Was creation of bangladesh a blunder?

neo29

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During the 1971 war, US did bring its Aircraft Carrier in the Bay of Bengal. It was due to the Nixon administration who were not too happy with Indira Gandhi seeking independent East Pakistan. Still the intention of the US to deploy an AC in Bay of Bengal was unknown but for sure to expel India from East Pakistan or atleast to bring ceasefire. But thanks to Soviet subs that followed them the US carrier left the region. This move was purely the result of Nixon Adminstration. Later Administrations did criticize such a move by earlier Administration.

Still a million dollar question whether US would have attacked India if it werent for the Soviets??
 

johnee

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Bangladesh was not created by India.

India only gave the nudge.
Agreed Sir. But how important was that 'nudge' of India? I think very crucial, without India's nudge, Bangladesh would have continued to be a troubled part of East Pakistan just like NWFP or Balochistan are troubled parts of today's pakistan.

The Bengalis, rightly or wrongly, have historically never allowed any alien culture to swamp their linguistic and cultural heritage.

Jinnah thought that the Islamic cry would be stronger than culture and like other Pakistanis, the Bengali Muslims would accept Urdu and the non Bengali culture. But that was not so, right from the days immediately after Partition.

Further, the Bengalis were as different as chalk and cheese, compared to the ethnicity of their West Pak brothers, including the Mohajirs. Therefore, they did not willingly blend.

Pakistan Army's atrocities broke the camel's back.

Bangladesh came into being.

One less cohesive headache for India, if you will.
If we replace Bengalis with pashtuns or balochis(perhaps in some cases even sindhis), even then most of what you say rings true. This is the nature of the beast. Pakistan is a pakjabi ruled state where other ethinicities are subjugated one way or the other. If sama, dana, bheda fail then PA enters the equation to perpetuate the hegemony of pakjabis in Pakistan. This happened with Bengalis. This is happening to varied degrees in Balochistan and NWFP. This will happen even in Sindh if things get to that level.
 

anoop_mig25

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one question out off context but whether sindh region of pakistan has any sindhi population sindhi in a sense orignal or all migrate to india
 

Yatharth Singh

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If seen as the strategic point of view then yes creation of Bangladesh was necessary otherwise today Pakistan would have surrounded India on two fronts. Also it would have tried to separate the N.E region from India under Chinese influence. I almost shake when I think of the situation, if Bangladesh would not have been created and Pakistan had blocked the way to N.E via Sikkim as they done in Kargil then China would have iasily occupied the entire N.E.
Therefore, creation of Bangladesh according to me was not a blunder.
 

SHASH2K2

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If seen as the strategic point of view then yes creation of Bangladesh was necessary otherwise today Pakistan would have surrounded India on two fronts. Also it would have tried to separate the N.E region from India under Chinese influence. I almost shake when I think of the situation, if Bangladesh would not have been created and Pakistan had blocked the way to N.E via Sikkim as they done in Kargil then China would have iasily occupied the entire N.E.
There creation of Bangladesh according to me was not a blunder.
Its always better to have 2 small enemies than having one big enemies. Bangladesh is a lot peaceful neighbour compared to Pakistan. Cannot imagine is Pakistan was on our eastern front as well. definitely its not a blunder . Its wonder for us.
 

Ray

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If seen as the strategic point of view then yes creation of Bangladesh was necessary otherwise today Pakistan would have surrounded India on two fronts. Also it would have tried to separate the N.E region from India under Chinese influence. I almost shake when I think of the situation, if Bangladesh would not have been created and Pakistan had blocked the way to N.E via Sikkim as they done in Kargil then China would have iasily occupied the entire N.E.
Therefore, creation of Bangladesh according to me was not a blunder.

Let us hypothetically take it that East Pakistan still existed.

As we know China is the best chum of Pakistan.

Now imagine hypothetically a Chinese thrust from East Pakistan through the Siliguri Corridor linking Nepal.

Result: NE isolated!! Various insurgent and terrorist groups of the NE subsidised and organised by China (though they deny it), gets activated.

Net result?
 

pankaj nema

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I971 defeat put FEAR IN PAKISTANI hearts.

Till 1971 pakistan only hated India . After that it was both FEAR and hatred.

A stubborn enemy that live and thrives on its so called " historical supremacy" has to be TAMED with one DECISIVE DEFEAT. To crush its EGO.

If East pakistan still existed today, then Indian Army would have to be told to prepare for a three front war
China wold have definitely attacked a second time till now in sikkim and Tawang and Pakistan aided terrorism would have been very active in North east along with insurgency in Kashmir.

A few ballistic missiles and A couple of Nukes would have been present in today's bangladesh.

The hindus of Bangladesh would have been wiped out.

Bangladesh border is long and porous .We would need 5 lakh more men in our Army to effectively patrol it.

Above all Pakistan would be known as A country with 330 million people and around 330 Billion GDP.

Today Pakistanis CRINGE AT THEIR SMALL SIZE AND SMALL ECONOMY. Pakistani EGO would have been much bigger than it is today.
 

Iamanidiot

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partition of bangladesh is a certainity.There are severe geographical limitations to the set-up of east pakistan ,Couple it with yahya and ayub khans idiocy yes its creation was always in the cards
 

civfanatic

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Islamic conquest of India...Ghazni's repeated failures but one mega success.....mughal rule...etc.
How are those people (Ghaznavids, Arabs, Mongols, etc.) related to present-day Pakistanis?
 

pankaj nema

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Pakistanis after partition DEFINED themselves as " direct descendents " of MUGHALS.
The Pakistanis LOOKED AT THEMSELVES as people who ruled the sub continent before arrival of the British

Then the Martial race theory became the BIBLE of the Pakistani Army .According to which Muslims of North west , pre partition India were a superior and a warrior race .Hindus according to Pak Army could not fight.

This Martial race theory got a further boost after our defeat in 1962 war.
In 1965 war Pakistanis declared that ONE MUSLIM IS EQUAL TO TEN HINDU SOLDIER.

They were confident of victory, but were SHOCKED by the result of the war.

However 1965 was not fully satisfying for India Because of the cease fire.

Hence the 1971 victory was MUCH NEEDED for Indian Armed Forces,to set the record straight AND BURY THE Martial Race theory FOR EVER
 

civfanatic

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Pakistanis after partition DEFINED themselves as " direct descendents " of MUGHALS.
The Pakistanis LOOKED AT THEMSELVES as people who ruled the sub continent before arrival of the British

Then the Martial race theory became the BIBLE of the Pakistani Army .According to which Muslims of North west , pre partition India were a superior and a warrior race .Hindus according to Pak Army could not fight.
What a huge inferiority complex these people have.
Direct descendants of Mughals?? :emot15:

I wonder what madrassas teach about Pakistani history before 700 A.D.
 

Iamanidiot

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rajputs were the sword arm of the mughal empire not muslims nor turanis nor iranis.The mughal empire was built on rajput blood..Soldiers supplied from the lands of Amber(jaipur),Marwar ,Ranathambore and bundhelkhand.The topmost nobles ,the highest ranking mansabdars(the ones with 7000 sawars and zats) were rajputs (Raja Jai Singh,Raja Ajit Singh,Jaswant Singh,Raja Baramal) not the the paki ancestors as pakis think .Infact Akbars greatest liutenants were rajputs.Barring the Mughal emperor most of the nobility was Rajputs,iranians and Shahikazdas.Off all the three only the Rajput families survive rest all were butchered during the aftermath of revolt of 1857
 

pankaj nema

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What a huge inferiority complex these people have.
Direct descendants of Mughals?? :emot15:

I wonder what madrassas teach about Pakistani history before 700 A.D.
In Pakistan school text books, History begins when the first Arabs landed in Sind .The Arab prince named Bin Qasim who established the Arab rule in Sind Is the first Ruler of Pakistan.

Mohenjadaro , Harrappa, Indus valley civilisations are all ignored.

The British Rule is DEPICTED as a CONPIRACY BY HINDUS . To snatch power from Muslims.
Hindu bashing is the first subject that they are taught.

That explains how even the present generation has been radicalised .
 

Ray

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Will Pakistan's schools get a curriculum that weed's out hate?

Tuesday 9 June 2009, by Nirupama Subramanian

The Hindu, June 9, 2009
Awaiting changes to a syllabus of hate

by Nirupama Subramanian

All the focus is on madrasa reforms but Pakistan's schools are also seen as encouraging extremism, while the government has shown little urgency about implementing a revised curriculum.

On a recent weekday afternoon, a small group of youngsters gathered at a meeting hall in Islamabad to discuss how to combat extremism, militancy and terrorism in Pakistan. Listed were top-notch speakers, including two members of Parliament and the well-known physicist, Pervez Hoodbhoy.

Dr. Hoodbhoy, who teaches at the Quaid-e-Azam University in the Pakistan capital, spoke passionately and at length, on a theme that he has worked to highlight for years: the education imparted to Pakistani children is flawed and encourages extremism, intolerance and ignorance. He showed the group, mostly undergraduate students, slides from an illustrated primer for the Urdu alphabet he picked from a shop in Rawalpindi: alif for Allah; bay for bandook (gun); tay for takrao (collision, shown by a plane crashing into the Twin Towers); jeem for jihad; kay for khanjar (dagger); and hay for hijab.

This was not a prescribed textbook, but another set of slides he showed had excerpts from a 1995 government-approved curriculum for Social Studies, which stated that at the end of Class V, the child should be able to acknowledge and identify forces that may be working against Pakistan; demonstrate by actions a belief in the fear of Allah; make speeches on jehad and shahadat (martyrdom); understand Hindu-Muslim differences and the resultant need for Pakistan; India´s evil designs against Pakistan; be safe from rumour-mongers who spread false news; visit police stations; collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and National Guards; and demonstrate respect for the leaders of Pakistan.

"Instead of teaching our children about the nice things in this world like the colours of flowers, about the wonders of the universe, we are teaching them to hate," he said. The school curriculum was one reason, he said, why Pakistanis were in denial that the militants and extremists now terrorising the entire country were home-grown products, and why many tended to externalise the problem with conspiracy theories about an "external" hand.

At the end of the discussion, which included a question-and-answer session, the group was asked how many thought Pakistan´s present problems were the consequence of an "Indian hand." A quarter of the group put up its hands. Next, the students were asked how many thought the problems were the result of an American conspiracy to destabilise Pakistan and deprive it of its nuclear weapons: more than three-fourths of the group sent their hands up without a moment´s hesitation.

The irony was that this was the "youth group" of a non-governmental organisation, the Liberal Forum of Pakistan. The students had reserved their maximum applause for a speaker who projected the widespread line that Pakistan´s problems began only after 2001, and are the fallout of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

"Was there a single incident of terrorism before that? A single suicide bombing? No." he said. The speaker was an official of the Ministry of Youth Affairs.

In the search for solutions to the crisis sweeping Pakistan and threatening to tear it apart, the international community has tended to focus on madrasas as "terrorist factories." But for Dr. Hoodbhoy and others who have been fighting a long battle for urgent changes in Pakistan´s national school curriculum and the prescribed school textbooks, children getting a government-approved education in the public school system are at equal risk.

"Madrasas are not the only institutions breeding hate, intolerance, a distorted world view. The educational material in government-run schools do much more than madrasas. The textbooks tell lies, create hatred, inculcate militancy"¦" This was the damning conclusion of a landmark research project by the Islamabad-based Sustainable Development Policy Institute.

For three years, 30 scholars commissioned by SDPI pored over textbooks in four subjects taught for Classes 1 to 12: Social Studies/Pakistan Studies, Urdu, English and Civics. The startling findings of their labour came out in a 2004 publication, "The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan."

The much-written about research unleashed a huge debate on what was being taught in Pakistan´s schools, and became the basis for a major revision of the national curriculum undertaken by the Musharraf regime in 2006. The new curriculum has made several big changes. There is a conscious move to teach tolerance and respect for diversity, and the open vilification of India is absent. It also does not insist on imposing Islamic religious teaching on non-Muslim students. Religion is to be taught in focussed courses, rather than being infused in Social Studies, Civics, Urdu and English.

Unfortunately, so far, no move has been made to introduce new textbooks that reflect the changes. "The revised curriculum is a huge departure from the earlier one. But whether the changes it prescribes will be implemented at all is not clear to us. The more it is delayed, the less and less we are sure it is going to come," said A.H. Nayyar, research fellow at SDPI and one of the initiators of the project.

The changes in the curriculum are up on the Internet site of the Ministry of Education. For Grades 4 and 5 Social Studies, the curriculum has dropped the learning outcomes prescribed by the 1995 and 2002 curricula, focussing instead on providing an "unbiased" education that aims to build informed citizens equipped with analytical skills and "values such as equality, social justice, fairness, diversity, and respect for self and diverse opinions of others."

The SDPI recommendation that history be taught as a separate subject instead of being lumped into Pakistan Studies was accepted by the framers of the revised curriculum. So, for the first time, a curriculum has been framed for history as a separate subject from Grades 6 to 8.

In contrast to the earlier approach in the Pakistan Studies curriculum, in which the history of Pakistan begins with the day the first Muslim set foot in India, the revised curriculum includes a study of the Indus valley civilisation, of Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, and of the ancient Maurya and Gupta dynasties.

The curriculum appears keen to emphasise a composite South Asian history from which Pakistan took birth including the "joint Hindu-Muslim" efforts in the struggle for independence. The Pakistan Studies curriculum for Grades 9 and 10 wants children to learn about the multicultural heritage of Pakistan and "get used to the idea of unity in diversity," a big no-no earlier. The revised curriculum also has a component on "peace studies" and conflict resolution.

One reason new textbooks based on the revised curriculum have not come out yet, Dr. Nayyar speculated, may be that the 1998 national educational policy introduced by the shortlived Nawaz Sharif government, remains in force till 2010. The Pakistan People´s Party-led government could be waiting to introduce its own education policy, and usher in the changes to the curriculum and the textbooks along with this, he said.

Even the draft new education policy is ready, based on a two-year-old White Paper. It too reflects a major shift from the 1998 policy, which laid down that education should enable the citizens to lead their lives as true practising Muslims according to the teachings of Islam as prescribed in the Quran and Sunnah. It also made the teaching of Nazra Quran a compulsory subject from Grades 1 to 8, and the learning of selected verses from the Quran thereafter, in clear violation of the Constitution that Islam will not be imposed on non-Muslims.

By contrast, the draft new policy makes it clear that only Muslim children will be provided instruction in Islamiyat, while minorities will be provided an education in their own religion. The new policy will provide the framework for the implementing the new curriculum and introducing new textbooks.

The bad news is that in April, the federal Cabinet put off approving the draft indefinitely. Only after the Cabinet approves the policy can it be placed before Parliament. A report in Dawn newspaper said the Cabinet wanted the Education Ministry to make the policy "more comprehensive, covering every aspect of education sector which needs improvement along with an implementable work plan." But no urgency is visible in the Ministry to get cracking on this task. Another concern is that the Education Minister is not known for his progressive views, especially on gender issues.

"My fear," said Dr. Nayyar, a soft-spoken physicist who retired from teaching at the Quaid-e-Azam University some years ago, "is that the government may not have the political strength to bring in a progressive education policy. They may succumb to pressures of various kinds and end up bringing in a hopelessly muddled policy."

Yet the need for reforms in education has never been as urgent and necessary as now. As Dr. Hoodbhoy has pointed out in several recent articles, while a physical takeover of Pakistan by the Taliban may be a far cry, extremist ideology has taken root in young minds across the country, thanks to a flawed education system.

Compared to the 1.5 million who study in madrasas, an estimated 20 million children are enrolled in government schools. Dr. Nayyar laments that in the five years since the publication of the SDPI report, children who were 11 years old at the time have completed their matriculation. They read the old textbooks, and learnt a way of thinking about themselves and the world that will prove hard to change.

"Another generation has been lost because the process has taken too long," he said. And until the new textbooks are introduced, millions of children will continue to learn in their Urdu lessons in schools about the differences between Hindus and Muslims in a hatred-generating way, about "India's evil designs against Pakistan" in their Social Studies, and that Bangladesh was a result of a conspiracy by India with assistance from "Hindus living in East Pakistan."

Education based on Hate
 

Iamanidiot

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Ray sir the nation is WTF .The more we know of Pakistan the more we understand that they are being done a sort of nazification.Gobbels was given that credit in germany.Where as we have to give Zia and the military the credit for this.Looking 60 years back in hindsight sir partition was a good thing it gave india a stable polity and a stable set-up.Without any blackmail politics of the muslim league
 

Shaitan

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@JPraveen

Didnt many Mughal emperors born from rajput women? Like almost every emperor after akbar was birthed by a rajput.

thats why they looked like babur the first mugha(mongol) emperor



and many year of breeding with rajputs

Bahadur Shah II



childern



wife

 

civfanatic

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In Pakistan school text books, History begins when the first Arabs landed in Sind .The Arab prince named Bin Qasim who established the Arab rule in Sind Is the first Ruler of Pakistan.

Mohenjadaro , Harrappa, Indus valley civilisations are all ignored.

The British Rule is DEPICTED as a CONPIRACY BY HINDUS . To snatch power from Muslims.
Hindu bashing is the first subject that they are taught.

That explains how even the present generation has been radicalised .
What a horrible fate, to be denied the history of your own country. We Indians can be proud of Mauryas, Kushanas, Guptas, Cholas, Vijayanagar, even the Mughals (not all the Mughal emperors were bloodthirsty Muslims; they played a big role in making India the richest country of 16th-18th centuries). We can learn from these past peoples - their achievments, their mistakes, their ideals - and make them the basis of our own identity.

Pakistanis can only be proud of being the bitches of Arabs :emot15:
 

neo29

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Its a world know fact that the India subcontinent was ruled by various Hindu dynasty. The spread of islam was accepted during that time and both races lived together in peace and harmony. Even during the reign of Akbar the great, Hindu's and Muslims lived together with any distinction. It was when Aurangzeb became the Mughal emperor, he started spreading anti hindu sentiments and forced conversion of hindu's. Rest is history with rise and fall of maratha empire and the british invasion.

Pakistan has been fed with false patriotism that their ancestors ( mughals ) ruled the subcontinent and Hindus snatched it. They are seem to forget that decendents of mughals live in peace and harmony in India too.
When they have been brainwashed over the years about wrong history and facts, and their children too are taught the same with more alterations, then nothing can be done with them. Simple policy "You keep your ideology, and i keep mine". But the in end the world is a smaller place now and facts and history are researched by everyone.

The world believes grass is green, if pakistan thinks its red let it be so, its pak thats becoming a laughing stock to the world for following a history that doesnt exists.
 
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