VSHORAD Tender for Air Defence

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Neil, Jan 8, 2012.

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WHICH : VSHORAD SHOULD INDIA BUY??

  1. RBS 70/NG – SAAB’s RBS 70

    28.0%
  2. StarStreak

    26.0%
  3. MISTRAL-2

    16.0%
  4. IGLA-S (SA-24)

    24.0%
  5. CHIRON

    6.0%
  1. Neil

    Neil Senior Member Senior Member

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    MBDA pitches Mistral for Indian VSHORAD tender

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    'With Mistral having already won a competition to arm India’s ALH Dhruv helicopters, MBDA has also been keen to propose all the advantages that the missile offers as a ground-based air defense weapon', calling the 'supply logistics', 'service and maintenance benefits' of a 'multiple use missile' to be 'an added advantage'.
    The French defense company, MBDA, is offering its Mistral system for the INR 27,000 crore (USD 5.4 billion) Indian tender for Very Short Range Air Defense (VSHORAD) systems. The company’s Corporate Marketing Director, Daniel Petit, spoke to StratPost about their proposal for the tender for over 800 launchers and 5,000 missiles.


    Designed from inception for tri-service requirements, Petit says the system on offer is the second generation Mistral, developed in the last decade. The system has already been selected for India’s Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH), something which could be an advantage for the company, in terms of logistics and ordinance management. “It means same logistic, same training – it’s a key advantage,” he points out, saying, “The Indian armed forces have selected already the system for the helicopter (Advanced Light Helicopter – Dhruv). Mistral is going to be – again the same missile. I’m talking about ATAM – it’s the Air-To-Air-Mistral.”
    A company statement says, ‘With Mistral having already won a competition to arm India’s ALH Dhruv helicopters, MBDA has also been keen to propose all the advantages that the missile offers as a ground-based air defense weapon’, calling the ‘supply logistics’, ‘service and maintenance benefits’ of a ‘multiple use missile’ to be ‘an added advantage’. The statement cites MBDA’s representative in India, Loïc Piedevache, as saying, “This could of course be a single Mistral production line in India for both the Dhruv and for the surface to air requirement should it be selected.”
    Imagining a scenario of a combat aircraft threat, Petit says, “With this system you have the possibility to activate, lock on a target and in less than a few seconds you are able to press the button and the missile will do the job.”
    “When I said the missile will do the job it means the gunner doesn’t have to aim the system on the target,” he emphasizes, saying, “The missile is able to engage the target immediately.”
    Petit says that they’ve reached a success rate of ‘close to 98 percent’ after having ‘fired more than 6,000 missiles’. “By success rate, it is the number of targets destroyed – not technical (hits), I’m talking about target destruction – 98 percent,” he says.
    Petit thinks the heat-seeking capability of the Mistral gives it advantages over other types of systems, like beam riders, upon which Saab’s RBS-70 offering is based. He says it might be difficult to engage small boats in rough seas with such a system. “Sometimes it is very difficult to aim or to lock on with a laser beam on the target. You can’t see it anymore,” he says.
    He takes another example. “You engage a helicopter which is maneuvering at very low, close to the earth. Generally, the new generation of combat helicopter using pop-up maneuver to engage and fire anti-tank missile – to give an example – with this system you have time to lock on and engage the helicopter – you launch the missile. The flight format of this (Mistral) weapon system is not ballistic but the missile is making a maneuver like this,” he says, swinging his hand in a swaying motion, then adds, “The missile will continue to seek the target even if the helicopter is going down below a tree or below a hill – if you’re using beam-riding, you’re losing targets.”
    The Mistral is a fire and forget, heat-seeking missile fitted with a ‘very heavy warhead’ weighing three kilograms, which Petit says is ‘quite heavy for this category of missile’. “At the same time it is fitted with impact and proximity fuse allowing the missile to be used against any type of target,” he says, explaining that the fuse allows the system to be used ‘against very low altitude, low flying targets’ and covers ‘all the spectrum for low altitude engagement against any air threat, including helicopter, combat aircraft, low flying cruise missiles, drones or bombs with engines’. The Mistral travels at a speed of Mach 2.5 and has a range beyond the Indian requirement of six kilometers.
    MBDA says that the passive Infra Red seeker makes Mistral very hard to detect by the intended target and emphasizes that the fire-and-forget feature is vital ‘when more than one in-coming target has to be confronted’.
    He says the Mistral can engage more than one target. “When having different firing posts, all the firing posts can be linked to the command post.” MBDA says it can also provide a mobile Mistral coordination post, MCP/IMCP to enable day and night coordination and monitoring of up to 12 various Mistral missile equipped ground based air defense units.
    The company says the missile weighs 18.7kgs and its MANPADS system is easily portable by two operators, one carrying the missile and the other the firing unit. It also comes with an optional IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) interrogator, which ‘operates while the target is being tracked’.



    MBDA pitches Mistral for Indian VSHORAD tender | StratPost



     
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  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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  4. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    PLZ NOTE I HAVE EDITED THE PICS WITH SPECIFICATIONS TO HELP IN COMPARISION


    The Chief of the Indian Army has recently warned that 97 % of India’s Air Defense is obsolete. Given the fact that the Indian Armed Forces fully realize that they might have to fight a two-pronged war in the near future against China and Pakistan this claim of the Army Chief cannot be taken lightly. To make matters worse Israel’s IMI and Germany’s Rheinmetall Air Defense, both offering advanced air defense systems, have been banned from conducting business with the Indian Defense Ministry for the next 10 years.

    India has to therefore seriously augment its Air Defense capabilities. Several ongoing programs include the replacement of SA-18 Very Short Range Air Defense Systems (VSHORAD), with modern weapons. The cost of the replacement, as anything in India – is huge: over replacement of about 800 launchers and initial delivery of 5,000 missiles, at a cost of 27,000 Crore (US$5.2 billion). Evaluations of some of the candidates are expected to commence in May–June this year. The ongoing DefExpo 2012 provides India with a unique opportunity to take a look at some of the most cutting edge Air Defense Systems that are on display.

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    Thales Starstreak, on display at Defexpo 2012. Photo: Binny Winson

    In contrast to the passive (UV/IR) guided weapons currently in operation, two VSHORAD systems employing laser-beam riding semi-active command to line of sight (SACLOS) guidance technique stood out in this year’s DefExpo. While such systems are presumably heavier and more complex, the more affordable cost of their seekerless missiles is bound to come to effect in the evaluating the total cost of ownership (including missiles, test and practice rounds).

    RBS 70/NG – SAAB’s RBS 70 comprises the missile in a launch container, a tripod firing stand and an optical sight. It is operable by one, and portable by three persons. The missile is outfitted with a solid propellant booster motor. When the operator fires the missile, the booster motor is ignited inside the launch tube and the missile is accelerated out of the tube. The control surfaces and the four fins open into position as the missile leaves the tube. The sustainer motor ignites after the missile has travelled a safe distance from the launch position.
    [​IMG]
    RBS-70 Man Portable Air Defense Missile launched on a test. Photo: Saab

    The booster is subsequently jettisoned. The RBS 70 has laser beam riding guidance, riding a laser signal being beamed from its own launch station, rather than being guided from the front towards the reflected signal from a laser designated target. The missile operator can locate a hostile target visually or the target can be detected by a search radar. When the target is acquired, the operator tracks the target and the Raytheon Cossor IFF880 friend or foe system interrogates the target. If the target is identified as friendly, a warning light in the sight is illuminated and the firing sequence is halted. The operator aims the missile towards the target, fires and tracks the target, thus aiming the laser guidance beam continuously at the target until the moment of impact. Speaking to Defense Update Saab’s spokesperson stated that as the laser beam riding guidance of the RBS 70 is located in the tail of the missile, it is extremely difficult to jam it, since the missile has no seeker head at the front.

    In 2011 Saab has introduced an improved version of the system, designated RBS 70NG (new generation), which is comprised of a new sight module, integrating a high resolution thermal imager allowing 24/7 operational capability.
    The new module enables advanced cueing and an auto tracker, to improve reaction times and target acquisition, and engagement, thus increasing the hit probability throughout the missile range. Improved guidance has also been introduced, to further increase performance both for manual and auto-tracker engagements. The system has a built-in video recorder for after-action review. With these improvements RBS 70NG offers a flexible and scalable evolution to meet evolving Ground Based Air Defense requirements with Man-Portable Air Defense System (MANPADS) as well as with remote-controlled or vehicular applications.
    [​IMG]
    The Starstreak's warhead combines three 'darts' each guided at the target and each inflicting heavy damage for maximum lethality. Photo: Thales

    StarStreak – Starstreak developed by the Thales group is a close-range anti-aircraft guided-weapon system designed for use against enemy helicopters and ground attack aircraft. Starstreak contains a two-stage solid propellant rocket motor, a separation system and three high-density darts. A pulse of power from the missile-firing unit sets off the first-stage motor that ignites and therefore increases the speed of the missile. The missile enters into a spin due the Canted nozzles. The efferent force of the roll causes the fins to unfold for aerodynamic stability in flight. Once clear of the canister, the motor is thrown out. The second-stage motor ignites and accelerates the missile to a velocity of Mach 4.

    A severance system at the front end of the motor holds three darts. When the second stage motor is burnt out, the propulsion triggers the three darts to automatically break up. The darts sustain a high kinetic energy as they are steered to the same target. Each dart includes guidance and control circuitry, a thermal battery and a high-density penetrating warhead with fuse. The severance of the darts kicks off the arming of the specific warheads. Each dart is steered independently using a double laser beam riding system. As the dart collides with the target, the inertial forces trigger the delay fuse, allowing the warhead to penetrate before detonation.

    [​IMG]
    MISTRAL 2

    MISTRAL-2 – Another competitor seeking the future Indian VSHORAD contract is the European company MBDA, offering the Mistral. This missile has already been selected to equip the Indian Dhruv Helicopter; therefore MBDA does have an advantage in terms of logistics and ordinance management. Moreover, the company has a production line for MILAN missiles established in India by Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL), where Mistral missiles could be produced, if the company wins this program. Other contenders include Rosoboronexport, offering a modern version of the IGLA-S (SA-24) and South Korean LIG Nex1, offering the Chiron.

    [​IMG]
    IGLA-S (SA-24) from KBM is the latest model of Russian MANPADS technology.

    IGLA-S (SA-24) – Similar to the Mistral, a major advantage of IGLA-S is its capability to use existing infrastructure, including DJIGHIT launchers and STERLETS command and control modules, or mobile carriers such as the SA-9 and SA-13 mobile air defense systems. IGLA-S offers superior performance over the IGLA / STRELA missiles, particularly in its immunity to countermeasures (conventional heat flares are useless against its IR seeker flares). According to Russian sources, it is also effective against fast, low flying cruise missiles or high flying but slow unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV). With a warhead 1.5 times larger than its predecessors, IGLA-S also offers 20 percent range increase, able to hit targets at a distance of six kilometers.

    [​IMG]
    chiron portable SAM

    CHIRON – The Korean LIG Nex1 Company has also entered the Indian VSHORAD, yet its product, the Chiron stands the lowest chance to win the technical or commercial phases. Although it uses elements of the Mistral missile to offer increased range over the Russian missile, its seeker, implementing Russian technology is considered less advanced than that of the SA-24. Reportedly, the Koreans are asking $175,000 per unit, which is more than double the cost of an IGLA-S.

    India’s Air Defense guns like the L-70 and ZU-23 are 40 years old and missile systems like the SA-2 have also become obsolete. This coupled with the fact that there are huge loopholes in the radar network means that the sky’s above India are completely insecure. Corrective measures need to be taken immediately and this year’s Defense Expo has certainly provided the answer to India’s quest for a modern air defense system.

    VSHORAD - India's Next Big Air Defense Program | Defense Update
     
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  5. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    My Vote to RBS 70/NG – SAAB’s RBS 70
     
  6. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    WELL i think STAR strek is the best SHORT range air defence missile for india ,i had seen it in discovery chanel future weapons serial

    ,i was impressed man:thumb:
     
  7. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    kuch to lelo. buy anything but buy atleast
     
  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I vote this...

     
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  9. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Why not modify the Nag to fit this role?

    Either way the American system is bound to be the best in this regard and we can go ahead and buy it because there will be no strings attached as it is an one time purchase.
     
  10. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    IDK... maybe because an expensive subsonic missile isn't a good choice for a SAM?
     
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  11. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Starstreak is probably the best among these, the 3 darts should ensure the highest probability of a kill between the rest of the weapons.

    However none of them is a true manpad, the entire system needs to be man portable, all these systems have an extensive kit to carry along, only the IGLA-S is truly man portable, the rest do not offer the luxury of rapid deployment on the move. In this case the best is still the upgraded Stinger, weighs 14kg including the missile and the person who fires can shoot and scoot, the others would take longer to scoot.
     
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  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Mistral-2 has the longest range and highest speed = clear winner
     
  13. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    what!!!! [​IMG] , i think there should be a rule in this forum people shouldnt be allowed to
    post while they are drunked [​IMG]

    even a blind man can say from the pics that mistral 2 has one of the least range among all the missiles
     
  14. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    plz cite the reason why u like it than others
     
  15. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    a very good point IGLA _S is truly man portable while others cant
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    6.5km of powered flight with Mach 2.5 speed... none of them have the kill envelop of the MPCV. Witness the power...

     
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  17. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Do not rush to buy anything. Keep the bribery packed dealers out. But buy for next 30 years. Until then the existing air defense systems are good. They have to shoot Pakistani planes which the existing systems can handle. Chinese will always theaten in the mountains of Tawang or Ladakh but stay out of a shooting context, because their modern planes would fly from far away bases (none in the neigbourhood to fly high performance planes from 7,000 ft) with tired pilots and easy prey to the Indian Airforce before they meet the local air defense system.
     
  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Based on the RFP participants, it doesn't look like shoulder fired MANPADs are the requirement.
     
  19. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    well u had missed out star strek range which is around 7KM & it missile speed is around mach 3.5 .

    also RBS 70NG also has MAX range of 8km but it's speed is less around 2 .
     
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  20. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    who knows ????:confused:
     

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