US may offer India-like nuke deal to Pak!!!

Agantrope

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The answer to this should hopefully be known soon or else it will be another arm twisting point for USA against India. Give the deal to Pakistan and get it over with these maybe or maybe nots are idiotic Obama games.
Obama is proving that is Idiot #1. They are still to under they are not out of recession and they need some money. Let's wait for the official confirmation
 

ahmedsid

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hmmm so thats the end of it eh? US dismisses reports? Atleast Pakistanis can sleep well tonight, because all that exciting talks about nukes must have killed of their sleep for the past day :D Nukes and Pakistan are words which give anybody sleepless nights :p
 
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India as a political twist needs to make a statement they will support NSG waiver for Pakistan this will have a dual benefit of being a goodwill gesture toward pakistan and it will screw USA and the double game they are trying to play,and make the NPT look like a joke it always has been.
 
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ajtr

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Doesn't matter. Everybody knows what kind of double games PA is playing in Afghanistan. Whatever is being done for Pakistan is only to get a safe exit from Afghanistan. Pakistan is among many contemporary nuclear proliferators against which there is strong evidence and that is why it is much easier to kick Pakistan on the nuclear issue by other countries. With what face US will go in front of NSG to get a waiver in the background of such overwhelming evidence against Pakistan in nuclear proliferation. Highly unlikely.
those who think that pakistan is being pampered now so that nato can safely pull out from afghanistan then they are on wrong track.USA presence will be there in indian subcontinent for the long time to come only thing is now usa will be based in pakistan along with some city centers of afghanistan through the deals they gonna cut with so called good talibans.only thing is lot of fore ground work of CI and reining of the terror groups will be done by hired PA.usa will be back-room dealer in all this.And to achieve this usa has to cut deals wrt to pakistani army's interests too as it did during 1980s.whaterver pakistan sought in 1980s it got from usa including the nuke bombs with usa pretending to look other way.secondly afghan chess game is not going to get over by nato pull out rather it will enter another phase with new pace.

either usa will go along with china and pakistan as happened in late 1970s against ussr or usa will treat china as next challenger to be dealt with so usa tries to bring pakistan out of china;s embrace which i dont think usa can able to do now.PA being tactically brilliant will try to milk both china and usa against each other.

And regarding 40 member of NSG they dont carry any weight they all jist tow line of p-5 or rather these days p-3 heavy weights.india didnt get approval at nsg coz of its impeccable non-prolifiration record but due to the heavy lifting done by usa-russia-france and in many case arm twisting done by usa in case of newzealand and austria.if usa can do this heavy lifting for india then it sure can do the same for pakistan with support from china.
 

ajtr

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'US not discussing civil nuclear pact with Pak'

“The U.S. has not entered (into) negotiations on a civil nuclear agreement with Pakistan,” a spokesperson of the U.S. embassy in the capital told PTI, a day after media reports said Washington may discuss Islamabad’s request for cooperation in setting up nuclear power plants in the country.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/577120_-US-not-discussing-civil-nuclear-pact-with-Pak-
Hold on a sec.isnt it the style of usa dealing with host country that they issue statements which pleases its hosts.As someone said before in this same thread that usa officials speak with forked toungue.they say one thing in new delhi and quite the opposite in islamabad.so unless something comest out of DC or holbrokes-albright-kerry-lugar team by 24th of march in DC its not right to say "thats all folks"
 

Daredevil

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And regarding 40 member of NSG they dont carry any weight they all jist tow line of p-5 or rather these days p-3 heavy weights.india didnt get approval at nsg coz of its impeccable non-prolifiration record but due to the heavy lifting done by usa-russia-france and in many case arm twisting done by usa in case of newzealand and austria.if usa can do this heavy lifting for india then it sure can do the same for pakistan with support from china.
It does matter. Remember France and Russia can be forced to play spoil sport at NSG and other countries can be get onboard by keep hitting them with Pakistan's perfidy on nuclear proliferation. You have no idea how much it helped India having an impeccable record on nuclear proliferation. It is highly unlikely that Pak will be given a nuclear deal as that will open doors for Iran and others to impinge on NPT obligations even more blatantly by showing the hypocrisy and moral hollowness of P-5 via-a-vis Pakistan nuclear deal. As I said earlier, forget about NSG, getting the bill passed in US congress itself is very very difficult unless Pakistan signs NPT, which it is most unlikely to do.
 

ajtr

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Certain section of US law makers, mostly democrats are so praised to pakistan due to defeat of Soviet Union in Afganistan & always tries their best to keep pakistan econmically & militarily match with India. These section believes that India was/is buddy of USSR/Russia & Pakistan is still the real strategic partner of USA. They are still to come out from their cold war time mentality towards India.
If indians think that democrat presidents were most anti- indian than the republican then lets see some of the mos anti and pro indian presidents in usa.....

1. JFK was democrat but was mostly pro indian .he did supported india in china war but was held back due to 1962 cuban crisis with ussr
2. Nixon was republican and everyone in india and bangladesh know how pro-pakistan he was.that he even turned blind eye on 3 million bengali genocide by PA.
3.reagan was 1st democrat then changed to rebulican and got elected as republican president he was more pro-pakistan.
4.Bush senior was republican but mostly neutral in indo-pak affair.presseler amendment came under his term(i suppose)
5. bill clinton was democrat and pro pakistan because of secretary of state albright.taliban were created under his watch and by his nod by isi.later he turned pro india in 2nd term after kargil war.civil nuke talks actually started under his watch by talbot and jaswant singh.
6.Bush junior was republican and pro india but 9/11 turned him to pakistan but he didnt lose india focus.civil nuke deal was his only accomplishment.
7.obama is democrat seems to be anti-india from the start.though indians voted for him overwhelmingly.he has held back india co-operation on many front.He has bought two amendments as senator against india in 123 civil nuke cooperation.( 1. The first amendment was an innovative insertion that imposed fetters on uranium-poor India’s access to fuel, restricting such imports to “reasonable reactor operating requirements.” 2. Obama helped insert another amendment to ensure that America did not facilitate civil nuclear exports to India by other states, if U.S. exports to New Delhi were terminated under American law.)....secondly obama has all previous anti -india officials back in his adminstration.he will come to terms with india as clinton did if he ever get elected to 2nd term.but by that time it will be too late for him to make indian leadership trust him.Remember an elephant has Long Memory
 

ajtr

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** my reply is in blue

I have a feeling that It's unlikely to happen....
1) Cut ties with USA
india will lose more than usa.india is in no position to to harm usa.heck we even capped our ICBM at 5000km only.

2) Cancel Nuclear Deal with USA, We have Russia and France already.
again loser will be india only

3) Eliminate F-16 and F-18 out of MMRCA Deal.
$10-13 billion deal is nothing for usa.its giving more than that to pakistan.

4) Call back Indian soldiers from Afganistan.
Indian soldiers are not fighting taliban on behalf of uncle sam they are there to protect indian investment projects and consulate and to provide security to indians working there.so it doesnt matter to usa anyway if india pull out.indian pull out wil rather help usa as thats wat pakistan want.

5) Support Iran, launch their satellite. It'd surely impact Israel but it'd won't break the ties. Both countries have multi billion dollars defense cooperation.
how can you be sure that it wont break ties with israel.iran is to israel wat pakistan to india.

6) make commitment to not purchase any US military hardware.
doesnt matter to usa it has many other countries ready to buy its weapons.any way india was not buying weapons from usa for 60 yrs.
 

GokuInd

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I have a feeling that It's unlikely to happen....

IF...USA agrees for Nuclear Deal with Pakistan, India should do :-

1) Cut ties with USA

4) Call back Indian soldiers from Afganistan.
1) So you'd like to axe India's largest export market, huh?
4) We've never had any Indian soldiers in Astan.
 

ajtr

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It does matter. Remember France and Russia can be forced to play spoil sport at NSG and other countries can be get onboard by keep hitting them with Pakistan's perfidy on nuclear proliferation. You have no idea how much it helped India having an impeccable record on nuclear proliferation. It is highly unlikely that Pak will be given a nuclear deal as that will open doors for Iran and others to impinge on NPT obligations even more blatantly by showing the hypocrisy and moral hollowness of P-5 via-a-vis Pakistan nuclear deal. As I said earlier, forget about NSG, getting the bill passed in US congress itself is very very difficult unless Pakistan signs NPT, which it is most unlikely to do.
who will force France and russia.does india carry any leverage with france.russia i can agree but usa+china leverage will be more than indian leverage on france and russia.india's impeccable nuke proliferation record did what for india-----to get exiled for 40 years.without any access to tecnology and in the end after 40 years the biggest proliferator throws some crumbs towards india in form of civil nuke deal which is still incomplete and watered down from wat was promised in 2006.P-5 never had morality.if they had then there would be any discriminatory NPT at all.
 

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who will force France and russia.does india carry any leverage with france.russia i can agree but usa+china leverage will be more than indian leverage on france and russia.india's impeccable nuke proliferation record did what for india-----to get exiled for 40 years.without any access to tecnology and in the end after 40 years the biggest proliferator throws some crumbs towards india in form of civil nuke deal which is still incomplete and watered down from wat was promised in 2006.P-5 never had morality.if they had then there would be any discriminatory NPT at all.
Wrong again. We have a good leverage with France and Russia than US& China have with them. We can dangle nuclear reactors deal, Mirage 2000 upgrades or MMRCA, more Scorpenes etc with France and use their leverage to scuttle the deal or NSG waiver. France has a lot to loose by going against Indian wishes. So is Russia. Also it is easy for France and Russia to go against Pakistan for the simple reason that they are on good side of morality and no body, including US & China, can arm twist them.

You are mistaken that US has leverage on France. US was unable to make France slap sanctions on India when we tested nuclear bombs, so you can imagine how much leverage they have.
 

ajtr

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Wrong again. We have a good leverage with France and Russia than US& China have with them. We can dangle nuclear reactors deal, Mirage 2000 upgrades or MMRCA, more Scorpenes etc with France and use their leverage to scuttle the deal or NSG waiver. France has a lot to loose by going against Indian wishes. So is Russia. Also it is easy for France and Russia to go against Pakistan for the simple reason that they are on good side of morality and no body, including US & China, can arm twist them.

You are mistaken that US has leverage on France. US was unable to make France slap sanctions on India when we tested nuclear bombs, so you can imagine how much leverage they have.
china + usa can dangle more money than india can if they truly wish that pakistan must get nuke deal.
 

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china + usa can dangle more money than india can if they truly wish that pakistan must get nuke deal.
Again you are getting wrong. China and US are not going to spend tens of billions to get a nuclear deal to Pakistan which is not even capable to buy their own nuclear reactor.
 

ajtr

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Again you are getting wrong. China and US are not going to spend tens of billions to get a nuclear deal to Pakistan which is not even capable to buy their own nuclear reactor.
Nope....sure USA and china spend money in billions if pakistan dutifully advances their strategic interests.its all give n take.
 

Daredevil

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Nope....sure USA and china spend money in billions if pakistan dutifully advances their strategic interests.its all give n take.
How much they can spend and how and on what they will spend in the context of leverage with France and Russia. Please enlighten.
 

ajtr

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How much they can spend and how and on what they will spend in the context of leverage with France and Russia. Please enlighten.
few 100 billion usd.it can be anything to everything to economic leverage to defence co-operation etc.And they do have deep pockets to spend than india.its india up against usa+china in terms of leverage on france and russia.we have already seen usa leverage on russia and france when they refused to give reprocessing tech to india on obama;s insistence at g-8 or G-20 summit at italy last year.
 

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few 100 billion usd.it can be anything to everything to economic leverage to defence co-operation etc.And they do have deep pockets to spend than india.its india up against usa+china in terms of leverage on france and russia.we have already seen usa leverage on russia and france when they refused to give reprocessing tech to india on obama;s insistence at g-8 or G-20 summit at italy last year.
You gotta be kidding me
. Why will US & China will spend 100 billion dollars to get a nuclear deal for Pakistan when their own economies are in doldrums. US is already stingy in giving alms to Pakistan mostly in the range of less than 10 billion and now you are talking about 100 billion for Pakistan when many states in US are nearing bankruptcy due to lack of funds.

Reprocessing technology is on the cards. It will happen sooner than later. Have patience. But, I do remind you that we do have reprocessing rights.

BTW, you didn't spell out how will US & China will spend the money on France and Russia.
 

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