US may offer India-like nuke deal to Pak!!!

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by bhramos, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    WASHINGTON: Amid reports of massive 16-20 hour power outages across Pakistan causing public unrest, the Barack Obama administration has indicated it is open to Islamabad's plea for a civilian nuclear deal akin to the US-India agreement, notwithstanding continued disquiet about Pakistan's bonafides on the nuclear front.

    The first indication of a possible policy shift by US, which had till now rejected Pakistan's entreaties for a nuclear deal, came in an interview the US ambassador to Islamabad, Anne Patterson, gave to a Pakistani-American journal in which she said the two sides were going to have "working level talks" on the subject during a strategic dialogue on March 24.

    Patterson confirmed the claim of her Pakistani counterpart in Washington Hussain Haqqani, which were initially denied, that the two sides had had some initial discussions on the subject. Acknowledging that earlier US "non-proliferation concerns were quite severe", she said attitudes in Washington were changing.

    "I think we are beginning to pass those and this is a scenario that we are going to explore," she told a LA-based Pakistani journal.

    Another top US official, Af-Pak envoy Richard Holbrooke, was a little more circumspect. "We're going to listen carefully to whatever the Pakistanis say," he replied, when asked about Islamabad's demand for a civilian nuclear deal.

    The Pakistani establishment, ahead of a wide-ranging strategic dialogue with US on March 24, has made parity with India, including a civilian nuclear deal, the centerpiece of its ramped-up engagement.

    Intimations of a change in US policy came even as new reports emerged about the extent and scope of government-backed Pakistani nuclear proliferation in a book by former weapons inspector and non-proliferation activist David Albright. Successive US administrations, in an effort to absolve Islamabad and save it from embarrassment from past misdemeanors, have suggested that the country's nuclear mastermind A Q Khan acted on his own without permission from the Pakistani government or the military, but this assessment is strongly challenged by the non-proliferation community.

    Talk of a nuclear deal with Pakistan also comes on the heels of the country signing a gas pipeline deal with Iran last week even as Washington was bearing down on Tehran.

    The idea that Pakistan deserves its own nuclear deal to overcome a trust deficit with the United States was first proposed by Georgetown University academic Christine Fair. "More so than conventional weapons or large sums of cash, a conditions-based civilian nuclear deal may be able to diminish Pakistani fears of US intentions while allowing Washington to leverage these gains for greater Pakistani cooperation on nuclear proliferation and terrorism," Fair argued in a newspaper article earlier this year.

    However, aside from Pakistan's proliferation footprints and ties with Iran, there is also the small matter of getting such a nuclear deal past the 44-member Nuclear Suppliers Group, which made an exception for India but might find Pakistan more unpalatable. The US-India deal itself remains to be fully implemented more than five years after it was first conceived.

    Some experts also question whether Pakistan has the capacity to buy or absorb any nuclear power reactor given that the country is broke. But then, even signaling a shift in US policy is something that might mollify Pakistan for now. In fact, even Fair's recommendations of a conditional nuclear deal was seen in some Pakistani quarters as a conspiracy to penetrate and neutralize the country's nuclear assets.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...like-nuke-deal-to-Pak/articleshow/5709719.cms
     
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  3. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    Not happening, take my word for it. Pakistan has been very low ranked when it comes to trust on sensitive technologies. No one has forgotten they were running nuclear black market, height of being irresponsible, they only cared about money.
     
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I knew this was going to come soon, in many ways this was expected, when India was getting the Bush nuclear deal China was pushing for the same for Pakistan. This is a civilian energy nuclear deal. When Pakistan gets it I think USA should also finance it. There are some obstacles like the NSG waiver especially when I think what the Russian position it will be clear, they will ask the same for IRAN.

    How does this impact India? In the following ways:
    India realizes the Bush nuclear deal was not special and India needs to review it's US policy
    India needs to give a very limited number of nuclear deals to USA after all it was USA that made India a nuclear pariah
    India needs to see what US weapons really need to be bought from US when similar weapons will be given to Pakistan free
    India needs to further commit to staying outside the NPT
    India can start discussing IPI pipeline more seriously
    India can back Russian stance on the nuclear issue with Iran instead of voting against Iran like last time India could ask if the same stringent requirements will be given to Pakistan which have elements of NPT,FMCT,MCTR, ad testing etc...
    Any separation of pakistani civilian and military facilities will be revealing how advanced the pak program is

    One good thing I like to add is all Indian FAST BREEDER REACTORS are on the military side one very clever move by Indian gov who probably suspected pak will get a similar deal in the future
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  5. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    crap!

    Maybe US government will open "Working Level Talks" with Pakistan & assure them a conditional Nuclear Deal, are other NSG members going to even entertain this idea?? iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

    There is no need of any dossiers to know that Pak soil is dominantly used to plot attacks on European/western countries, & all NSG members are aware of the real situation...
    PRC might come out with a very confident support to this inane proposal but nothing will ever move out of paper...

    If Pakistan want to gain the International confidence or change its image it needs a good PR lobby not a secured Nuclear Deal!

    What leverage Washington wants now?? They are leaving! This is totally baseless and nonsense excuse....
    If i can think of anything at the last corner of my imagination is Obama wants to showcase Pakistan as nuclear safe country under his so called "Nuclear Free World" movement ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    I don't understand why Indian media house like TOI, writing such articles? It'll only create insecurity among Indians & others about pakistan... No place for "responsible journalism" in today's world...
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    If this is the reward for nuclear proliferation, more countries should do it. It is clear being a good boy playing by the rules is a waste of time.
     
  7. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Couldn't better! LF you summarized the entire thing in the best way possible... kudos!
    India need to shape its US policy primordially now...

    If this thing goes through, I'm very sure International political community is dividing into two groups again!!
    USA ****
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  8. mehwish92

    mehwish92 Founding Member

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    won't happen. period. if USA pushes for this, it will lose all of the little credibility that it has. but even if US does push for it, it won't happen.
     
  9. xebex

    xebex Regular Member

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    Exterminating an Emo means one low-life less!
    India went through hardship just to get approval from Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) even with full support of US. I dont think it would be a cake walk as far as NSG is concerned.
     
  10. Ritwik

    Ritwik Regular Member

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    India will get the Russians to kill it at the NSG, provided this proposal ever reaches that far. AFAIK, a consensus is required for deals of this sort to obtain NSG clearance.
     
  11. GokuInd

    GokuInd Regular Member

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    Not to speak of passing major obstacles withhin the US bureaucratic system (had been difficult enough in India's case anyway).
     
  12. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just 10 days ago this N deal had been categorically rejected by Holbrooke.
    However with the "strategic dialogue " slated for 24 th March , US ambassador to Pakistan Ms. Patterson
    had to say something sweet to the people So she must have said this NONSENSE.

    The Non Proliferation Lobby in the US democratic party is so strong, that this proposal would be "killed"
    with a rider of complete US control over Pak N weapons and sites.

    With Iran N tensions becoming bigger by the day , the Iranians (and also Northern koreans )would be
    jumping with joy as this would mark the formal demise of the NPT.

    The spectre of jihadis moving freely through out Pakistan cannot be ignored and with more enriched Uranium
    being available,makes a Nuclear Plant in Pakistan a perfect place ,for a terror strike.
     
  13. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    tell me whats the big deal if USA give civil nuke deal?Its USA's headache to work out the nitty-grity of it with pak . and if it goes for NSG voting as did for india then india must sure vote in favour of a civil nuke deal for pakistan.coz they also voted in our favour though with some arm twisting with uncle.Now if uncle was ok with pakistan accquring nuke bomb in 1980 with uncle's winking and by pretending to see other way then sure uncle is ok with civil nuke deal with pak.Thats another matter in 1980 only india was worried about pakistani nukes but after 9/11 it became usa and whole west 's migraine.so now we need not fear.only think is just direct all threats from pak directed at india towards west and usa and watch the fun of them dealing with it like nukes and terror which was directed at india whole of 190s an early 2000s now groppling the whole world after 9/11.even L-e-T after 26/11 started to threaten west now just have popcorn and wait for new wrestling match between L-e-T and usa.will be coming soon.remember the bottomline ----- For islamic bomb and terror organisation india is just like a consolation prize.ultimate prize for them to bag are the superpowers of west---usa,UK,europe.>>>>>>
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  14. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    India is NOT a member of NSG .Neither is Pakistan. Both are members of IAEA, there Pakistan voted in favor
    Of Indian N deal and even if it had opposed Nothing would have happened because there is no "veto" concept in IAEA .Decisions such as " The India SPECIFIC safegaurds agreement " was approved by a majority of the IAEA
    members.

    The real fun will be the NSG . Remember how tiny countries like Austria, New zealand, Ireland gave us three
    sleepless nights.

    However the biggest blow will be to US image globally in case it goes that far , canvassing for a "Nuclear delinquent" like Pakistan.
     
  15. DaRk WaVe

    DaRk WaVe Regular Member

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    i personally believe its nothing more than Bullocks, US will never offer us any deal similar to the one Indians got, it will be more of a miracle if we got it, but why loose 'Hope' :D

     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  16. DaRk WaVe

    DaRk WaVe Regular Member

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    In a first, US may discuss Pak’s n-plants demand


    Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi arrived here on Sunday with a high-power delegation to hold the first-ever strategic dialogue with US leaders, during which it is expected to seek civilian nuclear deal and military equipments aimed at balancing its power with India.

    Prominent members of the delegation included Pakistani Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, ISI Chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha and Defence Minister Ahmed Mukhtar. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton would lead the US delegation.

    In a departure from its earlier stand, the US is ready to discuss Pakistan’s request for nuclear power plants, a media report said on Sunday.

    “We are beginning to have a discussion with the Pakistan government” on the country’s desire to tap nuclear energy, US envoy in Islamabad Ambassador Anne W Patterson was quoted as saying in a Los Angeles-based Pakistani newspaper. She told the Pakistan Link newspaper that earlier America’s “non-proliferation concerns were quite severe” but attitudes in Washington were changing. “I think we are beginning to pass those and this is a scenario we are going to explore,” she added.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/In-a-first--US-may-discuss-Pak-s-n-plants-demand/593818
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  17. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    wats so special in indo-us nuke deal that the pakistan can't get????indo-us nuke deal is just watered down NPT.Or may be pakistan can even get better deal than india without the separation plan and limited IAEA intrusion in its nuke plants.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  18. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pak N-bid may hit NSG hurdle

    Washington: Pakistan’s bid to forge a civilian nuclear deal with the United States may get thwarted by the 44-member Nuclear Suppliers Group, which made an exception for India but might find Pakistan more unpalatable. The US-India deal itself remains to be fully implemented more than five years after it was first conceived.
    Some experts have also questioned whether Pakistan has the capacity to buy or absorb any nuclear power reactor given that the country is broke.
    However, even signaling a shift in United States’ policy is something that might mollify Pakistan for now. Georgetown University academic Christine Fair was the first to propose the idea that Pakistan deserves its own nuclear deal.
    ‘‘A conditions-based civilian nuclear deal may be able to diminish Pakistani fears of American intentions while allowing Washington to leverage these gains for greater Pakistani cooperation on nuclear proliferation and terrorism,” the United States-based academic had argued in an article earlier this year.

    http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Defa...=Ar00300&DataChunk=Ar02003&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T
     
    DaRk WaVe likes this.
  19. 1.44

    1.44 Member of The Month SEPTEMBER 2009 Senior Member

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    With Pakistan's past record on proliferation and the extremist elements staging attacks every other day doesn't leave much for the US to convince other states to a nuke deal for Pak.Not even halfway decent business oppurtunities.NSG wouldn't risk encouraging Pakistani nuke capability
     
  20. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Well if you are talking about rules no one follows rules in realpolitik.The P-5 countries who sermonise whole world about NPT are the biggest proliferator of nukes.Thats the reason india never signed any treaty like NPT/CTBT/FMCT etc terming them as discriminatory.And yes discriminatory they are......
     
  21. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Let me put my conspiracy theory in this. All those who think the pakistani government is purposely cutting power for 20 hours to instigate its people to protest so that it can prove to the US that it has a problem, put your hands up.

    Pakistan is asking for parity with india. Why can't it ask for a deal period. Why say we want what india says? Nothing but like a kid who wants the goodies the neighbor has. There is no way any deal will be given as pakistan will not be able to fund it. As it is its living on hand outs. Where will it get the billions for nuke plants? Companies like GE won't work for free for them and surely the US won't be sucked into giving the pakistanis a nuke plant in charity.
     

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