US plan to station military aircraft in India ?

[drkrn]

It's an illusion. Indian certainly is on the rise lately (it still has to prove the viability of this trend though) but for a long time its masses has been the picture of poverty all over the World while its politicians proclaim their sky high regard for their foreign policy "independence."

we are poor ,so what??don,t poor people in america have any self respect.
every person speaks good about his mother and country,nothing special.we don't need any support from other nations for our foreign policy making.

 

[kseeker]

On a contrarian note, what is the problem with letting the yanks have a base in South India?

1. Get some Dollars into the economy which we so badly need.

Badly need for what ? New Scam ?

2. The base will be upgraded with American dolloars

Opportunity for Another scam !

3. Our chaps will get some practice with the american pilots-- good for us.

Practice can be done during joint defence exercises, we don't have to open doors for them just for that purpose.

Not that they will start dictating our foreign policy with one base.

Examples are in front of us, Japan, S Korea etc... Are we supposed to deny the facts ?

 

[SamwiseTheBrave]

Badly need for what ? New Scam ?



Opportunity for Another scam !



Practice can be done during joint defence exercises, we don't have to open doors for them just for that purpose.



Examples are in front of us, Japan, S Korea etc... Are we supposed to deny the facts ?

good counters..... if the scams had not occured in the 1st place, we`d have a fairly good amount of dollars already to upgrade and induct newer platforms. inviting USAF bases in India is a surefire way to sign over our foreign and defence policy to them without saying so in as many words. ironic that the base is being considered in the homestate of VK Krishna Menon and the state which had the 1st democratically elected communist govt. in the world !

 

[Tshering22]

Political autonomy, such a lofty phrase. The opium of the Indian elites. But what did it give to the Indian people?

Germany after the war was able to free up a large part of her resources in rebuilding her shattered economy rather than allocating a lot of it for a solo defense against then threatening East Germany and its master the USSR, because of the security provided by its alliance with America. The same with Japan and South Korea. The people in these countries benefited immensely from the practical strategic foreign policy decisions of their Governments. And even though these countries have close working relation with the US on foreign policy matters you cannot say that they are entirely puppets. Germany certainly does not give the US a blank check of support even during the height of the Cold War.

Not Indian elites.

Irrespective of which party, military and strategic autonomy is taken very seriously in India and for the right reasons.

Please don't equate economic weakening due to defence. We spend not even 2% of the allocated GDP on defence and that is after so much aggression. Infact for the last two years, the budget is being returned back to the treasuries as deals are getting delayed and the money is not being spent properly. Our economic and poverty issues are from inhuman levels of corruption done by the ruling government. This government ruled our country for 55 years, which was a significant time to swindle the riches out.

When the corrupt are in power, becoming a lackey state is the most dangerous thing.

Even worse than what these countries we are discussing, are.

The only reason why these countries relented their defence to the US is because they exist in some of the most peaceful regions of the world.

East Asia remained peaceful without a single war where neither Japan nor Korea had to do anything (US came to Seoul's aid with entire band of allies in Korean war).

Europe has been moving towards economic integration and has forgotten what it is like to cut each others' throats.

While we Indians are sandwiched between two of the most unstable nuclear powers on this planet.

One is a large, authoritarian and expansionist state which has everything in quantity more than us.

Another one is a fundamentalist, jihadi, terror sponsoring state that has no single centre for power other than its Army which lives off its rabid hatred for us and uses its nuclear shield to protect terrorists.

Both the countries have our legitimate territories either stolen or cheated in conflicts or agreements.

If we become US lackeys, it will be endgame for us.

Look at Japan, Philippines and Korea now a days. They are now stuck between a rock and a hard place because US is in doldrums of Afghan war, Pakistan is giving it a big headache, economy is downhill, Iran's concern is bogging it down and it is itching to enter into Syria.

Now tell me this; in such a scenario, all the three Asian nations I said above, are in serious mess. If the Chinese communists attack, they will be sitting ducks in the longer run.

True, they have advanced weaponry but are very limited in quantity.

Philippines will fall in a week if US doesn't intervene. Korea may not be captured but severely destroyed by CCP's barking dogs called DPRK and Japanese while reasonably strong, cannot stretch themselves out of their limits. Their Bushido attitude towards war is no more.

 

[mattster]

Indians are paranoid of entering any kind of strategic alliance with the US because they are too proud and dont want to become lackeys !!

Which is all fine and dandy if it were not for the fact that almost every week Indian soldiers are being humiliated and forced to endure endless forays by Chinese troops into their territory. Indian diplomats run like frightened cats begging their Chinese counterparts to move back.
They have been begging the Chinese to stay on their side of the border for 30 years.

If you cant deal with China on your own : then you should find an alliance with others who view China as a threat.
But Pragmatism is not a word in the Indian vocabulary.
India's seventy year old politicians let China build a 20 year lead in strategic weapons but they dont have the balls to align themselves with the US because they are incapable making hard decisions and too scared of the Chinese reaction.

At least you have to credit the Pakis - they quickly aligned with China when they realised that they couldnt handle India alone.
"Talk about being in a pickle" - I pity the Indian soldiers who man the border with China have to deal with the weekly aggression.

 

[drkrn]

Indians are paranoid of entering any kind of strategic alliance with the US because they are too proud and dont want to become lackeys !!

Which is all fine and dandy if it were not for the fact that almost every week Indian soldiers are being humiliated and forced to endure endless forays by Chinese troops into their territory. Indian diplomats run like frightened cats begging their Chinese counterparts to move back.
They have been begging the Chinese to stay on their side of the border for 30 years.

If you cant deal with China on your own : then you should find an alliance with others who view China as a threat.
But Pragmatism is not a word in the Indian vocabulary.
India's seventy year old politicians let China build a 20 year lead in strategic weapons but they dont have the balls to align themselves with the US because they are incapable making hard decisions and too scared of the Chinese reaction.

At least you have to credit the Pakis - they quickly aligned with China when they realised that they couldnt handle India alone.
"Talk about being in a pickle" - I pity the Indian soldiers who man the border with China have to deal with the weekly aggression.

oh.some one are already proud being america lackey's..
looking at the "credible" history of america extending its hand to india and supplying arms to pakistan ,surely every one will be doubtful about their integrity to friendship.won't they??

don't bluff.usa is supplying our enemy advanced weapon platforms in the name of WOT though it has nothing to do with counter terrorist ops.

what the hell can america do to india,when its struggling daily to keep its supremacy in pacific when north korea(chinese lackey) sunk south korean ship,

how do you protect taiwan from daily threats of china.china has officially threatened to use weapons on your carrier battle group if they enter near their vicinity..don't deny

you speak tough,nothing else.you need china more than any other nation.your presence in india is neither a counter to china nor pakistan.

 

[asianobserve]

self respect

So the Germans, Brits, Italians, SPanish, Japanese, Koreans do not have self-respect?

 

[tramp]

Political autonomy, such a lofty phrase. The opium of the Indian elites. But what did it give to the Indian people?

Germany after the war was able to free up a large part of her resources in rebuilding her shattered economy rather than allocating a lot of it for a solo defense against then threatening East Germany and its master the USSR, because of the security provided by its alliance with America. The same with Japan and South Korea. The people in these countries benefited immensely from the practical strategic foreign policy decisions of their Governments. And even though these countries have close working relation with the US on foreign policy matters you cannot say that they are entirely puppets. Germany certainly does not give the US a blank check of support even during the height of the Cold War.

I do not see any reason why the US should have fighter planes stationed on Indian soil when they have massive bases in Diego Garcia as well as Bahrain and any number of aircraft carrier in the region. They can also land and take off from any of the Gulf airports as if they own them. Then why push for Trivandrum a 1,000 odd km away if its just "stationing" fighters.

Unless it is intended to be symbolic and they want to send a message across to some powers by having planes based on Indian soil.

More than that it does not add to their power projection unless they see it as a proverbial toehold for a future full scale airbase, which would not be advisable from the Indian point of view.

 

[drkrn]

So the Germans, Brits, Italians, SPanish, Japanese, Koreans do not have self-respect?

my quote is specific for one post and for india.i wont compare position of india with any other aforementioned nations

those countries needed american military presence against their enemies.be it against Russia or China.
but for india ,as america is an ally to china and pakistan doesn't confer any advantage but definite disadvantages.

so no military use.world wide India is the only country in the world with relation between both poles equally.russia and america.israel and arabs.so diplomatically too we are in a good position.but one need to accept the international supremacy of american diplomacy,which can not be tilted in our favour leasing just one base.

 

[drkrn]

I do not see any reason why the US should have fighter planes stationed on Indian soil when they have massive bases in Diego Garcia as well as Bahrain and any number of aircraft carrier in the region. They can also land and take off from any of the Gulf airports as if they own them. Then why push for Trivandrum a 1,000 odd km away if its just "stationing" fighters.

Unless it is intended to be symbolic and they want to send a message across to some powers by having planes based on Indian soil.

More than that it does not add to their power projection unless they see it as a proverbial toehold for a future full scale airbase, which would not be advisable from the Indian point of view.

because of current change in american military policies to shift 20% navy to indian ocean region created a need for more bases

 

[kseeker]

So the Germans, Brits, Italians, SPanish, Japanese, Koreans do not have self-respect?

Please understand that, we didn't say that, those countries do not have self respect. Whether they have or lost it, it's their own business, we are least bothered about their self respect.

It's just that, we have our own self respect and do not want to ruin that.

self respect

@dkrm, I presume, you would concur on my aforementioned interpretation. If you have different opinion, please do share with us.

 

[kseeker]

good counters..... if the scams had not occured in the 1st place, we`d have a fairly good amount of dollars already to upgrade and induct newer platforms. inviting USAF bases in India is a surefire way to sign over our foreign and defence policy to them without saying so in as many words. ironic that the base is being considered in the homestate of VK Krishna Menon and the state which had the 1st democratically elected communist govt. in the world !

Well said, couldn't agree more.

 

[kseeker]

Indians are paranoid of entering any kind of strategic alliance with the US because they are too proud and dont want to become lackeys !!

You are correct except the paranoid part. It's already evident who the US lackeys are, we have seen them. We don't want to become one.

Which is all fine and dandy if it were not for the fact that almost every week Indian soldiers are being humiliated and forced to endure endless forays by Chinese troops into their territory. Indian diplomats run like frightened cats begging their Chinese counterparts to move back.
They have been begging the Chinese to stay on their side of the border for 30 years.

That's because of our incompetent govt. not that our defence forces are strong enough to retaliate chinese. Hands of our defence forces are tied now and will remain same if the current ruling party comes in power one more time.

If you cant deal with China on your own : then you should find an alliance with others who view China as a threat.
But Pragmatism is not a word in the Indian vocabulary.
India's seventy year old politicians let China build a 20 year lead in strategic weapons but they dont have the balls to align themselves with the US because they are incapable making hard decisions and too scared of the Chinese reaction.

Alliances can be formed without landing US forces on Indian soil. Period.

At least you have to credit the Pakis - they quickly aligned with China when they realised that they couldnt handle India alone.

An enemy of my enemy is a friend, nothing new ! PAK is a failed sate, NO credit's whatsoever.

"Talk about being in a pickle" - I pity the Indian soldiers who man the border with China have to deal with the weekly aggression.

Feeling is mutual. Our shameless, incompetent govt to blame for that.

 

[Tshering22]

Indians are paranoid of entering any kind of strategic alliance with the US because they are too proud and dont want to become lackeys !!

My friend, there is a lot of difference between strategic partnership and becoming a lackey.

We welcome good military to military ties with you.

Which is all fine and dandy if it were not for the fact that almost every week Indian soldiers are being humiliated and forced to endure endless forays by Chinese troops into their territory. Indian diplomats run like frightened cats begging their Chinese counterparts to move back.

They have been begging the Chinese to stay on their side of the border for 30 years.

Not 30 years. 25 years.

For 5 years when a strong government was in power, there was NO incursions between 1999-2004.

Incursions started in the year 2008 when Chinese knew that we are having a weak, corrupt and sold-out regime supported by a bunch of self-ashamed, lost and slave minded 'intellectuals' who were nothing more than vermin purchased from public money bribes.

For two terms, 'liberal' Indians chose this regime and are suffering to this day.

Which is why things are changing for the good, by going bad initially.

If you cant deal with China on your own : then you should find an alliance with others who view China as a threat.
But Pragmatism is not a word in the Indian vocabulary.

India's seventy year old politicians let China build a 20 year lead in strategic weapons but they dont have the balls to align themselves with the US because they are incapable making hard decisions and too scared of the Chinese reaction.

Tell me something; What did you do when Philippines has to deal with boat rammings from PLAN every second day?

What did you do when your greatest partners aka the Japanese' territory of Senkaku islands is being daily visited by boatloads of Chinese troops and even civilians planting Chinese flags?

What did you do about the strategic partner South Korea when its island was being shelled, injuring citizens and when DPRK who is nothing more than China's pet dog, sank and killed 46 South Korean sailors?

Did you fire warning shots at the Chinese?

Did you down their jets patrolling the South China Sea?

Did you retaliate on behalf of Japanese, Koreans and Filipinos?
No.

All you have is military bases on their territories and nothing more.

Your usual response is a joint wargame which does nothing and I mean nothing to deter either Chinese or their pet pooches.

They have managed to easily circumvented your posturing by continuing to poke these smaller countries while knowing that you won't dare to do anything to them.



Instead, of this, why don't you remove your secret nuclear threat to Japan which is still like a gun behind their backs and let them militarize?

Everytime they ask you to vacate the Okinawa base, you ratchet up the China threat and then press them into letting you stay.

And even then PLAN and PLAAF has a free run.

Because you know what?

They know you won't dare to do anything as long as a single American is not harmed.

Chinese don't care a rat's rear about the US soldiers now as they know you are only a ceremonial threat to them.

They won't touch your soldiers but will continue occupying and poking and harassing Japan, Korea, Philippines and even Vietnam.

Basically, you lot are a limitation to the Japanese from militarization.

At least you have to credit the Pakis - they quickly aligned with China when they realised that they couldnt handle India alone.
"Talk about being in a pickle" - I pity the Indian soldiers who man the border with China have to deal with the weekly aggression.

And that is the reason why they are in dumps today.

They are emotionally unstable and therefore easily take a stand without understanding the difference between excellent relations internationally and strategic partnership.

You used Pakistan to get rid of USSR.

And Russia is back up again, stronger than ever even if not a direct threat to you.

And look where Pakistan is:

1- Every major terrorist organization from Balkans to Java and Borneo is hiding there.

2- Your puppet Zia's indoctrination, the country cannot even tolerate each other.

3- Their economy is on the bring of collapse with multiple centres of power.

4- Rather than making them see sense of not waging a war with us and attacking us, you promoted them so badly, that they are now on the verge of eventual disintegration.

So looking at Pakistan, we did a really good job.

One more thing:

Our country's current weak stature is due to the type of regime you patronize: 'Free, secoolar and liberal' system that has made terrorists dominate our country today.

Once the elections come and the current opposition changes, you will see our change in stand against China.

Chinese know it all too well as they did between 1999-2004.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Maybe this is an indirect way of giving bombers to India? Since chinese are overconfident
In the their belief indian missiles do not have the range to hit china?

 

[praneetbajpaie]

On a contrarian note, what is the problem with letting the yanks have a base in South India?

1. Get some Dollars into the economy which we so badly need.

2. The base will be upgraded with American dolloars

3. Our chaps will get some practice with the american pilots-- good for us.

Not that they will start dictating our foreign policy with one base.

Self respect. You want us to be another Pakistan?

 

[Tshering22]

On a contrarian note, what is the problem with letting the yanks have a base in South India?

1. Get some Dollars into the economy which we so badly need.

The amount for renting a base is pittance for a country's economy the size of ours.

2. The base will be upgraded with American dolloars

Which means all our bases are also in purview of their surveillance. Of course it is their money but we cannot compromise on our military establishments.

What's more, once they come, they won't leave.

We didn't even give them base during cold war, what makes you think we should give them now?

3. Our chaps will get some practice with the american pilots-- good for us.

We already have a regular strategic set of wargames with them where we both exchange our techniques.

Not that they will start dictating our foreign policy with one base.

That is how it all begins.

We can take care of ourselves, mate.

Only problem is we need a legitimate government to run this country that can take a stand.

Not someone elected on the daaru-chikan population which is least concerned about the country and more concerned with the next meal, or someone that got to rule the country by polishing colonial shoes in the name of 'ahimsa'.

We need a government that can look into the eye of the dragon like a true tiger and tell them to back off.

Despite our equipment shortages, we are still stocked enough for a limited swift combat in the Himalayas if it comes to that.

All you need to do is love your country with the same devotion that a soldier in the armed forces does.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

India is not and never will be a ghulam of america and nor does India need help from them, we are capable of defending ourselves from our enemies......

 

[roma]

On a contrarian note, what is the problem with letting the yanks have a base in South India? 1. Get some Dollars into the economy which we so badly need.2. The base will be upgraded with American dolloars 3. Our chaps will get some practice with the american pilots-- good for us.
Not that they will start dictating our foreign policy with one base.

some serious modification to your ideas
,
why have they chosen a nice cosy spot in south india ?
- why cant they show some in arunachal or aksai ?
help us defend there - wont they do that ? no ?

if theyre gonna be backroom boys, then never mind about coming here
- send the equipment , sent the trainers, well do the job for them

and the equipment belongs to them
but we'll operate it

and dont try any witholding source-code or other tricks
otherwise, we'll pack their stuff and sent it back

at their cost !