US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war

Discussion in 'Americas' started by SpArK, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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  3. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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  4. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Not to mention they were egging on the chinese to attack India.
     
  5. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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  6. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war - The Times of India
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    NEW DELHI: Despite its intense animosity towards India during the 1971 war, the US promised New Delhi "all out" support in case China carried out any unprovoked attack on India, recently declassified documents reveal 40 years after the historic war that created Bangladesh. The revelations add fresh twist to the narrative of the Indo-Pak war of 1971. Based on a set of freshly declassified documents of the ministry of external affairs, TOI had in early November
    reported that the US hostility towards India
    during the 1971 war was far beyond what was
    publicly known. And that the US had probably
    also prepared a few Marine battalions for
    operations against the Indian military.
    Communications of the Indian embassy in
    Washington and of the government in New
    Delhi show that US offered "all out" help if China
    were to enter the Indo-Pak standoff to favour its
    all-weather friend.
    After a meeting with Henry Kissinger, then
    adviser to President Richard Nixon, on August
    25, 1971, Indian ambassador to the US L K Jha
    reported to New Delhi, "He said that in a 1962
    type of situation, US will not hesitate to give all
    out help to India against China, and there is no
    change of position on this." Kissinger was
    referring to the military conflict between India
    and China in 1962 in which India was humiliated.
    A few weeks before this meeting, during a visit
    to New Delhi, Kissinger told then defence
    minister Jagjivan Ram, "I might tell you that we
    would take a very grave view of any Chinese
    move against India."
    Ambassador Jha had spent three hours with
    Kissinger in San Clemente White House, the
    vacation home of Nixon, on August 25, as
    tension mounted in South Asia. They discussed
    details of issues that could crop up in an
    upcoming meeting between then PM Indira
    Gandhi and Nixon.
    But "in this one (letter to foreign secretary T N
    Kaul), I am dealing with one specific point
    relating to the US attitude in the event of China
    joining on the side of Pakistan in a conflict with
    us", the ambassador wrote. Discussions with
    Kissinger on possible Chinese aggression were
    prompted by queries from New Delhi, the letter
    shows. New Delhi was worried that China could
    open a second front against India, even as it
    fought Pakistan. Such a collaboration between
    China and Pakistan still remains a worry for the
    Indian security establishment.
    "Then I asked that in order to be quite clear and
    free from any ambiguity or doubt, I would
    welcome a fuller formulation from him of the US
    position in case we are involved in any kind of a
    conflict with China." In response, Kissinger
    offered "all out" help in case of a 1962 type
    situation. Then he went on to discuss other
    possible scenarios.
    "If it was a 1965 type of Pakistani attack, then
    even without Chinese involvement, US would
    take the toughest measures against Pakistan, and
    if China came to its help, it would not hesitate to
    help us with arms, though not with men," Jha
    wrote. The situation Kissinger referred was an
    unprovoked Pakistani aggression.
    "However, the chances were that if the present
    situation escalates into a conflict, it would be
    very hard to tell who is to blame. Thus, if India
    sent two divisions of irregulars into East Bengal
    and Pakistanis sent four such divisions into
    Kashmir, it would not be a situation in which the
    US could possibly help even if China threw its
    weight on the side of Pakistan," Kissinger told
    Jha, according to the ambassador's letter.
    This letter from the Indian ambassador was seen
    by the foreign minister, the secretary to the
    prime minister and most other senior officials.
     
  7. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Now this is news to me. AFAIK, quite the opposite happened. I think now that US is trying hard to impress the Indians sensing the strong distrust that lingers in the minds of Indians due to the covert hostile acts the US committed against India for the sake of Truman Doctrine and Cold War. This report is definitely a mark of lobbying and soft priming taken up by the US to sweeten the remaining hiccups that mar the further progress of Indo-US relationship.

    Personally, I'd have a lot more respect for honest admission and excuses of pragmatic geopolitics than such pathetic attempts.
     
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Only a fool would believe Kissinger or this so called declassified paper.

    The ground reality proved that Kissinger lies through his teeth!
     
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  10. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    I can only appreciate the long lasting propaganda accomplishment of the USSR on Indians. Despite the increasingly unavoidable evidence of US repeated strategic overtures to India a lot of Indians still insist that the US was singularly committed to destroying it. The declassified info BTW did not emanate from the US but from India's External Affairs Ministry according to the above Times of India article.

    I said this before and I'll say it again, the US is more a natural ally for democratic India than any other power. (The alliance with the totalitarian USSR was odd.)
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    When the news of the successful Sputnik launch spread to the world, part of the US press called it 'Communist Propaganda.'

    The US was thoroughly committed to Truman Doctrine and Cold War and don't even argue about it. Indo-Pak rivalry was also a manifestation of the Cold War. In 1971, we had already become a Soviet ally. We even have a city in India called the graveyward of Patton tanks. It's called Patton-Nagar. Read up on it. Now don't get me started on Sabre jets. If Indians insist on what you wrote, they are right!

    Couldn't have and I don't believe it; unless of course someone was smoking pot in the External Affairs Ministry.

    A natural ally of the US cannot be a democracy. The US always preferred single window interaction and dictatorships were always preferred over democracies, especially Parliamentary ones.
     
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  12. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Uhh....if anything, this proves even more that the US was committed to war against India. Earlier declassified US documents show that the US (Kissinger) personally travelled to Beijing to convince the Chinese to go to war against India in 1971. The Chinese did not heed the US advice. On the other hand, they were falsely assuring India of help against the Chinese in event of a war. In reality, they actually sent a nuclear armed aircraft carrier to the Bay of Bengal to deter the Indian attack on East Pukistan.

    The only REAL friend India had in 1971 was the USSR, which not only used their veto in the UNSC more than 20 times to block any resolutions against India, but also sent 2 nuclear armed submarines to follow the USS Enterprise into the Bay of Bengal to deter the US from launching war against India.

    These new revelations only show what kind of two-faced liars both Nixon and Kissinger were, and to what lengths they were willing to go to stoke WWIII in the subcontinent.
     
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  13. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    What can I say? Not even concrete evidence produced by a respectable Indian newspaper will sway long held assumptions (shaped no doubt by decades of propaganda). BTW, the majority of the US allies are still democratic. I need not elaborate. The dictators are either purely a strategic mistake or unavoidable embrace of realpolitiks (they will go to their equally undemocratic powers if not held tight). But just review the alliances of the USSR during the Cold war, India stick out like a gleaming crystal of beauty amid a sea of socialist totalitarian darkness...
     
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  14. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Even if this was true, I think Kissinger was lulling India. It's known that this very same person had asked china to posture against India. The soviets didn't amass 3 divisions on the Chinese border for nothing.
     
  15. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    what you are saying may be true currently, right now..

    but things were different in year 71's...

    Kissinger once called former Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi a "bitch" in conversation.. he personally hated india and our then prime minister Indira gandhi. kissinger even sent nuclear armed USS enterprise to strike india with devastating force so that america's ally pakistan can be saved during 1971 war. but due to russians comming to our rescue, USS enterprise made a 'U' turn with out making any contact.

    due to the nuclear black-mailing from chinese and usa, we exploded our first nuclear bomb in 1974 and 1998.. we got heavy sanctions from usa and its puppet states...

    we have been ranting, complaining and yelling to americans that do not give free f-16's and weapons to pakistan as they are using "terrorism" as state policy against india... you know all those tomahawk missiles, f-16's, p3c orions, Hercules, hell fires, side winders, Apaches, howitzers etc were giving free-of-cost to pakistan in the name of war on terror. americans wanted to maintain power balance In asia... wtf..

    even in year 2010, we heavy complained to usa when they agreed to sell 18 f-16 block 52 plus upgrade kit for remaining f-16's.. but usa didn't even listened..

    osama bin laden story changes everything.. now usa wants to be friend to India... u know???

    usa still needs to do heavy work to earn out trust.

    and, do not believe everything that is published in india.. TOI is a mouthpiece of congress and supports American lobby.. so they will publish bullshit articles like these one...
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
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  16. warriorextreme

    warriorextreme Senior Member Senior Member

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    USA has always cared more about selling its weapons rather than anything...whole world knows about this...
     
  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Read the red portion below:

    And the US has and had difficulty getting Germany, France, Italy et al. to agree with the US foreign policy exactly because they were democratic. See the reactions of the countries I mentioned during (1) Iraq invasion, (2) Russo-Georgian War, (3) UNSC vote against Libya etc.. The US has had a much smoother ride with dictatorships. The keyword here is 'natural ally,' not 'ally!' ;)
     
  18. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    What do you think would have ahappened if India earlier accepted US overtures, it offered China's UN seat and 1962 assistance... Would the carrier task force diplomacy occured in 1971 if India and the US already had a relatively good strategic arrangement? The most the US could have done granting it still maintained relationship with Pakistan ws to declare neutrality. Note that the US reproachment policy towards China did not take place until 1971, and seriously in 1972. This was probably only after the US realised that its India engagement policies will go nowehere...
     
  19. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    right now americans are eyeing for 120 billion dollars that India is going to spend on defense in next 8 years and market pie for american companies like walmart etc.. plus, they want to use India against china..
     
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    AsianObserve, let it go buddy! The US was firmly against India in 1971-72 Indo-Pak Bangladesh Liberation War. Period.

    Here are the two belligerent groups:

    Mukti Bahini + India + USSR (good guys) :fencing: Pakistan + USA + PRC (bad guys)
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
  21. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    The European ditherings are of recent phenomena, except maybe France. This is because they no longer need so desperately US security umbrella as the USSR is no more. But rest assured that their alliance is still solid and when one is pushed against he wall the rest will still come around.

    I
     

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