US pastor supervises Quran burning, Pakistan outraged

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Oracle, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Controversial American pastor Terry Jones, who supervised the burning of the holy Quran by an evangelical preacher in a Florida church, on Tuesday prompted Pakistan to condemn it as a "despicable act" aimed at provoking discord among people across the world.

    "Such a reprehensible act could only be the work of extremists and is evidently designed to provoke dissent and discord among communities and people across the world," said Hina Rabbani Khar, minister of state for Foreign Affairs.

    President Asif Ali Zardari too condemned the desecration of the Quran during his address to a joint sitting of parliament on Tuesday afternoon.

    "I, on behalf of the people and government, and my behalf strongly condemn the deliberate desecration of the Holy Quran by a fanatic in Florida," he said.

    "We condemn this act in the strongest possible words. It is a serious setback to the efforts at promoting harmony among civilised communities throughout the world," he added.

    The Muslim community in the United States has declined to respond to the act by Jones and his small group of followers.

    "Terry Jones had his 15 minutes of fame and we're not going to help him get another few minutes," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

    However, it has sparked outrage in Pakistan, with the Jamaat-ud-Dawah announcing a reward of Rs 10 crore for anyone who kills Jones. The reward was announced by senior JuD leader Amir Hamza, a close aide of the group's chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed.

    Jones considered the burning of Quran as a one-time event and said that he had no plans to do it on a mass scale.

    The US Embassy in Islamabad, in a statement issued on Tuesday, condemned the burning of the Quran and described it as "an isolated act done by a small group of people that is contrary to American traditions."

    The event did not reflect the "general sentiment of respect toward Islam by the people of the US," said Embassy spokesman Alberto Rodriguez.

    "The deliberate destruction of any holy book is an abhorrent act," said US Ambassador Cameron Munter.

    "The US commitment to freedom of religion and freedom of expression goes back to the founding of our nation and is enshrined in the constitution. We absolutely reject religious intolerance in any form," he said.

    Pakistan expects the US administration, the American people and all civilised societies to take "due cognisance and express their revulsion on this sacrilegious act," the Pakistan Foreign Office statement said.

    "As a strong proponent of inter-faith harmony, Pakistan believes that in troubled times, civilised people and societies must resist and oppose any tendency towards extremism of any kind," it said.

    Source
     
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  3. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    I do not have words to respond if educated Americans resort to such gimmicks! It's a shame.
     
  4. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Someone should inform deluded pastor that Jesus is mentioned more times than Muhammad in the Quran and that majority of the stuff written in it is the same/copied from the Bible.

    Got to love ignorant religious people :pound:

    Also what right does pakistan have to point fingers at others ? they should look at there discriminatory laws first.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  5. Sabir

    Sabir DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    I have no objection if all books get burnt and all houses of all Gods are demolished.....But I prefer a natural calamity of a miraculous type rather than one burning book of other's religion.
     
  6. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    There's nothing wrong with burning the Quran. The problem is when you exclusively burn the Quran and exclusively label Islam as a "demonic" religion, when Christianity is probably even more demonic in terms of the suffering it has caused across the globe.

    In my not-so-humble opinion, all religions are idiotic and all religious books should be burned. Atheism is the way forward.
     
  7. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    All religions were created by human beings, all books were written by human beings so none of them must be accepted as undisputed Truth. Having said that Religion gives our society a framework, getting rid of them totally will be disastrous, certain moral values like fidelity, monogamy, loyalty cannot be taught and explained logically. There is a reason why many bright and literate people still find peace in religion and spirituality. Blind faith must be discouraged.

    As far as this incident of "Qu'ran burning" is concerned, this is deplorable and provocative.
     
  8. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    You do not need to follow a religion to learn moral values.

    Also, fidelity and monogamy are artificial values; like most other "moral" values they have no place in nature. They are imposed only to create a more stable society, and this too only rather recently. It wasn't until the British Era that such values became commonplace. Does this mean pre-colonial Indians were immoral?

    Rama's father himself had multiple wives. The Ramayana is a justification for polygamy! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  9. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    These people are no different from their rivals 'Muslim fanatics' :)

    One of these also call yoga is satanic :D, Any other religion is satanic except theirs..
     
  10. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Here is some food for thought
    :
    1. Rapes are rampant in all Primates. Did this ever came into thought why a raped woman usually gets pregnant while for a normal couple it takes several weeks/months/years? This is because rape is a mechanism through which a non-dominant male contributes his genes to the pool, making our species' gene pool more diverse. This is actually a naturally beneficial process.

    2. After taking over a female any dominant male will kill any infant/toddler and will chase away any young male sired by the previous male. He will leave the female child because every female is a potential mate. This is normal in all primates, including Chimps, Langurs and pre-historic Human. This is a behavior which has been hard-coded in all males. In countries like USA this has become a social problem with live-in partners of women killing/mauling kids(search with "mother's boyfriend" on google and see what u get). Anthropologists now believe that this is the real reason behind the social institution of marriage, and the opposition to Divorce. During neolithic period around 30% of all Human children were killed, this kept the Human population at around 26,000 for several centuries.

    It is very hard to implement "nature" directly into "society". Obviously these social norms and morals do have some value. Our ancestors who had formulated these norms have seen more of the raw nature than we ever will have to see. Religion does play a vital role in our social and personal lives.

    And yes Ramayana actually teaches "Monogamy", lord Rama strictly adopted monogamy. Religion usually documents "moral values" prevalent in a particular era, thats why I said that blind faith must be resisted. None of the religious books are words of God, all of them had been written by Human beings.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  11. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Burining of holly kuran is bad and should be condemned but instead destroy islamic fundamentalism and thaekedar and that is pakistan should be main mottto
     
  12. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    You are absolutely correct. Social institutions like marriage are needed to maintain stability in human society. But what does that have to do with religion? Does religion necessarily enforce morality? Do you need to be religious to have morals, whatever those may be?

    If you look back in history, and look at all the wars and conflicts perpetrated by religion, it makes you wonder what sort of "moral" system the religions follow. Even today, religion is #1 cause of social conflict and wars.

    Morality and spirituality are both very personal things, and should be treated as such. One learns morals through the natural processes of socialization, through his parents, peers, teachers, and other elements. One need not be religious to live a good life!
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I second this wholeheartedly.

    While I do not agree with the radical version of Islam, the brutal consequence of which we as Indians are facing through terrorists, I must say, the Quran contains plenty of wisdom. As a matter of fact all religious texts do. The problem happens when religion is mixed with politics or used as a political tool.
     
  14. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    That was an extremely intelligent post and I tried to give you a reputation point for that but was prevented by the system. Keep up the good work. It is always a pleasure to read your thoughtful and technically precise posts.
     
  15. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Where there is religion there will be fanaticism ..
     
  16. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    We rulz the planet.:peace:
     
  17. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Where there is attachment to any ideology there will be fanaticism!

    People should really choose between Attachment and Peace but most the time they choose to be attached to something.
     
  18. AOE

    AOE Regular Member

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    Quoted for truth. lol

    Ultimately, it depends on how you see book burning in general. If you are the type to see book burning as burning history, literature, or civilization in some way; well it's an alright view to take up, but ultimately one I wouldn't endorse unless I've smoked or drank something. In a more serious sense, I'm more inclined to oppose any kind of book burning, since you have to consider that regardless of what book maybe burned in the process, you're essentially making a political statement that you will burn literature, history, or even civilization. The quran would fit into the first two categories for the most part.

    History and literature are two subjects of which that if we burn, we ultimately decide that we would prefer to erase a good or bad section of history for dubious reasons, rather than acknowledge that preserving such texts means others can look at it in future with (hopefully) an objective point of view.
     
  19. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Afghans Avenge Florida Koran Burning, Killing 12

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    MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan — Stirred up by three angry mullahs who urged them to avenge the burning of a Koran at a Florida church, thousands of protesters on Friday overran the compound of the United Nations in this northern Afghan city, killing at least 12 people, Afghan and United Nations officials said.
    The dead included at least seven United Nations workers — four Nepalese guards and three Europeans from Romania, Sweden and Norway — according to United Nations officials in New York. One was a woman. Early reports, later denied by Afghan officials, said that at least two of the dead had been beheaded. Five Afghans were also killed.
    The attack was the deadliest for the United Nations in Afghanistan since 11 people were killed in 2009, when Taliban suicide bombers invaded a guesthouse in Kabul. It also underscored the latent hostility toward the nine-year foreign presence here, even in a city long considered to be among the safest in Afghanistan — so safe that American troops no longer patrol here in any numbers.
    Unable to find Americans on whom to vent their anger, the mob turned instead on the next-best symbol of Western intrusion — the nearby United Nations headquarters. “Some of our colleagues were just hunted down,” said a spokesman for the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, Kieran Dwyer, in confirming the attack.
    In Washington, President Obama issued a statement strongly condemning the violence against United Nations workers. “Their work is essential to building a stronger Afghanistan for the benefit of all its citizens,” he said. “We stress the importance of calm and urge all parties to reject violence.” The statement made no reference to the Florida church or the Koran burning.
    Afghanistan, deeply religious and reflexively volatile, has long been highly reactive to perceived insults against Islam. When a Danish cartoonist lampooned the Prophet Muhammad, four people were killed in riots in Afghanistan within days in 2006. The year before, a one-paragraph item in Newsweek alleging that guards at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had flushed a Koran down the toilet set off three days of riots that left 14 people dead in Afghanistan.
    Friday’s episode began when three mullahs, addressing worshipers at Friday Prayer inside the Blue Mosque here, one of Afghanistan’s holiest places, urged people to take to the streets to agitate for the arrest of Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran on March 20.
    Otherwise, said the most prominent of them, Mullah Mohammed Shah Adeli, Afghanistan should cut off relations with the United States. “Burning the Koran is an insult to Islam, and those who committed it should be punished,” he said.
    The crowd — some of its members carrying signs reading “Down with America” and “Death to Obama” — poured into the streets and swelled. Gov. Atta Muhammad Noor of Balkh Province, of which Mazar-i-Sharif is the capital, later put the number at 20,000. According to Lal Mohammad Ahmadzai, spokesman for Gen. Daoud Daoud, the Afghan National Police commander for the country’s north, the crowd soon overwhelmed the United Nations guards, disarming some and beating and shooting others.
    Gen. Abdul Rauf Taj, the deputy police commander for Balkh Province, put the death toll at eight foreign United Nations staff members, but he said there had not been any beheadings. “Police tried to stop them, but protesters began stoning the building, and finally the situation got out of control,” he said.
    Mr. Ahmadzai, however, put the death toll at 10 foreigners in the United Nations compound, 8 killed by gunshots and 2 beheaded.
    Mr. Dwyer confirmed that some United Nations staff members had been killed, but he declined to provide a number or the nationalities of the victims until next of kin had been notified.
    Mirwais Rabi, director of the public health hospital in Mazar-i-Sharif, said 20 wounded and 5 dead Afghan civilians were brought to the hospital.
    The mob also burned down part of the United Nations compound, toppled guard towers and heaved blocks of cement down from the walls. The victims were killed by weapons the demonstrators had wrestled away from the United Nations guards, Mr. Noor said. He listed the dead as five Nepalese guards and two Europeans, a breakdown that varied from the one issued later by Farhan Haq, the deputy United Nations spokesman in New York.
    Mr. Noor also blamed what he said were Taliban infiltrators among the crowd for urging violence and even distributing weapons; he said 27 suspects were arrested on charges of inciting violence, some from Kandahar and other provinces where Taliban are more common.
    Mr. Jones, the Florida pastor, caused an international uproar by threatening to burn the Koran last year on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks. Among others, the overall commander of forces in Afghanistan, Gen. David H. Petraeus, had warned at that time that such an action could provoke violence in Afghanistan and could endanger American troops. Mr. Jones subsequently promised not to burn a Koran, but he nonetheless presided over a mock trial and then the burning of the Koran at his small church in Gainesville, Fla., on March 20, with only 30 worshipers attending.
    The act drew little response worldwide, but provoked angry condemnation in this region, where it was reported in the local media and where anti-American sentiment already runs high. Last week, President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan condemned the burning in an address before Parliament, and President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan on Thursday called on the United States to bring those responsible for the Koran burning to justice.
    A prominent Afghan cleric, Mullah Qyamudin Kashaf, the acting head of the influential Ulema Council of Afghanistan and a Karzai appointee, also called for American authorities to arrest and try Mr. Jones in the Koran burning.
    The Ulema Council recently met to discuss the Koran burning, Mullah Kashaf said in a telephone interview. “We expressed our deep concerns about this act, and we were expecting the violence that we are witnessing now,” he said. “Unless they try him and give him the highest possible punishment, we will witness violence and protests not only in Afghanistan but in the entire world.”
    Mr. Jones was unrepentant. “We must hold these countries and people accountable for what they have done as well as for any excuses they may use to promote their terrorist activities,” he said in a statement. “Islam is not a religion of peace. It is time that we call these people to accountability.”
    Last year, even though Mr. Jones called off his burning of the Koran, a subsequent wave of protests at NATO facilities in Afghanistan led to at least five deaths. In several of those episodes, Taliban agitators played a role; they were said to have spread rumors that the Koran burning had taken place. However, the Taliban have had little or no presence in Mazar-i-Sharif.
    In other developments in Afghanistan, six American soldiers were killed in a single operation in the country’s east on Wednesday and Thursday, a spokesman for the international coalition said Friday.
    “I can confirm that six coalition soldiers have been identified as U.S. soldiers, and were all killed as part of the same operation, but in three separate incidents,” said Maj. Tim James.
    The operation, a helicopter assault into a remote part of Kunar Province close to the Pakistani border, was continuing. The area is frequently used to infiltrate fighters from Pakistan. The purpose of the operation, Major James said, was to “disrupt insurgent operations.”
    The governor of Kunar Province, Said Fazlullah Wahidi, said the operation began Wednesday as a joint Afghan and American air and ground operation in the districts of Sarkani and Marawara, close to the border of Pakistan. He said that 14 insurgents were killed and 10 were wounded, but he had no information about casualties among Afghan forces.

     
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You made a very valid point.

    I vote for peace.

    However, attachment is needed. If everyone parrots one religion or ideology, then there is no spice in life. :)
     

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