Wal-Mart to enter Gujarat via Anand

[Bangalorean]

LOL, let's look at this argument: "election is near and raul baba and his chamchas will need money to win elections or buy MLA/MPs.".

Maybe we should "ban" reliance. And Tata. And Bharti Airtel. And Mahindra. And Hinduja group. And Birla group. And Bajaj.

After all, rahul baba and his chamchas need money to win elections, why not deny them the supply?

 

[utubekhiladi]

Ok first of 60 Cr INR is around 11 million dollars.

That is about 1000 times smaller than the amount you previously mentioned saying 11 billion dollars in lobbying. HUGE difference.

like i said, give me a day or two and i will throw their balance sheet on your face plus, today is sunday, i can't get anything

 

[utubekhiladi]

LOL, let's look at this argument: "election is near and raul baba and his chamchas will need money to win elections or buy MLA/MPs.".

Maybe we should "ban" reliance. And Tata. And Bharti Airtel. And Mahindra. And Hinduja group. And Birla group. And Bajaj.

After all, rahul baba and his chamchas need money to win elections, why not deny them the supply?

is that the best defense argument you can come up with? who has much more liquid cash to give away? walmart or reliance?

 

[utubekhiladi]

If monopoly is a genuine concern it may be started with regulated locations, like what s done in Shanghai or Shenzhen. I recall they once only granted Carrefour or Walmart to open new stores on outskirts.

And my personal experience tells a prospering neighborhood grows up around Metro and Sam's Club which used to be on the 'outskirts" (not any longer).

And in China FDI in multibrand retailing is 100% foreign stake, at least for the mentioned names.

In order to have a cost advantage they try to source directly as much as possible and even created their brands like "Member's Mark" for Walmart.

that's very good point you made there. you have read my mind.

 

[Bangalorean]

is that the best defense argument you can come up with? who has much more liquid cash to give away? walmart or reliance?

That was not a "defense argument" at all?

I was just trying to show you how ridiculous your argument was.

Looks like you don't want to accept that your argument was ridiculous - instead, you're coming up with this "who has more" question. Most irrelevant question.

Reliance will spend more - they have always spent more, they will continue to spend more How much cash wal-mart has is not important.

11 billion is a huge, gigantic amount. 11 million is more believable, like ejazr said. If you think wal-mart is going to spend all its cash reserves on rahul baba and his chamchas, you need to think again.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Reliance will spend more - they have always spent more, they will continue to spend more How much cash wal-mart has is not important.

 

[utubekhiladi]

walmart should get only 49% in cash and carry business type. not 100%. thanks to all its lobbying and lobbyist.

 

[Bangalorean]

No, seriously - think about it. If Reliance has $200 billion and wal-mart has $600 billion, does it make any difference? Neither is going to spend more than a few millions anyway, no? How do wal-mart's cash reserves matter here?

Rahul and his chamchas will try to extract money from every businessman out there. Ambanis, Tatas, Jindals, Birlas - everyone will pitch in. The fact that a company can bribe politicians should not even be a factor in making policy decisions.

Your other arguments like Chinese goods, Indian traders, etc. are at least relevant to the discussion - wal-mart's cash reserves in respect of bribing politicians are not.

walmart should get only 49% in cash and carry business type. not 100%. thanks to all its lobbying and lobbyist.

In any case it will be mainly cash-and-carry type of business. The housewives who buy vegetables from the Thela in the evening aren't about to make a trip to wal-mart giving up their thela wala. It will be the extremely rare family outing when they get to go to wal-mart, in any case.

Since there are so many concerns, I think we should allow wal-mart and co. only in the big 3 - Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore. And see how it goes.

 

[nrj]

Brace yourselves, sooner or later we are going to open entire economy including retail, agri sector.

In the meantime, people will debate to kill the time.

 

[panduranghari]

i am writing this post from a country which is dominated by walmart. so i know all about how walmarts operates.

The pervasive effects of the presence of walmart type stores is seen in US very well. We must learn from their mistakes. Similar to the problems brought about by the practices of the insurance and banking industry, we must also learn from industries like Walmart. We do not need them as much as they need us.

Just because the other emerging economies have done the multi brand retail, we should not. We have not much to gain.

 

[panduranghari]

would care to explain how?

remember, walmarts mission is to make huge profits for their investors and share holders. they are not god sent angels and saints who really give shyt to your farmers. they just don't care about your farmers. their mission is to make huge profits at any costs.

in america every single farmers have debt from 700,000 to 20,000,000 billion usd dollars. yes every single one of them. and these farmers make only 18,000 to 35,000 usd dollars per year. when are they going to pay their debt? this fact is very well explained in "Food INC" documentary. so much for brands like walmarts helping local farmers would like me to explain how brands like walmarts honey traps local farmers in to mountain of debts

Food Inc. is a must watch documentary. It shows how we will mess up the country if we don't take head.

 

[panduranghari]

How many farmers are complaining about that? Farmers prefer to sell these stores because they get a better price and are paid on time.
Here are some success stories in India in the Cash and Carry business.

If you have a better alternative to competition and open market, lets hear about it.

I think you are referring to initial stages to get the suppliers on board. The price remains high. When more sign up, the over supply leads to culling of the number of suppliers.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Who makes money from a pint of milk?

The supermarkets' margin on fresh milk has increased steadily over the years, according to DairyCo figures. The big few enjoy considerable bargaining power with many of their suppliers, so can keep prices competitive for customers.
"Farmers have been placed under extreme pressure by retailers and the service sector for far too long to produce milk at the lowest price possible, and they continue to make a loss," says the RABDF's spokesman.
But retailers say paying farmers a fair price is important. While Tesco, the UK's largest supermarket group, will not discuss margins - "it's commercially sensitive," says a spokeswoman - in 2007 it signed up its own group of dairy farmers, paying above the market rate for their milk

On the other hand, we have farmers KILLING themselves in govt. provided debt and are forced to sell to the middlemen or sell to the govt. under an inefficient flat price and quota system messing the entire market fundamentals.

The best choice is farmers co-operative. Another option is APMC.

http://msamb.com/english/schemes/default.htm

Objectives of Shetkari Bazar

To help farmers to get the reasonable rates to their produce.
To benefit consumers by giving him fresh produce at reasonable prices.
Immediate value realisation of the produce to the farmers without any deductions.
To provide produce in appropriate weights and measures to consumer.
To bring Producers and Consumers together to avoid chain of middlemen.

 

[panduranghari]

watch the below mentioned documentary when you have spare time. if you are NRI, specially living in USA then my 50 dollars says that you will hate your very next meal.

I became a vegetarian after watching this movie.

 

[nrj]

A big NO to APMC in current form. Either dump it or revise it drastically.

 

[panduranghari]

Your points simply go against my experience. In cities I live there're all such big names plus indigenous lesser competitors, plus numerous mom-n-pop stores. They're running fine (at least seemingly) side by side.
.

However, in the countries where these supermarkets were born the situation is a lot different. Give it another 30 odd years and you may see a different situation.

 

[panduranghari]

Still the policy was 51% FDI. And we already have 100% Cash and Carry FDI, how many local wholesalers have gone out of business the last decade? And we have Indian companies investing billions of dollars outside India, I don't believe for a second that local Indian companies don't have enough capital to invest within India. Particularly when only 51% is allowed, these foreign retailers will HAVE to partner with a local retailer. There is no other way around it.

What I was saying with that example is that despite 100% FDI in retail countries like Indonesia where I am sure has less dollar billionaires and millionaires than India, Walmart and other retailers still have a market share of between 10-30%. Local retailers are still thriving and competing. The point is to shake up the market, make it free and allow healthy competition. Particularly in the farm sourcing sectors and the consumer retail sector where both are suffering.

You do make some interesting points. However, the time scale if 10 years is too small to make valid comparisons.

Allowing healthy competition is different from giving companies like Walmart the permission to do whatever they wish. And they will dp whatever they wish. I would rather have they just provide the know how and we run the company. Perhaps franchisee based model? But giving them the control to run it is a bad move.

 

[panduranghari]

Can I have Wal-mart's balance sheet which has a "record of 11 billion dollars for lobbying in India"?

Lobbying by itself is not bad, bribing is. But even worse than either, is making allegations about a Fortune 5 company's "balance sheet" without credible evidence or sources.

Lobbying is trying to influence politicians to decide in your favor, while bribing means the same, except that there is an offer of money or property.
Lobbying is legal in US(although contentious), while bribery is out rightly illegal.

In India politicians are motivated by money. There is no difference in my opinion between the 2.

 

[panduranghari]

Brace yourselves, sooner or later we are going to open entire economy including retail, agri sector.

In the meantime, people will debate to kill the time.

Yes we will open the economy. Unfortunately for Americans or Brits or French. it will be on our terms not their.

 

[panduranghari]

A big NO to APMC in current form. Either dump it or revise it drastically.

Yes ut can be tweaked. There is room for discussion here. Walmart can bring its know how here. That is welcome.

 

[utubekhiladi]

The best choice is farmers co-operative. Another option is APMC.

AMUL - is very good example of co-operative society. AMUL means Anand Milk Union Limited. it was started by non-other than legendary sardar patel. the man who united this india.

watch the below documentary, it's very very well made. please watch i m begging you to watch it . i can't find the same documentary in english version. but i will keep searching

AMUL story of INDIA documentary in HINDI part 1

AMUL story of INDIA documentary in HINDI part 2