US, China heading towards Cold War?

[LETHALFORCE]

I dont think that differance is there with China, it does not mean that we wont have conflicts and differances, We are going to be the two big dogs in the pact and are going to test each other from time to time.

Then why not cut our defense budget and close our Pacific bases?? why
couldn't the same powersharing arangement be done with Russia?? It
would have made USA seem more genuine with our Pacific allies. China has
already defeated USA indirectly in 2 wars Korea and Vietnam what makes them
more benign than Russia?

 

[devil510]

Surprisingly lot of US oil comes from the US, about 41%, after that Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela in that order provide our biggest amounts of foreign oil with Saudia Arabia 4th supplying only about 7% of our oil. The USA has more oil then the middle east in the form of shale and coal. Its just more expensive and there is enviromental problems to produce it at the present time. Oil is a commodity demand will drive the prices up for everyone, India included.

so what's the point

Then why not cut our defense budget and close our Pacific bases??
U.S. can't it is controlled by corporations not by democracy

 

[average american]

I dont agree that the USA lost either the Korean War or the Vietnam War.....I would not even agree that we lost them if you called them battles in the war with communism. But there is no question that the USA along with the west won the war against communism......We are cutting defense spending, curtailing the planned production of F22 and F35, tanks and ships, because there is no USSR and no other credible threat on the horizion. But the best defense against war is to be prepared for war....

Let me suggest you take the site below and remember the quality of the US military equipment, F22 F35 12 aircract carriers, MI tanks, Drones and see if you can even pick a combinaton of countries that could defeat the US military or US Airpower or sea power.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I dont agree that the USA lost either the Korean War or the Vietnam War.....I would not even agree that we lost them if you called them battles in the war with communism. But there is no question that the USA along with the west won the war against communism......We are cutting defense spending, curtailing the planned production of F22 and F35, tanks and ships, because there is no USSR and no other credible theat on the horizion. But the best defense against war is to be prepared for war....

Shanghai Corporation is growing and expanding into a military block that can dwarf NATO.
War against Communist Russia was won but There are still still 1.5 billion communist Chinese
that are wining in an economic sense for now against the West.

 

[average american]

It takes 1.5 billion Chinese to produce half as much GDP as 300 million americans,, or another way of looking at it 300 million americans can produce as much GDP as 3 billion Chinese or six billion Indians.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

It takes 1.5 billion Chinese to produce half as much GDP as 300 million americans,, or another way of looking at it 300 million americans can produce as much GDP as 3 billion Chinese or six billion Indians.

Your facts are correct but the difference is in the last 12 years US has had zero to negative
growth while China had 10% + growth and India about 8%. US spending is approaching
80% of GDP where China and India have gains in their dollar reserves (which they are
buying gold with).

 

[average american]

Your facts are correct but the difference is in the last 12 years US has had zero to negative
growth while China had 10% + growth and India about 8%. US spending is approaching
80% of GDP where China and India have gains in their dollar reserves (which they are
buying gold with).

Which kind of growth would you prefer. 2 percent of 50,000 or 1000 dollars or 8 percent of 1300 or 100 dollars a year.

 

[s002wjh]

Your facts are correct but the difference is in the last 12 years US has had zero to negative
growth while China had 10% + growth and India about 8%. US spending is approaching
80% of GDP where China and India have gains in their dollar reserves (which they are
buying gold with).

china still got quite abit catching up to do, economy and military, especially the military.

 

[average american]

USA per year

2001
36,049.56

2002
36,935.37

2003
38,309.75

2004
40,385.76

2005
42,612.30

2006
44,732.02

2007
46,448.80

2008
46,883.36

2009
45,332.59

2010
46,843.66

2011
48,372.00
Is that a 0 or negative growth rate?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

china still got quite abit catching up to do, economy and military, especially the military.

They are focusing more on asymetric warfare so they don't have to spend like US.

e.g. Anti satellite test,DF-21A etc...

 

[s002wjh]

They are focusing more on asymetric warfare so they don't have to spend like US.

e.g. Anti satellite test,DF-21A etc...

true, but all those are anti-access weapon, can delay advancement of CVBG, but not enough to stop it. they don't have a blue water navy, thus put themself in a defensive position.

 

[average american]

Asymetric warfare against some one nice like the USA, but if some one does not play the game,, or gets tired of they can just kill everyone.
Highway of death - YouTube

By the way we are not sorry.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Asymetric warfare against some one nice like the USA, but if some one does not play the game,, or gets tired of they can just kill everyone.
Highway of death - YouTube

By the way we are not sorry.

They have already proven that they have a dedicated cyberwarfare cadre. There is a
lot more to asymetric warfare then weapons. They have also threatened the nuclear
option with US debt holdings.

 

[trackwhack]

@ average american, you seem certain that american pre-eminence will be preserved this coming 100 years. From your introduction I understand that you have seen a few years already and hence your conviction has more to do with American pre-eminence not being overcome within your lifespan. However, I am certain you will see the day that american pre-eminence is challenged by China. And if you do hang around for 40 years, it will be a thing of the past.

 

[average american]

They have already proven that they have a dedicated cyberwarfare cadre. There is a
lot more to asymetric warfare then weapons. They have also threatened the nuclear
option with US debt holdings.

If I am not mistaken Obama can take China off the internet, notice this press release dated 2009..... Infosecurity - US cyberwarfare unit now official. We have already attacked Irans nuclear facilies, used it against terrorist in Afganstan and Pakistan, Libya
If you get a text message about a urgent conference for terrorist (dont go) those guys are really stupid. As far as debt I kind of doubt China is going to cut off their nose to spite their face, but if they want money we can print up all they want. I dont think they are going to be able to forclose.

You do realize in the real world both China and India are ranked at a level per counrty of about 60 in their technology level.......Technology index statistics - countries compared - NationMaster I wouldnt panic just yet.

 

[no smoking]

If I am not mistaken Obama can take China off the internet, notice this press release dated 2009..... Infosecurity - US cyberwarfare unit now official. We have already attacked Irans nuclear facilies, used it against terrorist in Afganstan and Pakistan, Libya
If you get a text message about a urgent conference for terrorist (dont go) those guys are really stupid.

Well, you got wrong here: Chinese key government departments, especially defence & security related, use their own computer systems which was develped by themselves from the root. So, even you can send your top american hacker into these departments, they cannot do anything without months trainning.

As far as debt I kind of doubt China is going to cut off their nose to spite their face, but if they want money we can print up all they want. I dont think they are going to be able to forclose.

Wrong again, Chinese won't sell these debts because they already spent them for those huge resources contracts. So, when you start your money printing machine, those US dollars will soon rush back into american banks as a debt pay back after those developing countries recieve US dollars from China based on the fixed US dollar price. And finally these waste papers will end up in average americans' hand.

You do realize in the real world both China and India are ranked at a level per counrty of about 60 in their technology level.......Technology index statistics - countries compared - NationMaster I wouldnt panic just yet.

Finally, you got something right!

 

[ice berg]

If I am not mistaken Obama can take China off the internet, notice this press release dated 2009..... Infosecurity - US cyberwarfare unit now official. We have already attacked Irans nuclear facilies, used it against terrorist in Afganstan and Pakistan, Libya
If you get a text message about a urgent conference for terrorist (dont go) those guys are really stupid. As far as debt I kind of doubt China is going to cut off their nose to spite their face, but if they want money we can print up all they want. I dont think they are going to be able to forclose.

You do realize in the real world both China and India are ranked at a level per counrty of about 60 in their technology level.......Technology index statistics - countries compared - NationMaster I wouldnt panic just yet.

You do realize it is based on Global Competitiveness Report 2004-2005 right?
It was based on companies spending on R&D, the creativity of its scientific community, personal computer and internet penetration rates.
You are judging the current standard based on some 7-8 years old report?
You truelly are an average american.:cool2:

 

[Zebra]

you mean raise from current 50%. US/china might not see eye to eye on certain policy but we are stuck with each other due to our economic tie/trade etc. this didn't happen during USSR era. the fact is the economy tie are so important, this will make any potential conflict, severe negative impact MUCH less likely to happen from both side. both side has to worry about other issue that can be affect

That 50% of US Navy, named 'the Pacific Fleet' in general, keep an eye on more than half the earth's surface.

Now add 10% more, keep them on China centric only. Make a new base in Darwin and keep the fleet on rotation in the region only.

As you said- the trade and business, it is true, US and USSR never did that trade with each other.

But then we are talking about 'Cold' war only. The chain of actions, it's reactions and arm race.

For example,
* The Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
* A string of pearls strategy.

Just to counter these, US will play with different cards, that is reaction.

 

[Zebra]

You must tell what is this unsolved problems that can drags them to the cold war!

1) Taiwan. US's weapons sell to Taiwan is a big unsolved issue.
2) Stealing trade secrets. Unauthorized copying of US weapon designs.
3) Human rights violations in China.
4) South China Sea issue.

Yes, business! That is far more important factor than war! It will impact your economy, your employment rate, your people's living standard and your chance to be next president!
Today and in near future, the major problems between China and USA are still all about economy. No one in right mind would think killing millions of Chinese or Americans could solve this kind of problems.

Dude, it is 'Cold War'.

The Cold War was so named as it never featured direct military action. (wiki)

BTW, any good solution for the four points I mentioned above, that China and US can accept.

So what? None Chinese see that is the sign of a cold war! Calm down, my friend, will you?

***(Zhu Feng is a professor in the School of International Studies and the deputy director of the Center for International and Strategic Studies at Beijing University.)

No One Wants a Clash......
No One Wants a Cold War Between the U.S. and China - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com

***'New cold war may break out between US, China'........
Aug 24, 2012

Beijing: The Cold War mentality hasn't disappeared, a state-run Chinese daily said on Friday, and warned of "real worries that a new Cold War may break out between China and the US"......

full article: 'New cold war may break out between US, China' | Firstpost


***The new Cold War .......
The new Cold War - Salon.com

 

[average american]

@ average american, you seem certain that american pre-eminence will be preserved this coming 100 years. From your introduction I understand that you have seen a few years already and hence your conviction has more to do with American pre-eminence not being overcome within your lifespan. However, I am certain you will see the day that american pre-eminence is challenged by China. And if you do hang around for 40 years, it will be a thing of the past.

I hope China is a great and wonderful challenge, or even a powerful enemy. Would the USA be the worlds only superpower today if not for the USSR.....A country with no enemies is a country with no character. I dont worry about China winning because when they became communist and even lost that, they lost their soul. As far as the future is concerned the only thing I am certain about is that the future is uncertain and I would have it no other way. "As a matter of self-preservation, a man or a country needs good friends or ardent enemies, for the former instruct him and the latter take him to task."