US fighters lost MMRCA contract due to technical faults

[civfanatic]

Buying Yankee equipment is the first step to becoming a Yankee puppet.

I'm glad our babus showed some semblance of intelligence and refrained from doing so.

 

[asianobserve]

"Buying Yankee equipment is the first step to becoming a Yankee puppet."

So India before was just glad to be a losers (USSR's) puppet? Why not then a winner's puppet?

 

[mayfair]

"Buying Yankee equipment is the first step to becoming a Yankee puppet."

So India before was just glad to be a losers (USSR's) puppet? Why not then a winner's puppet?

Beacuse then we would be Pakistan.

 

[asianobserve]

You'll become Pakistan by being both a US and a Chinese puppet...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

please don't get me wrong but apart from other technical deficiencies the biggest deficiency of american fighters are that they are american.india can never really rely on america on supply of critical components,tot,after sales support and also because it is the only state which has been pouring billions of dollars of aids to a failed state called pakistan.

 

[Ray]

France very vocally announced that it will be selective in supplying upgrades to Pakistan for the weapons it sold to the latter.

Are upgrades a part of the package when an equipment is sold? And is it endless till the end of time? Would it be economically viable for the seller to part with upgrades forever as a part of the deal?

Do upgrades come free and without renegotiations?

Will India get upgrades to the Scorpene submarines?

Or does the contract end with ToT?

You'll become Pakistan by being both a US and a Chinese puppet...

Having avoided till now from becoming puppets and earning the ire of all during the Cold War, I would be surprised if we become a vassal to anyone.

Friends? Yes.

Vassals? NO.

And we are not a sold out country from the days of Independence like Pakistan. nor are we an economic desert like Pakistan.

We will chug along, thanks to no one's mercy!

 

[asianobserve]

"Having avoided till now from becoming puppets and earning the ire of all during the Cold War, I would be surprised if we become a vassal to anyone."

Wasn't India USSR's lapdog in South Asia? Memories can be short...

 

[ace009]

"Having avoided till now from becoming puppets and earning the ire of all during the Cold War, I would be surprised if we become a vassal to anyone."

Wasn't India USSR's lapdog in South Asia? Memories can be short...

No, India wasn't USSR's "lapdog" at any time. If you look into history, you will find that never in their history had USSR had a missile base, an army base, a naval base or an airforce base in India. Never did a single platoon of soviet combat soldier stayed in India, nor did a single soviet military operation take place from India. Even in the haydays of soviet war in Afghanistan, USSR was not allowed to use India as a base for anything, not even supplies. India was a major trade partner of USSR, buying weapons and mashinery and selling food, garments etc.
As for India not buying US equipment, remember, India is already doing that, recon planes, transport planes etc. Combat planes probably were perceived risky due to C & C issues and old airframe design.
Compared to that, most european nations ARE US lapdogs, with small defense budgets, US bases and US soldiers protecting them.

 

[asianobserve]

In fact some of the posters here are ranting as if they're still working for the KGB...

 

[asianobserve]

Compared to that, most european nations ARE US lapdogs, with small defense budgets, US bases and US soldiers protecting them.

Compare India to Germany, UK, Spain...? They're all first world countries...? So what's wrong with being a US puppet then?

 

[Illusive]

@asianobserve

its just the matter of grapes being sour for the americans.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

The airframes for F-16 and SH have not changed in 20+ years, while EF and Rafele are newer designs.

That's is a common misconception, the F/A-18 E/F has evolved considerably since it first joined the US Navy. The forward fuselage of the Block II Super Hornets is now of a single piece carbon composite fabrication. Not to mention 50% of the fasteners have been eliminated reducing weight. If you follow the engineering change proposals you will gain a clearer insight into the technology insertion into each block upgrade. As to why the F/A-18 E/F was eliminated OR why India decided not to consider the EPE while assessing the Hornet; I don't know the answer to that question. But Washington is convinced the reason for its elimination isn't technical, Boeing has accepted the loss and moved on as has the administration.

 

[JAISWAL]

As to
why the F/A-18 E/F was
eliminated OR why India
decided not to consider
the EPE while assessing
the Hornet; I don't know
the answer to that
question.
.
@DBC
.
The reason for India to not consider EPE is, it was offered more on as a after-thought after seeing the euro-cancard and their latest version offers, rather an genuien submission of official bid for mmrca.. and GOI ruled out any enhancement or attenuation in the originally submitted bid.

 

[JAISWAL]

here is the official reason of EPE rejection as said by boeing
Boeing recommends more power
for the aircraft's F414 EPE device
launch, maximum thrust to
promotion of 20%, What, then
met with the Indian side of the
rejected, reason this is being
launched machine also being
developed, not yet decided type.
.
Link below
.
Indian Army out of F-16 and F-18 fighter jets because » link free articles
.
.

 

[asianobserve]

here is the official reason of EPE rejection as said by boeing
Boeing recommends more power
for the aircraft's F414 EPE device
launch, maximum thrust to
promotion of 20%, What, then
met with the Indian side of the
rejected, reason this is being
launched machine also being
developed, not yet decided type.
.
Link below
.
Indian Army out of F-16 and F-18 fighter jets because � link free articles
.
.

How about the Eurocanards, aren't they still in the development stage. The last time I heard the Europeans are still busy developing their promised EASA radars while the SH and the F16 have them bolted already into their airframes.

 

[JAISWAL]

How about the Eurocanards, aren't they still in the development stage. The last time I heard the Europeans are still busy developing their promised EASA radars while the SH and the F16 have them bolted already into their airframes.

.
Yes they are, but the development of rafale is going on without any other country being involved in sell, same for e.f. But for f-18 the development work is only senction for the last upgrade of its life time in SH world view as us neavy and other operators will be retiering it as soon as f-35 become oprational.
And for f-16 upgrade the least said is better as it has reached its final upgrade in block-IN offered to India.
Thats not the case with eurocancards.

 

[JAISWAL]

again i am posting an extract of artical that describe why f-18 and f-16 were rejected.
.
WAFF | World's Armed Forces Forum: Tellis: US fighters lost MMRCA contract due to technical faults
.
.
.
According to Tellis' sources in the IAF, the F-16IN
bid received low marks in the technical
evaluation for a slow turn rate and poorer
handling performance due to the addition of
conformal fuel tanks.
Those deficiencies made the F-16IN less
competitive in dogfights against older F-16 Block
50s, which are operated by Pakistan.
The Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet was the US
government's best shot to win the contract, but
it was also hampered in the Indian evaluation by
poor manoeuvrability compared to the European
fighters, Tellis said.
Boeing's bid proposed to improve the Super
Hornet's power by introducing the General
Electric F414 enhanced performance engine (EPE)
, with 20% higher thrust.
But the Indian evaluators refused to credit the
EPE because it is a developmental item, Tellis
said.
This contrasted with India's acceptance of active
electronically scanned array (AESA) radar
technology by the European bidders despite its
developmental status.
"They just gambled on the fact that they were
going to get an AESA by the time the airplane
was going to enter the force," Tellis said.
The decision also reflected the IAF's preference
for an aircraft with strong dogfighting
performance over a combat style emphasising
beyond visual range engagements using long-
range sensors, Tellis said.

 

[JAISWAL]

Rafale Upgrade Ready in 2012
.
.
.

AESA Radar Ready for Production
.
Separately, DGA is flight-testing
further improvements to the
Rafale, says Lt. Col. Olivier
Bordes, director of Rafale flight
testing at the agency's facility at
Cazaux air base. "Now, we are
focusing on the Link 16 and
AESA radar integration, and their
test and evaluation phase is
being carried out in June and
July." Final qualification of the
RBE-2 AESA radar will be the
major development milestone for
this year, Bordes said.
This radar will equip all 60
aircraft of the 4th production
batch, ordered in December
2009 and comprising 10 Rafale M
carrier fighters and 25 Rafale C
single-seaters and 25 Rafale B
two-seaters for the air force.
Deliveries are scheduled from
mid-2013 to end 2019. The
current production rate is of 11
aircraft per year, a remarkably
low figure that nonetheless
allows the program to remain
economically viable, and
Dassault Aviation to turn a profit,
despite the lack of export orders.
The AESA radar will improve
detection range and the ability to
detect targets with small radar
cross-section, and will be
compatible with the future
Meteor air-to-air missile of which
France ordered an initial batch in
December 2010 for delivery in
2018. Flight-testing is carried out
with a modified Falcon 20
business jet and a hybrid test-
bed which combines a Mirage
2000B two-seat airframe fitted
with the Rafale's nose and AESA
radar. The aircraft sports DGA
markings and a ghost-grey color
scheme.

 

[heartrocker22]

@ asianobserve
"Finally how you are claiming that Europe also have strings attached to the deal,on what grounds,do you have inside information,any relevant source or just vague assumption's."
we r just trusting them coz they don't have global ambitions like u ppl...... US is nothing but military cartel .if they even feel that there is tension between two nation there salesman will reach there and provide weapon to both nations .......meanwhile US leaders will keep shouting about peace like cheerleaders.....
Accepted that ur weapons are of good quality but it times of war we don't need someone who will supply weapons to both sides and make money.... we want someone who will stop selling weapon to both nation and stop war from progressing......
u guys create monsters like al qedea , nuclear weapons and a race to be superpower..... US is nothing but hypocrisy at its best

 

[asianobserve]

@ asianobserve
"Finally how you are claiming that Europe also have strings attached to the deal,on what grounds,do you have inside information,any relevant source or just vague assumption's."
we r just trusting them coz they don't have global ambitions like u ppl...... US is nothing but military cartel .if they even feel that there is tension between two nation there salesman will reach there and provide weapon to both nations .......meanwhile US leaders will keep shouting about peace like cheerleaders.....
Accepted that ur weapons are of good quality but it times of war we don't need someone who will supply weapons to both sides and make money.... we want someone who will stop selling weapon to both nation and stop war from progressing......
u guys create monsters like al qedea , nuclear weapons and a race to be superpower..... US is nothing but hypocrisy at its best

You misquoted me. But such lofty words from an aspiring "superpower." Believe me when India is in the inviable position as number 1 it will do everything to stay on that position. Unless of course all of a sudden Indians become losers.