US infantry units in Afghanistan get the Carl-Gustav RCL

[Kunal Biswas]

[h=2]US infantry units in A-stan gets the Carl-Gustav RCL[/h]
US army inf units in Afghanistan is being equipped with the Carl-Gustav recoilless rifle. It's notable that the weapon was fielded in the Swedish army in 1948. That's 63 years ago and the design is virtually unchanged. Only more modern materials is used to reduce the weight.



At last they have realised the need for portable RCL...
US army use M67 90mm Recoiless Rifles in Afghanistan, and even some M40 106mm have seen use.

 

[Ray]

Carl Gustav Rocket Launcher is one of the finest weapon and IA has been using it for long.

It can launch a variety of rounds for different type of targets.

 

[JBH22]

Good weapon for mountain warfare but i believe in Indian scenario kargil type war we should complement it with the Schmel Thermobaric weapon in bunker buster role.

what you say kunal?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It was used but more frequent were shipons as they were cheaper compare to Schmel ..

 

[ALBY]

US infantry units in A-stan gets the Carl-Gustav RCL


US army inf units in Afghanistan is being equipped with the Carl-Gustav recoilless rifle. It's notable that the weapon was fielded in the Swedish army in 1948. That's 63 years ago and the design is virtually unchanged. Only more modern materials is used to reduce the weight.



At last they have realised the need for portable RCL...
US army use M67 90mm Recoiless Rifles in Afghanistan, and even some M40 106mm have seen use.

its once more evident that age is not a matter as far as a good weapon is considered.M67 fielded by us forces are of heavy weight approx 17 kg.Its nice that they switched to much lighter carl gustavs.

 

[SPIEZ]

Can there be a comparison between Shipon and Carls Gustav ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Can there be a comparison between Shipon and Carls Gustav ?

Shipon is single shot light weighted RL comes in HE & HEAT only..

Carl Gustav is Medium weighted Multi-shot RL with variety of Ammo..

 

[JBH22]

Shipon is single shot light weighted RL comes in HE & HEAT only..

Carl Gustav is Medium weighted Multi-shot RL with variety of Ammo..

Does Carl Gustav have an ammo with proximity fuse?

 

[SPIEZ]

Shipon is single shot light weighted RL comes in HE & HEAT only..

Carl Gustav is Medium weighted Multi-shot RL with variety of Ammo..

Meaning you have to throw out a Shipon launcher once it's been used ? Isn't that a waste needing to carry both the ammo and the launcher ?

 

[utubekhiladi]

Shipon is single shot light weighted RL comes in HE & HEAT only..

Carl Gustav is Medium weighted Multi-shot RL with variety of Ammo..

kunal do we have anything similar?

 

[JBH22]

kunal do we have anything similar?

yes IA use it and Kunal has been one of the most vocal proponents of this weapons it seems the video showing US forces with Carl Gustav changes perception of many DFI members.

 

[SPIEZ]

Hope this is usefull

Ammunition


Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle ammunition (inert rounds).


Improvements to the ammunition have been continual. While the older HEAT rounds are not particularly effective against modern tank armor, the weapon has found new life as a bunker-buster with an HEDP round. In addition, improved HEAT, high explosive (HE), smoke and illumination (star shell or flare) ammunition is also available. For full effectiveness, illumination rounds have to be fired at a very high angle, creating a danger for the gunner as the backblast from firing can burn him. For this reason several armies have retired the illumination rounds, while the US Army requires that they be fired from a standing position.
The following are Canadian designations (other countries use similar terminology, replacing the "FFV")

• FFV441 is an HE round, useful in a "lobbed" trajectory to 1,000m, which can be fused to either detonate on impact or as an airburst.
• FFV441B is an HE round with an effective range against personnel in the open of 1,100 m. The round arms after 20 to 70 m of flight, weighs 3.1 kg, and is fired at a muzzle velocity of 255 m/s.[SUP][4][/SUP]
• FFV469 is a smoke round fired like the FFV441, with a range of about 1,300 m. The 3.1 kg round is also fired at 255 m/s.[SUP][4][/SUP]
• FFV502 is an HEDP round with the ability to be set to detonate either on impact or one-tenth of a second afterwards. Effective range is 1,000 m against dispersed soft targets such as infantry in the open, 500 m against stationary targets, and 300 m against moving targets. Minimum range is 15 to 40 m to arm the warhead. Penetration exceeds 150 mm of rolled homogeneous armour (RHA). Ammunition weight is 3.3 kg and muzzle velocity is 230 m/s.[SUP][4][/SUP]
• FFV545 is an illuminating starshell, fired up to 2,300 m maximum range, but with an effective envelope of 300 to 2,100 m. Suspended by parachute, the starshell burns for 30 seconds while producing 650,000 candela, providing a 400 to 500 m diameter area of illumination.
• FFV551 is the primary HEAT round and is a rocket-assisted projectile (RAP). Effective range is up to 700 m (400 m against moving targets) and penetration up to 400 mm of RHA. Ammunition weight is 3.2 kg and muzzle velocity is 255 m/s.[SUP][4][/SUP]
• FFV552 is a practice round with the same ballistics as the 551.
• FFV651 is a newer HEAT round using mid-flight rocket assistance for ranges up to 1,000m. In theory, it has less penetration than the FFV441, but it includes a stand-off probe for the fuse to improve performance against reactive armour.
• FFV751 is a tandem-warhead HEAT round with an effective range of 500 m and ability to penetrate more than 500 mm of armour. Weight is 4 kg.[SUP][4][/SUP]

It would be interesting to know what rounds the IA uses.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

kunal do we have anything similar?

Carl Gustav MK2/3 weight 11kgs and 8kgs or less and its been in Indian Army for generations since 80s..

Does Carl Gustav have an ammo with proximity fuse?

Yes, We do..

[h=1]HE441B[/h]

The ammunition is fired from Gun 84 mm RCL Carl Gustaf M2 from theshoulder of the army. The cartridge combines some of the characteristics of Rocket and Artillery ammunition in its design. The ammunition is of fixed type and is spin stablished.This ammunition is intended for use against troops in the open and in slit trenches, machine gun posts soft skinned trasport vehicles and similar types of targets.It is fitted with a combined mechanical time and impact fuze.o.F1301-115201C.


The design of the ammunition parts and functioning are like Artillery components excepting that the rare of the cartridge case is closed by a plastic blow out disc (base plate) which allows rearward escape of the propellant gas to make it recoilless and the ignition of thepropellant is by a side-located percussion cap and an igniter composition.


The cartridge case is made of light aluminium alloy drawn to specification BS 1470 grade 6082 TF or IS 736 grade 64430 WP. At the rear, it is formed with a flange which is cut away over a length to take a guide while loading the round in the gun. At about 90 degree from the cut away flange a hole with two diameters is provided on the body of the cartridge case to take the percussioncap.The shell body is made of steel to specification DIN17200 Code 25 Cr Mo 4 with carbon percentage 0.26 to 0.29. It encloses two inserts of neoprene rubber containing about850 steel balls, the inserts surrounding the HE charge RDX/TNT. While filling the HE (RDX / TNT) a central cavity in two diameters is made to take two booster pellets and the time and impact fuze FFV447. The shell body takes the driving band of copper.The shell body is so designed that the danger area for rearward fragments from the point of brust is small. Propellant is NGB204 which is a ballistite propellant. The fuze FFv447 is dual-purpose fuze of both impact and mechanical time types. This ammunition is of Swedish design and is manufactured to Government of India, Ministry of Defence Specification Number CQA0312 and Drawing No.F1301-115201C.

Others:

Meaning you have to throw out a Shipon launcher once it's been used ? Isn't that a waste needing to carry both the ammo and the launcher ?

Yes, But at high altitudes weight matters alot, Shipons are active in PARA SF and Other SF within India and Israeli Forces..

yes IA use it and Kunal has been one of the most vocal proponents of this weapons it seems the video showing US forces with Carl Gustav changes perception of many DFI members.

Thanks JBH22, Their is no Man portable RCL capable of doing so much as Carl Gustav..

 

[ALBY]

Shipon is single shot light weighted RL comes in HE & HEAT only..

Carl Gustav is Medium weighted Multi-shot RL with variety of Ammo..

KUNAL are u sure it is single shot?coz its written that it is reusable one..and can has a firing rate of 3 to 4 rounds per minute..
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=117

 

[ALBY]

kunal how about deploying rpg7s coz they are lighter than any reusable rocket launchers..even though not accurate over 150 mts its rugged and cold be used in jungle & urban warfare to knockoff guerillas

 

[Kunal Biswas]

KUNAL are u sure it is single shot?coz its written that it is reusable one..and can has a firing rate of 3 to 4 rounds per minute..
IMI B-300 - Reusable Anti-Tank Rocket System - History, Specs and Pictures - Military, Security and Civilian Guns and Equipment

I am sure coz in CT ops it used by Para SF mostly, The don't carry ammo for these, when fired they dispose them, May be use again ? i don't know abt that..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

kunal how about deploying rpg7s coz they are lighter than any reusable rocket launchers..even though not accurate over 150 mts its rugged and cold be used in jungle & urban warfare to knockoff guerillas

RPG 7 is a excellent RL within 100m, More than that it have accuracy issues, RPG-7 optical sights are very complex, though in good hand it is a fearsome weaponry, It regular and widely use ammo is PG-7 types which are 85"‰mm Heat round, Very effective agaisnt Light & Medium Armour Vehicles, But not so Infantry ..

Indian Army use MGL for such ranges and its effective against Infantry & Light Vehicles, And from Long range CG 84mm, For destroying Enemy fortification accurately CG 84mm can do the job with a single Round where as RPG-7 need multiple rounds..


In Kargil Indian army use CG 84mm from long range to destroy Enemy bunkers where enemy rifles cannot engage the CG`s gunners, It was a cheaper solution than using Milans..

 

[ALBY]

RPG 7 is a excellent RL within 100m, More than that it have accuracy issues, RPG-7 optical sights are very complex, though in good hand it is a fearsome weaponry, It regular and widely use ammo is PG-7 types which are 85"‰mm Heat round, Very effective agaisnt Light & Medium Armour Vehicles, But not so Infantry ..

Indian Army use MGL for such ranges and its effective against Infantry & Light Vehicles, And from Long range CG 84mm, For destroying Enemy fortification accurately CG 84mm can do the job with a single Round where as RPG-7 need multiple rounds..


In Kargil Indian army use CG 84mm from long range to destroy Enemy bunkers where enemy rifles cannot engage the CG`s gunners, It was a cheaper solution than using Milans..

i was not saying about long range but for short range in naxal scenarios in dense jungle and urban areas where you couldnt see beyond much and why shipons are selected if its too heavy and single shot?we could have do the same with LAWs if needed lightweight

 

[Kunal Biswas]

i was not saying about long range but for short range in naxal scenarios in dense jungle and urban areas where you couldnt see beyond much and why shipons are selected if its too heavy and single shot?we could have do the same with LAWs if needed lightweight

MGL 40mm does better than RPG-7 against infantry in close ranges..

Shipon is chosen coz during 1998-2000, IMI was delivering all kinds of good stuff..

May be in future IA go for AT4..

 

[SPIEZ]

RPG 7 is a excellent RL within 100m, More than that it have accuracy issues, RPG-7 optical sights are very complex, though in good hand it is a fearsome weaponry, It regular and widely use ammo is PG-7 types which are 85"‰mm Heat round, Very effective agaisnt Light & Medium Armour Vehicles, But not so Infantry ..

Indian Army use MGL for such ranges and its effective against Infantry & Light Vehicles, And from Long range CG 84mm, For destroying Enemy fortification accurately CG 84mm can do the job with a single Round where as RPG-7 need multiple rounds..


In Kargil Indian army use CG 84mm from long range to destroy Enemy bunkers where enemy rifles cannot engage the CG`s gunners, It was a cheaper solution than using Milans..

Sir, sorry for the niave question, but what exactly is the CG 84mm and the MGL ?