Villages across China

[Ray]

@kenduffy

Here is something that one can do even in remotest area


Maybe it will help you to overcome what you call Blah blah!

 

[pkroyal]

@kenduffy

Here is something that one can do even in remotest area


Maybe it will help you to overcome what you call Blah blah!

I have been to Tilonia twice.

Mr Bunker Roy is an amazing man

Incidentally two chiefs of Fauj have been to his Barefoot College for a visit.

He sits in a verandah, without any showing off or ceremony ( he is an International Celebrity) & has a great sense of humour.

 

[bennedose]

until the end of 2013, there are 1.23 million ppl in China have no access to electricity, coz these ppl are living in an area which are isolated by mountains, Tibet Plateaus, blabla. China plans to cover these areas until 2015 to get 100% coverage. So in nearly all villages they get power from national power grid. Solar panel cost is still more expensive than electricity from grid and thus is not popular. Running water is not a problem.

So the only thing these villages are doing is building new homes. No new environment friendly technology. Nothing world beating. Just old old tech houses, providing employment for builders and labour, keeps the money flowing for banks - and keeps the demand high for dirty power production in other parts of China. The problems are just postponed.

There is little for India to learn here.

 

[badguy2000]

until the end of 2013, there are 1.23 million ppl in China have no access to electricity, coz these ppl are living in an area which are isolated by mountains, Tibet Plateaus, blabla. China plans to cover these areas until 2015 to get 100% coverage. So in nearly all villages they get power from national power grid. Solar panel cost is still more expensive than electricity from grid and thus is not popular. Running water is not a problem.

1/10 of Chinese has no access to electricity？what a joke! my personal experience tells me that truth might be 1/100.

 

[kenduffy]

So the only thing these villages are doing is building new homes. No new environment friendly technology. Nothing world beating. Just old old tech houses, providing employment for builders and labour, keeps the money flowing for banks - and keeps the demand high for dirty power production in other parts of China. The problems are just postponed.

There is little for India to learn here.

there are of course a lot of eco/green/new engergy technologies in China and there are model cities/villages, as the link below shows. China produces 60% of solar panels in the world and is with the largest wind power market/infrastructure.


http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3495814

but right now it is not easy to expand that, you know everything need to be driven by market. The cost is too high at the moment.
but for now, yes, you are basically right, eco/green technologies havn't prevailed in China and even the world.
but just don't understand this sentence "keeps the demand high for dirty power production in other parts of China"
why it keeps the demand high for dirty power production in other parts of China?

 

[kenduffy]

1/10 of Chinese has no access to electricity？what a joke! my personal experience tells me that truth might be 1/100.

1.23 million, not 1.23 billion
so it is 0.01% of Chinese have no access to electricity

 

[kenduffy]

This photograph is contained in the above link.

Now call all these photographs as also computer generated

@kendaffy

first, I have never said the building or the landscape isn't there, I just said those advertisement pics looks "made by computers". Maybe there are made by computers in advance to show how the building/landscape will look like before the buildings are finished, or these advertisement are much processed pictures taken by cameras. But the processing is too inappropriate that it looks "fake".

second, from the real pictures you post, it shows that these landscapes or buildings are indeed not finished and I don't see the same landscape/building in the real pictures as those in the advertisement.

 

[Ray]

first, I have said the building or the landscape isn't there, I just said those advertisement pics looks "made by computers". Maybe there are made by computers in advance to show how the building/landscape will look like before the buildings are finished, or these advertisement are much processed pictures taken by cameras. But the processing is to inappropriate that it looks "fake".

second, from the real pictures you post, it shows that these landscapes or buildings are indeed not finished and I don't see the same landscape/building in the real pictures as those in the advertisement.

No, you are right we live in a delusion, even if we see it in real life.

Nothing is real except what your hallucinating states is right.

Why?

You are European and you can never be wrong!

Hey, you are right, I am seeing fakirs, Indian rope tricks and mendicants!

Actually, Europe thinking that they still rule the world is the real fake that they perpetrate as real.

 

[kenduffy]

@<a href="http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/member.php?u=15085" target="_blank">kenduffy</a>

Here is something that one can do even in remotest area


Maybe it will help you to overcome what you call Blah blah!

so you mean solar panel?

that is not going to be OK

China produces 60% of solar panels in the world, but it is still expensive even for developed nations, government need to subsidise it a lot.

Indeed, China has loads of cities and villages with solar panel as below, but at the moment is it not popular due to cost

and here is a video about a solar powered city

[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3495814[/video]

 

[Ray]

@kenduffy

if you cannot believe a video in front of an international audience, it indicates that you believe that pigs can fly.

Get off your supercilious high horse.

The world has changed in case it was too fast for your before you blinked an eye!

Reveille.

Solar panels are just one of the issues.

 

[kenduffy]

@kenduffy

if you cannot believe a video in front of an international audience, it indicates that you believe that pigs can fly.

Get off your supercilious high horse.

The world has changed in case it was too fast for your before you blinked an eye!

Reveille.

Solar panels are just one of the issues.

where did I say that I don't believe the video?

I never denied that it can be used in some areas, I just say solar panel is not possible to popular in a large scale at the moment coz it is expensive

 

[bennedose]

"keeps the demand high for dirty power production in other parts of China"
why it keeps the demand high for dirty power production in other parts of China?

Entire villages are being rebuilt with power hungry homes, with few new local measures for self sufficiency or reduction of demand for power. The power for these villages comes from the national grid - which depends on coal and hydroelectric power. The former particularly is very polluting. Maybe I don't understand China, but when people are being uprooted from villages in the name of urbanization and entire villages are being rebuilt - surely the people can be forced to accept a little bit more cost and discomfort by saying that all new houses should have solar power. I would have thought that rebuilding a village should be done keeping in mind the latest high tech in environment friendliness.

What about water supply and sanitation. Is there any recycling of water? Are there separate water supply pipes for irrigation/garden and for drinking?

 

[kenduffy]

Entire villages are being rebuilt with power hungry homes, with few new local measures for self sufficiency or reduction of demand for power. The power for these villages comes from the national grid - which depends on coal and hydroelectric power. The former particularly is very polluting.

You forget nuclear power station. China is upgrading coal power plant to reduce pollution while decreasing coal for power production. China is also heavily investing on new energy industries and environment protection industries, if you watch that video you will see the model for China's future.

Maybe I don't understand China, but when people are being uprooted from villages in the name of urbanization and entire villages are being rebuilt - surely the people can be forced to accept a little bit more cost and discomfort by saying that all new houses should have solar power. I would have thought that rebuilding a village should be done keeping in mind the latest high tech in environment friendliness.

New energy is still very expensive, even developed nation can't afford the cost now. Maybe we need to wait 30 or 60 or even 100 years for its popularity. However, ppl need modern and comfortable life earlier. 30 years later, these ppl may have died with their whole life living in not-so-comfortable houses
Why the ppl in the developed world is enjoying the modern comfortable life while we need to sacrifice 1 or several generations?

right now, since clean-energy electric bus/car is affordable for the population, China is severely promoting this industry.

What about water supply and sanitation. Is there any recycling of water? Are there separate water supply pipes for irrigation/garden and for drinking?

this is not a problem at all, running/recycling water and separation of water supply has been in place for many years.

 

[Ray]

where did I say that I don't believe the video?

I never denied that it can be used in some areas, I just say solar panel is not possible to popular in a large scale at the moment coz it is expensive

Well the panels are expensive also because of the structure and the fitments costs.

When it is DIY, then it is cheaper.

If the village folks, who are not literate can do it, so can others. That is the point.

Further, everything is costly in the developed world. But when it is done elsewhere the costs come down since all the labour, logistics etc are not expensive.

Try to see the whole picture and not compare without thinking through.

 

[kenduffy]

Well the panels are expensive also because of the structure and the fitments costs.

When it is DIY, then it is cheaper.

If the village folks, who are not literate can do it, so can others. That is the point.

Further, everything is costly in the developed world. But when it is done elsewhere the costs come down since all the labour, logistics etc are not expensive.

Try to see the whole picture and not compare without thinking through.

just one question, if it is easy and cheap, why so many areas in India are without electricity access?

 

[kenduffy]

 

[prohumanity]

Some of you on DFI are very western minded in your thinking...because you,only can see material part of the development of a society...that's the only measuring stick you are using. Development has many dimensions...yes, good homes, roads, physically comfortable environment is ONE dimension...
Other dimensions are societal harmony, functioning families and cohesive community, empathy and kindness for fellow countrymen. I live in West for over 25 years and I know West is very deficient in this second dimension...tell tale signs are (1) Dysfunctional families,(2) lack of trust among people,(3) extreme violence and drug addiction,(4) pathological narcissistic and selfish mindset (5) its all about I, Me and Myself mentality (6) arrogant attitudes about other civilizations and lack of respect for other cultures. Just having a big houses and driving an expensive cars does not make a nation Great.
Obama said today "We are the only exceptional nation and will always remain this way. (example of pathological narcissism) In past, Romans, Greeks, Peruvian , Persian and recently British civilizations ,probably thought in the same pathological narcissistic manner...Where are they now ?
humility and harmony with others , high values and remaining grounded in the reality of human lives .ability to feel and empathize with others' suffering ...are signs of a truly great civilization. So, look at the BIG picture and not just big houses !
A policeman who shoots and kills a unarmed teenager (without even thinking that that boy is someone's son, someones brother, someones dear friend) is a sign of a cruel, degraded nation even though it might have more material things.

 

[Ray]

just one question, if it is easy and cheap, why so many areas in India are without electricity access?

Because Bunker Roy has not visited there.

Where he has visited and worked, it has worked magnificently, to include some places in India, Afghanistan, Africa et al.

 

[Ray]

Some of you on DFI are very western minded in your thinking...because you,only can see material part of the development of a society...that's the only measuring stick you are using. Development has many dimensions...yes, good homes, roads, physically comfortable environment is ONE dimension...
Other dimensions are societal harmony, functioning families and cohesive community, empathy and kindness for fellow countrymen. I live in West for over 25 years and I know West is very deficient in this second dimension...tell tale signs are (1) Dysfunctional families,(2) lack of trust among people,(3) extreme violence and drug addiction,(4) pathological narcissistic and selfish mindset (5) its all about I, Me and Myself mentality (6) arrogant attitudes about other civilizations and lack of respect for other cultures. Just having a big houses and driving an expensive cars does not make a nation Great.
Obama said today "We are the only exceptional nation and will always remain this way. (example of pathological narcissism) In past, Romans, Greeks, Peruvian , Persian and recently British civilizations ,probably thought in the same pathological narcissistic manner...Where are they now ?
humility and harmony with others , high values and remaining grounded in the reality of human lives .ability to feel and empathize with others' suffering ...are signs of a truly great civilization. So, look at the BIG picture and not just big houses !
A policeman who shoots and kills a unarmed teenager (without even thinking that that boy is someone's son, someones brother, someones dear friend) is a sign of a cruel, degraded nation even though it might have more material things.

Rather well put.

For some who believe a good house, car etc is the acme of life, they believe Happiness is a Warm Gun.

There, as you put so succinctly, more to happiness and contentment than a good house, car etc.

 

[kenduffy]

Because Bunker Roy has not visited there.

Where he has visited and worked, it has worked magnificently, to include some places in India, Afghanistan, Africa et al.

wow , Bunker Roy is a god