signs of resistance but does not look would last for long as we have seen in the past how quickly there are blackouts of these television networks once the high headed ruler thinks he has had enough from the media, if he has been targeted or if he sees he has done something that would buy him bad publicity and then even the non state controlled media is forced to toe the line as the then ruler wants it to. people would recall how the geo network was threatened, ransacked by the pak authorities when they resisted any such move of being controlled by the pak authorities on the insistence of then dictator musharraf. press as per the present president of pakistan is seen as a terror outfit, now that pretty well shows the plight of press in pakistan, where every year the highest percentage of press reporters are killed as a percentage of its population.


    the two institutions which are relevant in pakistan are pak army and the isi, and these have become so big that the legislature gets completely dwarfed and other three become a toll in their hands. wrong ethos wrong values have been instilled in the people living in that part of the world and now they are pinning their hopes in an islamic revolution of sorts, to which i dont have a problem but even here they have made a start full of blunders. they have given into a group of people which only believes in the violent version of quran and this again will prove a flawed concept which will eventually fail, no wonder the saying goes, “history repeats itself”!
     
  12. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Awesome post Ritesh... did you write that yourself ???
     
  13. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    yes sir, though took time but the post nitesh made inspired me to see the other side of it, rather than something that gets talked about all the time in the press.
     
  14. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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  15. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    thread merged.
     

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