US may operate surveillance drones from Andamans

[pmaitra]

For the first time, I see you come around to my PoV on such matters.

We need the Jholawalas in foreign dept to come around too

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Thanks @Yusuf.

Indian territory is Indian territory, there can be no compromise on that.

Unfortunately, the Foreign Department cannot do much if the military is weak. We have neglected our military for far too long, and we have been giving gyaan to PRC about the virtues with nothing to back it up. India needs to quit being the proverbial "empty vessel that sounds much." We allied with the Soviet Union during the Bangladesh Liberation War, I do not see why we cannot ally with the US for a future war with Pak-PRC ensemble.

 

[WMD]

I rally doubt its going to happen.
India shouldn't give its soil for any foreign militaristic establishment. We are not part of any alliance. We have good relationship with US, Israel, and Iran, Palestine simultaneously.
Its not anti-US sentiments but we should not become just another pawn in America's control.
The threats we are facing now is from China, Pakistan is not a threat as far as IOR is concerned.
PRC is not going to attack us tomorrow and even if it does we have a credible navy to face the threats. In the meanwhile we are building up our capability in a massive scale to meet all the threats present and future.

 

[pmaitra]

I rally doubt its going to happen.
India shouldn't give its soil for any foreign militaristic establishment. We are not part of any alliance. We have good relationship with US, Israel, and Iran, Palestine simultaneously.
Its not anti-US sentiments but we should not become just another pawn in America's control.
The threats we are facing now is from China, Pakistan is not a threat as far as IOR is concerned.
PRC is not going to attack us tomorrow and even if it does we have a credible navy to face the threats. In the meanwhile we are building up our capability in a massive scale to meet all the threats present and future.

PRC will constantly try to make small inroads into Indian territory. You are right that PRC will not attack us tomorrow, but whenever it does, we need time to come close to PRC's military strength, and for the intervening period, we need to make friends with common interests. Diplomacy and alliances have always played a part in wars. It is better to have PRC worry about an alliance, than about individual countries.

 

[ladder]

PRC will constantly try to make small inroads into Indian territory. You are right that PRC will not attack us tomorrow, but whenever it does, we need time to come close to PRC's military strength, and for the intervening period, we need to make friends with common interests. Diplomacy and alliances have always played a part in wars. It is better to have PRC worry about an alliance, than about individual countries.

You are quite right in your assessment but, entering into any strategic alliance would not stop these small inroads.
The strategic alliance will only help by not letting these skirmishes take any larger shape.
The poking will continue from Chinese side to check where the red lines lies.
The answer to poking is poking back, for that no other nation is going to help us.For that we need to grow a spine.

Many would suggest that the strategic alliance would help our govt. be more assertive, but it is debatable.
But the larger picture is if we know how much to push and where to leave we effectively can poke back even without entering into any kind of multi-lateral strategic alliance.

 

[pmaitra]

You are quite right in your assessment but, entering into any strategic alliance would not stop these small inroads.
The strategic alliance will only help by not letting these skirmishes take any larger shape.
The poking will continue from Chinese side to check where the red lines lies.
The answer to poking is poking back, for that no other nation is going to help us.For that we need to grow a spine.

Many would suggest that the strategic alliance would help our govt. be more assertive, but it is debatable.
But the larger picture is if we know how much to push and where to leave we effectively can poke back even without entering into any kind of multi-lateral strategic alliance.

This back and forth poking will never end, and we saw what happened to Nehru's Forward Policy. So, I guess we are back to a possibility of war. The red line that you mention is very subjective. Anything can lead to an escalation. What should be India's response to PLA pokings is debatable. India needs to grow a spine, true, and I think that should be backed up by a strong military. That will take time, and my point is, at least in the intervening period, we cooperate a lot more with the US and get into some kind of an alliance. Sure, the Andamans is far from Ladakh, but it will send out a message. It also might provoke more pokings from PLA.

 

[SajeevJino]

They built a road 5kms inside Indian control, stopped a patrol party and the patrol party duly went back without completing the task.



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Somebody Here Saying we will not allow US assets in our Land

Let me ask you a Straight Questions ..What does the PLA doing ..They setting up Camps Getting resupply at regular Intervals

I strongly Support US drones in our lands even a RQ 9 drone from Kashmir and Launch some Missiles over PoK ..We won't control our own Problems even the Naxals and Mao problems


I won't oppose we need under the Rule of English or Americans like KSA nowadays

One more Questions Does our Forces can Able defeat the Chinese will Brahmos saves our Ass or the Agni will. .How is our AAD some Missile Test that's all balance everything is Vintage era Soviet Systems they need to be sit in Museams not in Battlefields

What about our Air force Does they are well Trained Dog Fighters or a Better trained SEAD's..

Only hope is Man power with some Sticks

 

[aerokan]

PRC will constantly try to make small inroads into Indian territory. You are right that PRC will not attack us tomorrow, but whenever it does, we need time to come close to PRC's military strength, and for the intervening period, we need to make friends with common interests. Diplomacy and alliances have always played a part in wars. It is better to have PRC worry about an alliance, than about individual countries.

Sure.. friends are more than welcome.. Alliances are fine too.. Becoming stooges by giving away access of our land to another countries defence forces is not acceptable. If they really want to make friendship, alliance etc.. please let us control the devices and let the information be passed to US after the data goes through our filters eliminating our country's data. How about an Indian listening station in California to keep a watch on eastern coast of China from the west?

 

[pmaitra]

Sure.. friends are more than welcome.. Alliances are fine too.. Becoming stooges by giving away access of our land to another countries defence forces is not acceptable. If they really want to make friendship, alliance etc.. please let us control the devices and let the information be passed to US after the data goes through our filters eliminating our country's data. How about an Indian listening station in California to keep a watch on eastern coast of China from the west?

During 1962 War, the US scrambled to help India, and swiftly started sending weapons as aid, which forced the PLA to unilaterally withdraw and save face; and it still bears that capacity. On the other hand, India is struggling to provide weapons to its own military. I think we should keep such realities in mind, when talking about an Indian listening post in California. It is all fine to talk about equal treatment and all, but the fact is, we should know where we stand.

As I already said, in principle, I would not allow US operating from an Indian base, but I think we have to be realistic here. I see PRC as a present and real threat, while the US is a possible future threat.

N.B.: Please bear in mind that India actually lost very little territory to PLA in 1962.

 

[ladder]

This back and forth poking will never end, and we saw what happened to Nehru's Forward Policy. So, I guess we are back to a possibility of war. The red line that you mention is very subjective. Anything can lead to an escalation. What should be India's response to PLA pokings is debatable. India needs to grow a spine, true, and I think that should be backed up by a strong military. That will take time, and my point is, at least in the intervening period, we cooperate a lot more with the US and get into some kind of an alliance. Sure, the Andamans is far from Ladakh, but it will send out a message. It also might provoke more pokings from PLA.

For the bold part, it's exactly what I wanted to say.
Nobody will come to man our borders, we will have to do it.
Nehru's Forward policy was flawed in both conception and execution and I don't want it repeated.
But what I am saying is to call Chinese bluff.
The only issue with entering an alliance is, that it also should have a exit door.
We need to be like France in Nato and not UK. The global lieutenant of USA

But, the way we are going I don't see that happening.

For the rest of your post, you are quite right and as it is a subjective issue and so liable for so many interpretation.

France withdrew from the integrated military command in 1966 to pursue an independent defense system but returned to full membership on April 3, 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

 

[aerokan]

During 1962 War, the US scrambled to help India, and swiftly started sending weapons as aid, which forced the PLA to unilaterally withdraw and save face; and it still bears that capacity. On the other hand, India is struggling to provide weapons to its own military. I think we should keep such realities in mind, when talking about an Indian listening post in California. It is all fine to talk about equal treatment and all, but the fact is, we should know where we stand.

As I already said, in principle, I would not allow US operating from an Indian base, but I think we have to be realistic here. I see PRC as a present and real threat, while the US is a possible future threat.

N.B.: Please bear in mind that India actually lost very little territory to PLA in 1962.

I do understand our limitations. That's why i mentioned California as a contextual question. If we have asked for American help in 1962 and USSR help in 1971, why can't we ask it again in 20xx when the actual war with PRC happens? And don't forget that neither India nor China are what they are in 1962. As you asked, let's be realistic for a moment.. Can PLA defeat Indian forces completely without losing most of their country? Is China willing to go that extent? Just by having a few listening stations in Andamans, does it stop China from doing anything on the land border? And where does the buck stop?

It doesn't make any sense to put our soverignity on the line for gains which may not be even worth while IN is perfectly capable of gathering naval intelligence.

 

[WMD]

PRC will constantly try to make small inroads into Indian territory. You are right that PRC will not attack us tomorrow, but whenever it does, we need time to come close to PRC's military strength, and for the intervening period, we need to make friends with common interests. Diplomacy and alliances have always played a part in wars. It is better to have PRC worry about an alliance, than about individual countries.

The possibility of a full scale war between two nuclear armed military powers is remote, but the small skirmishes will continue.
US bases are present in only NATO countries or major non-NATO allies like Pakistan and Australia. We are neither. If we let US open a base in Andaman the perception might be harmful for our relations with Russia and let's not forget Russia is still our lead arms exporter.
We don't need diplomacy and alliance with US to motivate US to contain China. US and its allies like S.Korea, Japan, Aus already have a vested interest in IOR and containing China's expansionist plans.
I never though abt it but it seems like US is interested in building a shadow empire worldwide.

 

[Yusuf]

One thing people in India have to realize that India is not going to become a Lackey of anyone or become a subservient of the US . Even the US recognizes that fact & is willing to work around it.

The Depsang incursion has exposed India & its potential to respond to aggression. If India was in a NATO like organization, would this have happened?

we need to come out of old mindset, What we need is peace for next 20-25 years where we can grow fast economically. An alliance with major power will be an insurance for us as well as reduce our cost on military allowing for better utilization of funds.

Unless strategic relations with the US is approached with a positive frame of mind, we will not be able to move forward & forever be stuck in the 1970's mindset.

 

[bose]

India must find a way out in operating very closely with US Navy in the IOR if directly allowing US base in India a real issue with us... Indian Navy can gain from anti submarine operations from US Navy experience... The only way to keep China under check is to have full control of the sea lanes in the Malacca straits...

A very clear message to China both be accommodating to its smaller else you will invite USA at your door steps...

 

[WMD]

India can't be a part of NATO.
The major non-NATO allies of US like Israel, Japan, S.Korea, Pakistan are facing both domestic and foreign aggression.
The civilian causality of US drone strikes in Afghanistan and Pak is well known.
What's to say that if India also were a major non-NATO ally the Chinese incursion wouldn't have happened?
The immediate need of India is strong and decisive leadership not alliances.

 

[bose]

During 1962 War, the US scrambled to help India, and swiftly started sending weapons as aid, which forced the PLA to unilaterally withdraw and save face; and it still bears that capacity. On the other hand, India is struggling to provide weapons to its own military. I think we should keep such realities in mind, when talking about an Indian listening post in California. It is all fine to talk about equal treatment and all, but the fact is, we should know where we stand.

As I already said, in principle, I would not allow US operating from an Indian base, but I think we have to be realistic here. I see PRC as a present and real threat, while the US is a possible future threat.

N.B.: Please bear in mind that India actually lost very little territory to PLA in 1962.

India has to take on PLA head on and the time is not very far from today when the Indian leadership has to take call... PLA will continue to probe India resolve in Ladhak from time to time... China wants to test India's patience and how much India can take and what is the tolerance limit...

India has to calibrate the response to China in an intelligent manner without the hogwash of so called political or otherwise independence bug by cooperating with USA"¦ China is the main threat to India we like it or not"¦

 

[mikhail]

Never!

USA or for that matter any country can never be allowed to have a base on Indian soil. It goes against the very fabric of India.

We need security now ? fu.k off, worst comes to worse we have nukes and hundreds of millions Indians willing to lay down there lives for India.

with all due respect sir,do you really think that millions of Indians will be willing to lay their lives in case of a nuclear war?i mean,these are the ordinary people who are more concerned about earning their livelihood than they care about the nation!i mean if you think that DFI is the only platform to judge the patriotism of the common Indians then i must say that you have failed to understand the common masses of India.hell yeah there are thousands of nationalists like you and me in this country but our percentage is insignificant when compared with the total population of this country.the larger section of our population don't want to get involved in any kind of a war and beleive me they don't give a hoot about the national security!
lastly what make you think that the G.O.I. will have the gut to nuke our enemies!

 

[Yusuf]

India can't be a part of NATO.
The major non-NATO allies of US like Israel, Japan, S.Korea, Pakistan are facing both domestic and foreign aggression.
The civilian causality of US drone strikes in Afghanistan and Pak is well known.
What's to say that if India also were a major non-NATO ally the Chinese incursion wouldn't have happened?
The immediate need of India is strong and decisive leadership not alliances.

Off course India can't be part of NATO.
No we don't need to be MNNA.

What we are taking about is the emergence of NATO like organization in Asia with countries like US, Aus, Japan India as the principle states. It is imperative that India works in this direction

 

[Dovah]

And I thought it was about time we took Diego Garcia back

 

[Yusuf]

And I thought it was about time we took Diego Garcia back

Back ?

 

[Dovah]

Back ?

Back for the displaced natives. For freedom from tyranny you know.