US Denies Transfer of Critical Technology and F-16 Fighter Production in India

Vijyes

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There are friends - Israel. Of course, it is also interest based but Israel will get annihilated if they are left alone. So, they can be trusted to give full assistance.

Also, one must understand that USA has risked a lot of things just to ensure Israel's survival. It even faced oil embargo in 1973 and a chance of losing Arabs to Soviet Union. Luckily, the dogmatic atheistic attitude of Soviets and the connivance of US and Arabs to help "Liberate Afghanistan" from Soviets and make it an islamic state brought back the Arabs into USA fold. Israel is definitely not that a helpful nation for USA to risk the oil rich Arab region's support.

Everything is not just about interests but some cultural aspects are indeed considered as we have seen in case of US-Israel relations. Even in case of India-Pakistan or India-Bangladesh relations, the civilisational aspects take top priority.

Russia is supplying Uranium to India and the Kundankulam deals are getting bigger and bigger. It is definitely not that India "needs" reactors from Russia for nuclear power. India has the capability to make nuclear reactors on its own. Russia definitely doesn't need that much of a money to supply Uranium as it has huge oil reserves and produces as much oil as Saudi Arabia. Still, it does give certain strategic things to India. Russia also assisted India in getting nuclear submarine by helping in miniaturisation of reactor. Though there is some interest part, Russia for most part is friendly to India.

Then again, since the regime changes can change policies, it is necessary to be guarded and not give all secrets. Congress, for example was handled from Saudi-Pakistan spy-ring with Ahmad Patel as point man. Such people can definitely not be trusted. What if COngress comes back? Also, India never helped Russia or USA in a big manner. So, expecting one sided relations either with Russia or USA is not fair.
 

Kalki_2018

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This is good news. IAF and IN should accept the fact that LCA and AMCA are important and they will not have any other option.
 

Kay

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Good news we can now dump this 200 Single engine fighter deal and put our weight behind Tejas ..we have enough reasons to dump this deal with F-16 what are we going to do without AESA technology transfer we are going to do another screw driver job for that we better do it for our own Tejas rather doing it for Amerikis ..if we want to please the amerikis for political purpose we can by Tomahawk Cruise missiles as our Nirbhay is totally non starter ...

Lets give life to Tejas
Nirbhay will succeed. It's only a matter of time. We can let it take its own sweet time thanks to Brahmos.
 

Scarface

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Back after a hiatus,
I find the source article of dubious quality.
Especially because it's the only article claiming that the US has denied us tech transfer although that is quite possible.

Has anyone been able to find the footage of the session mentioned in the article, I'm searching for it as I type.

That being said, considering the nature of the demands, it is quite possible that the US may actually refuse, if we expect foreign nations to give us sensitive stuff like this then it's our own fault for expecting this.

If this is true then it looks like Gripen is about to move in and I'd rather have a less capable aircraft made in India like Tejas than a less capable aircraft made by a foreign company
 

Vijyes

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Back after a hiatus,
I find the source article of dubious quality.
Especially because it's the only article claiming that the US has denied us tech transfer although that is quite possible.

Has anyone been able to find the footage of the session mentioned in the article, I'm searching for it as I type.

That being said, considering the nature of the demands, it is quite possible that the US may actually refuse, if we expect foreign nations to give us sensitive stuff like this then it's our own fault for expecting this.

If this is true then it looks like Gripen is about to move in and I'd rather have a less capable aircraft made in India like Tejas than a less capable aircraft made by a foreign company
Technology like AESA is not f16 technology. It is a separate installation as addon. Lockheed sources it from the same vendor which supplies for F35, F22, FA18 etc. So, expecting AESA ToT for F16 is foolish. Only airframe, avionics or other highly related aspects can be expected ad ToT.
 

Vijyes

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This is good news. IAF and IN should accept the fact that LCA and AMCA are important and they will not have any other option.
This is good news. IAF and IN should accept the fact that LCA and AMCA are important and they will not have any other option.
It was congress that was causing problems and not IAF or IA. Blame the right people
 

Scarface

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Technology like AESA is not f16 technology. It is a separate installation as addon. Lockheed sources it from the same vendor which supplies for F35, F22, FA18 etc. So, expecting AESA ToT for F16 is foolish. Only airframe, avionics or other highly related aspects can be expected ad ToT.
My point exactly,
As far as I know the ToT of concern to us is the engine technology(For Tejas) whose joint development US linked with India's purchase of Vipers/Super Hornets and as far as I recall we did have a written assurance of ToT with the Pentagon although that was under the more predictable Obama administration.
 

airtel

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My point exactly,
As far as I know the ToT of concern to us is the engine technology(For Tejas) whose joint development US linked with India's purchase of Vipers/Super Hornets and as far as I recall we did have a written assurance of ToT with the Pentagon although that was under the more predictable Obama administration.
Indians are Making ingenious GaN based AESA radars ..........that will be used in AMCA ...........as of Now Americans dont have GaN based AESA radars in any Fighter jet and they are still working on it and improving it's capabilities so how they will provide TOT to India ?

India is not far behind them ...........they are also making GaN foundry in IISC Bangalore and soon they will start making AESA radars , EW systems and other electronics based on GaN .


 

Scarface

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Indians are Making ingenious GaN based AESA radars ..........that will be used in AMCA ...........as of Now Americans dont have GaN based AESA radars in any Fighter jet and they are still working on it and improving it's capabilities so how they will provide TOT to India ?

India is not far behind them ...........they are also making GaN foundry in IISC Bangalore and soon they will start making AESA radars , EW systems and other electronics based on GaN .


That's very good for us, but we need the American help for the AMCA, 110-125kN thrust engines.
I hope if the tender isn't scrapped we go for the F-16 and jointly develop a good engine for Tejas/AMCA with the US,

SAAB can't give us Engine Tech because they depend on US for engine themselves and as you posted we already have a GaN AESA in the pipeline so SAAB doesn't seem to have much to offer
 

airtel

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That's very good for us, but we need the American help for the AMCA, 110-125kN thrust engines.
I hope if the tender isn't scrapped we go for the F-16 and jointly develop a good engine for Tejas/AMCA with the US,

SAAB can't give us Engine Tech because they depend on US for engine themselves and as you posted we already have a GaN AESA in the pipeline so SAAB doesn't seem to have much to offer
we need such kind of stealth technology ( Used in F-35 ) for AMCA .......
the RAM coating technologies used in F-22 & pak-fa are extremely costly ...after few hours of flight they have to apply RAM coatings on F-22 , this is why USA is not making more F-22 .

is lockheed martin ready to share this technology ?? that is very difficult .

maybe DRDO can develop such kind of technology themselves or they are getting such technology from France .



upload_2017-8-4_3-0-58.png



source = http://www.airforce-technology.com/features/feature128011/



we are working with France on Engine technologies .............we can develop rest of the technologies ourselves .

Saab dont have any significant GaN related technology ................American company Raytheon is making T/r modules for Saab ......................if they themselves are dependent on USA then how they will share any critical technology to India ??

They are just doing Propaganda to sell their Gripen .
 
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cannonfodder

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Saar, MK1A is what IAF wants. Even MK1 is good enough to order more(replace flying coffins) and get private line going. Mk1 can have incremental improvements(MK1 ---> incremental ---> MK1A) that is how product is polished & finished. MK2 is Navy requirement & IAF guys just hoped on to the idea.

India has overcame lot of problems with first AC development with setting up infrastructure for designing/development. Now we are chickening out on last step to mass produce and diversify sub-system providers. Whatever improvements are required by IAF can be made incrementally( almost every problem except engine is solvable as I have understood reading here & BR). If we succeed with LCA; AMCA may just happen otherwise most likely it will be just another R&D project.

Order F16/Gripen today you will get after 3 years off shelf; assembly in India may require at least 5 years. We must be generous and throw the same money on local products/R&D. :hat:

Those friends backing HAL Tejas forget a major hitch; HAL simply won't expedite the production of Mk.2. The government will have to declare war on somebody in order to get these slowpokes to expedite the development and testing of Mk.2.
 

TPFscopes

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It was congress that was causing problems and not IAF or IA. Blame the right people
Now you are pointing on right direction. They are the actual references behind every Indigenous effort either by developers or by Defense forces.
They derailed many projects like hf-24 , hf-73 and even they tried to close Tejas project.
 

TPFscopes

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For reducing the dependence on other Nations , ADA and HAL decide to use Indigenous AESA, EW suite in first phase and Engine on second phase for our own LCA TEJAS MK1A.
Right now the developers are looking more confident to use Indigenous avionics and other equipment on our own jet. Also they want to expertise their technology before using it on cutting edge jets like AMCA and TEJAS MK2.
Mk1A will be the most trusted testing platform for Indigenous developments.
 

Scarface

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we need such kind of stealth technology ( Used in F-35 ) for AMCA .......
the RAM coating technologies used in F-22 & pak-fa are extremely costly ...after few hours of flight they have to apply RAM coatings on F-22 , this is why USA is not making more F-22 .

is lockheed martin ready to share this technology ?? that is very difficult .

maybe DRDO can develop such kind of technology themselves or they are getting such technology from France .



View attachment 18535


source = http://www.airforce-technology.com/features/feature128011/



we are working with France on Engine technologies .............we can develop rest of the technologies ourselves .

Saab dont have any significant GaN related technology ................American company Raytheon is making T/r modules for Saab ......................if they themselves are dependent on USA then how they will share any critical technology to India ??

They are just doing Propaganda to sell their Gripen .
Frankly speaking the private sector in the US has been always open to ToT,

It's the Arms Export Control laws which prevent them from doing so, even top NATO allies like Britain didn't get the ToT of sensitive F-35 tech

Our co-operation with France is regarding the Kaveri engine,which won't be able to power the AMCA which requires 110-125kN engines,France itself doesn't seem to have much experience with building such high thrust engines for their figthers
 

IndianHawk

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Frankly speaking the private sector in the US has been always open to ToT,

It's the Arms Export Control laws which prevent them from doing so, even top NATO allies like Britain didn't get the ToT of sensitive F-35 tech

Our co-operation with France is regarding the Kaveri engine,which won't be able to power the AMCA which requires 110-125kN engines,France itself doesn't seem to have much experience with building such high thrust engines for their figthers
France will have to build something for it's upcoming franco-german jet. That might be in the range of what Amca will require.
 

square

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When you are asking for sources from him and he gave it to you, you should consider it properly. If you disagree, the onus now lies on you to provide source yourself. Do you have sources to back your words?
i just hope there be more people like you around....DFI would be better place for debate !!!
 

lcafanboy

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Cross posting from PARIKRAMA


This is the news you were anticipating the most.. here goes

Back to back evaluation of modified Israeli F16 followed by LCA took place for high altitude and extreme cold zone performance and mission efficiency.
Tejas performed better than F16 in our airbase tests. That's confirmed and now on record with IAF again post MMRCA.
Also there was a problem with engine sheat fins getting jammed and a special anti freeze had to be used which is again imported.
The Tejas engine while lower power was able to work after pre heat and heat up cycles.
Now the MK2 development story
A radical proposition is being evaluated -Mk2-S
The Mk2-S is the dual engine variant of Tejas and is said to have a similar wing design as the SE MK2. Essentially it will have more power to boost.
There are tests going on for vectoring right now and seeking advisability to remove those huge radar beacons in the back.
Now new procurements updates
Rules for large plane requirements were passed by the government.
Finalizing rules and then posting the requirements to all the countries for invites is left.
Its now a Grade-A deal which has increased from Grade-C two months ago.


Invite for a formal MII will come to your side soon as official are formally moving.. off the shelf numbers will be jacked up as per the indications as well..

Limited chance left for all foreign OEMs.. whomosver comes will be the one who will design the internal of Mk2-S Tejas variant and will be twin engine powered (targeted Safranised Kaveri)

If Dassualt grabs it then Mk2-S will be mini Rafale ( @MilSpec).

The F16 and Gripen chances are reduced a lot with performance of Tejas....only left is when they will get inducted in large numbers..
 

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