US forces had orders to target Indian Army in 1971

[W.G.Ewald]

Guys, let me tell you one thing. You can be critical of US Foreign Policy (so am I), but then, don't let that make you assume things about the American people. This is one thing I must emphasize here.

I'm sure most here understand that Americans do not have resentment against the people of any particular country. What I do see is a growing fear and antipathy against Muslims in a small segment of the population here.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Just to make this article useful in a reexamination of the situation in 1971, what would 3 battalions of US Marines represent as a threat to India's armed forces at the time, given that they would be supported by CVN-65? What could they have realistically accomplished?

 

[pmaitra]

Just to make this article useful in a reexamination of the situation in 1971, what would 3 battalions of US Marines represent as a threat to India's armed forces at the time, given that they would be supported by CVN-65? What could they have realistically accomplished?

A Carrier Battle Group can have the Carrier, USS Enterprise in this case, and approximately 20 other ships. I do not know exactly how many US Navy Ships were there in that Battle Group, but with 20 ships, it was more than enough to cause serious destruction in the Indian ranks.

I do not think the US would have deployed foot soldiers on the ground.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Well then maintaining a good trade relationship with America is more than enough and at the same time we should maintain the defence relationship with Russia. Russia has advanced technology as equal as America and technologically we need not rely on the Americans in defence sector. We can make trade relations in other areas such as the IT sector, cars etc. This will be enough. We can help the Americans to overcome their financial crisis and at the same time gain technology from Russia. Basically what the Americans need is the INDIAN money getting invested in their country. This will be enough to maintain a smooth relation with US and also at the same time we can maintain our good relationship with our long lasting friend the RUSSIA.

 

[sayareakd]

A Carrier Battle Group can have the Carrier, USS Enterprise in this case, and approximately 20 other ships. I do not know exactly how many US Navy Ships were there in that Battle Group, but with 20 ships, it was more than enough to cause serious destruction in the Indian ranks.

that is why Smiling Buddha in 1974. All credit to Indra for successful handling of 1971 and her signing Indian-Russian friendship treaty.
some say that Indian Russian treaty has secret clause, that is why USA and China did not intervene militarily.

while reading the text of treaty i found something interesting

(ARTICLE IX)
Each High Contracting Party undertakes to abstain from providing any assistance to any third country that engages in armed conflict with the other Party. In the event of either being subjected to an attack or a threat thereof, the High Contracting Parties shall immediately enter into mutual consultations in order to remove such threat and to take appropriate effective measures to ensure peace and the security of their countries.

Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Yusuf]

The seventh fleet would have destroyed the eastern navy of india. We would have lost our carrier, they would have bombed Madras, vizag, kolkata. Serious damage. But I still don't think they would have prevented Bangladesh from being formed. US would not even dare putting boots on tr ground. The role of the three battalions ready is debatable.

 

[Rahul92]

What was Russia doing

 

[Yusuf]

What was Russia doing

Prevented all that from happening. And it was not Russia but Soviet Union.

 

[Rahul92]

I am sorry its in Russian

 

[Rahul92]

This video is about the Russian role in 1971 y. Indo-Pakistani conflict and about the Soviet-American opposition in Indian Ocean. It's a part of the Russian TV program 'Strike Force'. The translation is mine.

In 1971, December, 3 the World has become an attestor to a new war between India and Pakistan. At afternoon the Pakistani aviation has strike the Indian cities and airstrips. The Indian PM Indira Gandhi put the country in emergency state and gave the order to nip the aggression. Hard clashes were started on the ground in the air, and at the sea.

Historic document: "Confident. December, 10, 1971. Moscow. For the DM Marshal Andrey Grechko. According to the information from our attaché in Delhi in the first day of conflict the Indian destroyer 'Rajput' has sunk a Pakistani submarine by depth charges. In December, 4 and 9, the Indian fast boats have destroyed and damaged 10 Pakistani battle ships and vessels by the P-15 missiles. In addition 12 oil storages was burned in flame. The Commander of the Military Intelligence Service Gen. Pyotr Ivashutin".

In the same day the Soviet Intelligence has reported that the British Naval group with the leadership of 'Eagle' carrier went closer to the territorial waters of India. The Soviet Government immediately sent a unit of battle ships under the leadership of counter-admiral Vladimir Kruglyakov for helping to the fraternal country.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"I received the order from the Chief Commander 'To not allow access of the American Navy to the Indian military objects'.

- On the way of American Navy stood the Soviet cruisers, destroyers and atomic submarines equipped with anti-ship missiles.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"We encircled them and I have targeted the 'Enterprise' by missiles. I have blocked them and didnt allow enclosing to Karachi, nor to Chittagong or Dhaka".

On the Soviet ships then were only the missiles with limited to 300 km range. Thus, to be sure the rival is under the hindsight the Russian commanders have had to take the risk of maximal enclosing to the American fleet.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"The Chief Commander has order me: 'Lift the subs when they (the Americans) appear!' It was done to demonstrate, there are all the needed in Indian Ocean, including the nuclear submarines. I have lifted them, and they recognized it. Then, we intercepted the American communication. The commander of the Carrier Battle Group was then the counter-admiral Dimon Gordon. He sent the report to the 7th American Fleet Commander: 'Sir, we are too late. There are the Russian atomic submarines here, and a big collection of the battleships'.

The war was then two weeks long, and it has finished by Pakistani forces surrendering.

 

[Poseidon]

Russian video mentions that the Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMS Eagle tried to intervene in 1971 India – Pakistan war, which led to creation of Bangladesh.

The clip posted on Youtube (watch here) mentions that the British Naval group with the leadership of 'Eagle' carrier went closer to the territorial waters of India. The video is in Russian. A military enthusiast, Igor Djadan (Read here) has translated it into English.

hms eagle india pakistan 1971 warHistoric document: "Confidential." December, 10, 1971. Moscow. For the DM Marshal Andrey Grechko. According to the information from our attaché in Delhi in the first day of conflict the Indian destroyer 'Rajput' has sunk a Pakistani submarine by depth charges. In December, 4 and 9, the Indian fast boats have destroyed and damaged 10 Pakistani battle ships and vessels by the P-15 missiles. In addition 12 oil storages was burned in flame. The Commander of the Military Intelligence Service Gen. Pyotr Ivashutin".

In the same day the Soviet Intelligence has reported that the British Naval group with the leadership of 'Eagle' carrier went closer to the territorial waters of India. The Soviet Government immediately sent a unit of battle ships under the leadership of counter-admiral Vladimir Kruglyakov for helping to the fraternal country.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembes:

"I received the order from the Chief Commander 'To not allow access of the American Navy to the Indian military objects'.

- On the way of American Navy stood the Soviet cruisers, destroyers and atomic submarines equipped with anti-ship missiles.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"We encircled them and I have targeted the 'Enterprise' by missiles. I have blocked them and didn't allow enclosing to Karachi, nor to Chittagong or Dhaka".

On the Soviet ships then were only the missiles with limited to 300 km range. Thus, to be sure the rival is under the hindsight the Russian commanders have had to take the risk of maximal enclosing to the American fleet.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"The Chief Commander has order me: 'Lift the subs when they (the Americans) appear!' – It was done to demonstrate, there are all the needed in Indian Ocean, including the nuclear submarines. I have lifted them, and they recognized it. Then, we intercepted the American communication. The commander of the Carrier Battle Group was then the counter-admiral Dimon Gordon. He sent the report to the 7th American Fleet Commander: 'Sir, we are too late. There are the Russian atomic submarines here, and a big collection of the battleships'.

The war was then two weeks long, and it has finished by Pakistani forces surrendering.

British aircraft carrier ‘HMS Eagle’ tried to intervene in 1971 India – Pakistan war - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion


So not just the Americans even Britishers helped them despite the genocide by Pakistani Army.

Moral of the Story:A nation has no friends only interests.

 

[S.A.T.A]

There was no love lost between India and unites states and this had very little to with Nixon or his administration personal dislike towards Mrs Gandhi.This was more of a continuation of the general suspicion American harbored with regard to Nehru's India's political allegiance,the catechism Nehruvian socialism was as a popular in the west as the Marxist communist and Washington abhorred both with equal disdain,moreover Pt Nehru made bones about where 'non aligned' India's real allegiance lay if it came to that.US considered India as a soviet lackey and either did New Delhi nor Moscow go out of the way to dispute it.Washington would have gone to any length in 1971 to thwart India's strategic objectives,the only reason they stayed out was because Nixon by then was making determined efforts to extricate the US from the Vietnam imbroglio simply couldn't end up in another cold war quagmire,this one infinitely bigger.suffice to say US would have been happy to see Pakistan survive the war in one piece.

There is no reason why India should carry a US hangover from the 71 war,but its prudent to remember who where 'with us and who were against us'(no pun intended).We should not get carried away by all the talks about strategic partnership and shared values,we must remember that when two large countries become equals in truest sense of the word,they dont become partners but competitors.

In the foreseeable future India is destined to compete with both US and China for global influence and resources,a three way competition will not last long and sooner or later two of them will strike alliance to the disadvantage of the other.The challenge before India is to figure whether we ally with China or the US and in the meantime ensure China and US dont join forces against us.like somebody noted no permanent friends or enemies in diplomacy,only permanent interests.

 

[SPIEZ]

OK by me, and probably most Americans, but you might hear from Hillary, and is that something you want?

OK, war is not a laughing matter, but IMHO if Pakistan cannot keep its own house clean it must at long last bear the consequences.

Very well said sir :clap:

 

[The Messiah]

^^ Pretty much agree with you. In general, take what makes sense for us, and reject what doesn't. Maintain the same attitude with all nations. And most certainly, the Indo-US relationship has to be based on commerce and trade, rather than any "strategic or military pact".

Anyway, so far things have gone quite well, no? I am happy with the way our netas and babus have handled this so far. No need for any paranoia. Just go along the same path.

I think i can agree with that.

I dont want military pact with usa but an economic one would be beneficial to us but at the same time we shouldn't get dependent on them.

Then when we have enough expertise we can get rid of the yanks and start manufacturing ourselves

 

[Rahul M]

apologies if these have been posted earlier, I checked only the first page.

these are the declassified documents the report is based on
1971 war
Office of the Historian - Historical Documents - Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969–1976, Volume XI, South Asia Crisis, 1971

this list covers the 1965 war.
Office of the Historian - Historical Documents - Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964–1968, Volume XXV, South Asia - India and Pakistan

 

[Param]

I think i can agree with that.

I dont want military pact with usa but an economic one would be beneficial to us but at the same time we shouldn't get dependent on them.

Then when we have enough expertise we can get rid of the yanks and start manufacturing ourselves

The Yanks know that. They understand us very well that is why they do not really endorse our views on Pak sponsored terror or Kashmir and a number of other issues.

 

[Adux]

America send in their Carrier Battle Group.
Now get into a fight with a country of India's size, power and influence, as well as a Soviet Ally, Americans sending in one carrier battle group is as good as sending nothing, which was proved by the fact, that indians didnt yield even an inch.


Also this is coming from the same MEA who thought Zia was a good man. I would take care their 'assessment' of the situation with more than a 'little doubt'. Toilet Paper

 

[Adux]

There was no love lost between India and unites states and this had very little to with Nixon or his administration personal dislike towards Mrs Gandhi.This was more of a continuation of the general suspicion American harbored with regard to Nehru's India's political allegiance,the catechism Nehruvian socialism was as a popular in the west as the Marxist communist and Washington abhorred both with equal disdain,moreover Pt Nehru made bones about where 'non aligned' India's real allegiance lay if it came to that.US considered India as a soviet lackey and either did New Delhi nor Moscow go out of the way to dispute it.Washington would have gone to any length in 1971 to thwart India's strategic objectives,the only reason they stayed out was because Nixon by then was making determined efforts to extricate the US from the Vietnam imbroglio simply couldn't end up in another cold war quagmire,this one infinitely bigger.suffice to say US would have been happy to see Pakistan survive the war in one piece.

There is no reason why India should carry a US hangover from the 71 war,but its prudent to remember who where 'with us and who were against us'(no pun intended).We should not get carried away by all the talks about strategic partnership and shared values,we must remember that when two large countries become equals in truest sense of the word,they dont become partners but competitors.

In the foreseeable future India is destined to compete with both US and China for global influence and resources,a three way competition will not last long and sooner or later two of them will strike alliance to the disadvantage of the other.The challenge before India is to figure whether we ally with China or the US and in the meantime ensure China and US dont join forces against us.like somebody noted no permanent friends or enemies in diplomacy,only permanent interests.

China has already figured out their alliance, even though the said alliance partner exports terror into their Xingjiang (?) areas.

Look at the Chinese relationship with the US. They were allies in World War 2, then they became enemies in Korean War, then they became allies again, and now they are on the path to become enemies again. Both US and China, has been prudent and realistic about the business of 'country' running. I think we are childish, melodramatic, morally grandstanding idiots!

 

[The Messiah]

America send in their Carrier Battle Group.
Now get into a fight with a country of India's size, power and influence, as well as a Soviet Ally, Americans sending in one carrier battle group is as good as sending nothing, which was proved by the fact, that indians didnt yield even an inch.


Also this is coming from the same MEA who thought Zia was a good man. I would take care their 'assessment' of the situation with more than a 'little doubt'. Toilet Paper

I believe it came from declassified american records.

 

[Adux]

I believe it came from declassified american records.

Nope, I think it is coming declassified 'Indian documents' about our MEA assessment's about 'American intentions'. The Zia documents also comes from similar declassification.