USA Thinktank: We don't need the Indians as much as they think we do

Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,279
Country flag
This is not a new view this is the same view for the last 50 years through the cold war.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
This is not a new view this is the same view for the last 50 years through the cold war.
The same view? What about different contexts? Collapse of Soviet and rise of China and India?

When Chairman Mao met Nixon he said he preferred to deal with "rightist" who were honest and outspoken.

Lohman said he thought it was "crazy" to support India's permanent seat on the UN Security Council.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
As an egghead in a "think tank" Mr. Lohman has an acute observation:
He asked, "How do we know India won't take its strength in 20 years and be a problem for us? We are betting somewhere on a strategic relationship, we are betting somewhere on a strategic convergence, and unless we start seeing those convergences, it may be a bad bet."
The convergence will not fade in the next 20 years.

Mr Lohman is deluding and again letting his overconfidence and brouhaha in the US' capability to remain Superpower Mo 1 on its own take hold of him!

China would not fade into oblivion. In fact, might get more mightier than now and be a greater reason for closer ties!
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,279
Country flag
The same view? What about different contexts? Collapse of Soviet and rise of China and India?

When Chairman Mao met Nixon he said he preferred to deal with "rightist" who were honest and outspoken.
Don't flatter yourself kissinger only wanted to prevent a Russian Chinese block from forming.
USA has not forgotten what China did in korea or vietnam. India has a significant muslim
Population and would not support USA in many wars against Islamic nations, USA would
Not get the master slave relations they have with others.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
The same view? What about different contexts? Collapse of Soviet and rise of China and India?

When Chairman Mao met Nixon he said he preferred to deal with "rightist" who were honest and outspoken.
You underestimate the Chinese and actually you are using the Chinese way to 'disarm' antagonists.

Nothing could explain the Chinese mindset and the Chinese way of doing things than this

It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice.
Deng Xiaoping



so, Mao was just being Chinese when he told Nixon that!
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Lohman has answered on India as a leverage for China

"The Indians should know that we have many ways of dealing with the Chinese -- our alliances, our forward-deployed military, are chief among them. But we also have a lot of diplomatic channels with the Chinese," he said.

"We can talk to the Chinese directly about our issues. We don't really need the Indians as much as they may think that we need them and as much as we sometimes lead them to believe that we need them," he said.
Recall Mr Mattster has given insights into why US will remain No.1 superpower in the decades to come and those who play requiem for her supremacy would be proven wrong.
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
'We don't need the Indians as much as they think we do'

"Moving beyond what's good for India, moving beyond talk and a strategic relationship and them doing something for us, they know they don't have to because out interest is in developing India regardless of what they are able to do for us," he said.
Pfft! What! Ok. What have you done in order to develop India? Your immigration policies and anti-outsourcing laws are detrimental to India. you are doing the exact opposite of what you said.

This is a country that has voted against the US -- in 2010 -- and voted against the US 44 times out of 71.
Also being the only country among the BRIC that your country actually planned to use military force to achieve objectives. How myopic.

"The Indians should know that we have many ways of dealing with the Chinese -- our alliances, our forward-deployed military, are chief among them. But we also have a lot of diplomatic channels with the Chinese," he said.
Agreed. But let's see your country change Afghanistan for the better before we talk about handling China militarily.

How do we know India won't take its strength in 20 years and be a problem for us?
Quite like how you failed to see the China problem in 2012 when you made the same friendly overtures in 1976.

We were the only country in the world that could get them the waiver in the Nuclear Suppliers Group. Not only were we the only one that could do it, we were the only one willing to do it."
You were the one who invited us into this group. It is a case of cutting the cake and eating all of it. Sure, we are grateful, but don't expect us to sell our sovereignty over it.

That was a huge thing that we did for India -- it was much more in their interest than it was in our interest."
This indirectly helps reduce a major oil competitor in the future anyway. So, it is a win win for all. It would not be funny for your countrymen if India ends up owning 30-40% of the world's resources by 2020. Some economists are of the belief both India and China already own 50% of the world's resources.

And, the Indians can't even deliver on the one transaction that is most specifically associated with that deal
Pfft! We voted against Iran in the UN and even agreed to place the Iran-India oil pipeline on hold because of the deal. If not for the nuclear deal we would have had our pipeline by now.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,279
Country flag
With an economy in tatters. The only leverage USA has left is military might.
USA. 's defense budget is probably more than the whole world combined. With
an increasing competition for resources the Chinese threat is emerging as a
Top priority for the US and western civilization as a whole.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Using the Chinese way to 'disarm' antagonists??

That's a compliment? ? Or to disarm anyone? And u have witnessed India is not disarmed instead India tested Agni V.

My points are Mr Lohman's assessments on US-India are correct, for maximizing the US's interests not India's. The US expects India to align with the US's interests, over Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan... and China, instead of exhausting itself by "taking on" China while those so-called allies are standing on the sidelines waiting for a freeloading.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,279
Country flag
Chinese are not usa's partner just a low cost trade partner that has reached a point where they
Are the biggest economic threat to USA this takes precedence over anything; Chinese may view
Themselves as a partner but there is only one number one historically and always will be. Many
Hawks in USA take the view war with China is inevitable and preparing for this.
 
Last edited:

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Chinese are not usa's partner just a low cost trade partner that has reached a point where they
Are the biggest economic threat to USA this takes precedence over anything Chinese may view
Themselves as a partner but there is only one number one historically and always will be. Many
Hawks in USA take the view war with China is inevitable and preparing for this.
:rofl: As an American (read Lohman) he'd prefer others (allies / partners / friends /proxies) to do the job for America, not America getting its own hands dirty.

and the subject is USA Thinktank: We don't need the Indians as much as they think we do how was it derailed to a US-vs.-China one?:namaste: again?
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
and China, instead of exhausting itself by "taking on" China while those so-called allies are standing on the sidelines waiting for a freeloading.
China has taken no territory of the US nor are they saying Alaska is NE China/ Overseas territory of China.

So, they wont get it was to why India is taking on China.

And India is not really 'exhausting' itself, or is it?
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
:rofl: As an American (read Lohman) he'd prefer others (allies / partners / friends /proxies) to do the job for America, not America getting its own hands dirty.

and the subject is USA Thinktank: We don't need the Indians as much as they think we do how was it derailed to a US-vs.-China one?:namaste: again?
India US relations cannot be judged in isolation because US is the Middle Kingdom of the world, whether we like it or not.

Therefore, her action has global ramifications.

If there was no China, what would US interest be in India?

Or for that matter, in Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia or any other country?

Note: Brunei and Malaysia are minor players in the South China Sea and so there is no coalescing with them......as yet!

Let China affect their interest in some aggressive mode, the US will step in!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,279
Country flag
:rofl: As an American (read Lohman) he'd prefer others (allies / partners / friends /proxies) to do the job for America, not America getting its own hands dirty.

and the subject is USA Thinktank: We don't need the Indians as much as they think we do how was it derailed to a US-vs.-China one?:namaste: again?

The #1 threat to USA is China and USA is forming allies and proxies for this. If Chinese are ignorant
To this better for USA to achieve it's goals against china.
 

Oracle

New Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
8,120
Likes
1,566
With articles such as this, things would not progress. Think tanks are masked official mouthpieces, usually. LF is right, Indians in US should be more pragmatic, and not expect too mush from the Democrats. All ongoing deals were signed during the Bush era. Someone show me a historic agreemeent between US and India, since 2009, when Obama came to power. The negativity of this article is astounding.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834


The other part of Lohman's career has been spent as a Senate staff member. In 2002, he served as senior professional Republican staff advising Sen. Jesse Helms (R-NC), the ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on issues affecting East Asia. From 1991 to 1996, he served as a policy aide to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), during which time he advised McCain on foreign policy, trade and defense issues.

Walter Lohman
 

trackwhack

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
3,757
Likes
2,589
Wait a second where are the America-philes? Adux, asianobserve ... you guys in hibernation?

Defining partnership of the century , my ass.
 

TTCUSM

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
87
Likes
44
This seems to be the view by the democrats and the Obama administration. And all
Foolish Indians all 3 million will still vote democrat.stupid think tank viewing India as an
Adversary. If any talk of the India-russia_-china alliance start in the future it may
Change things and USA may not have their whipping boy pak with them.
I've seen this attitude among quite a few Indian-Americans, that the Republican party is more pro-India than the Democrats.
If you actually read the post, you would know that this report was written by the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Lest we forget, it was the Democratic president FDR who pushed Churchill to liberate the colonies during World War II.
It was the Democratic president JFK who thought that the USA would have to defend India in case another war with China broke out.
It was the Democratic president LBJ who passed the 1965 Immigration Reform Act, which allowed immigrants from non-Western countries to come to the US. He also passed the Civil Rights Act which made it illegal to discriminate against minorities.
It was the Democratic president Bill Clinton who allowed US companies to start outsourcing to India.

In contrast, Republican presidents have been thoroughly pro-Pakistan and pro-China.
It was the Republican president Richard Nixon who threatened to intervene in Pakistan's favor during the 1971 war. He also encouraged China to open its economy to Western investment, resulting in its rapid rise as a global power.
 

TTCUSM

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
87
Likes
44
advising Sen. Jesse Helms (R-NC), the ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on issues affecting East Asia.
Jesse Helms...didn't he support the Khalistan movement?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top