US-Australia-India-Japan-SK: South Asia Pacific Treaty Organization?

[Srinivas_K]

Guys with the recent development of tensions between China-India,China-Japan and china -- vietnam and other south asian countries it is now clear that china is ready to bully the small nations and assert its influence in asia as the US power decline.
Is the alliance between US,India,Autralia,Japan and other nations in south east asia is possible if Yes what are the implications?

Opinions are welcome :thinking:

 

[The Messiah]

Australia can get ripped to pieces for all i care!

We should have alliance with vietnam,indonesia,malaysia,japan etc but not australia.

 

[Tshering22]

Guys with the recent development of tensions between China-India,China-Japan and china -- vietnam and other south asian countries it is now clear that china is ready to bully the small nations and assert its influence in asia as the US power decline.
Is the alliance between US,India,Autralia,Japan and other nations in south east asia is possible if Yes what are the implications?

Yeah F*** Australia and their loser military for all I care. Seriously skumar? You approve of such an alliance?

An opportunist, a pacifist, a racist and an indecisive Indian government? :emot15:

The only potent force in this alliance will be USN and IN. Even if Japanese bring out their old fierce fighter spirit, Australians are a big liability and a bunch of swollen-headed racists. And of this alliance, US is the MOST unpredictable. Remember how it went on us in Afghanistan summit just because Pakistan asked it to shut us away in Ankara?

You want an alliance with such a risk? In case a of a war, Indian military will be better of fighting 1 on 1 with China than have a bunch of such last-minute opportunists. Remember, we're an independent country and the last thing we need is a bunch of backstabbers. Our military with Russia's and Israel's material and arms support is more than enough to tackle regional threats. We don't need a bunch of racist losers to be a part of our "alliance". They can go and kiss the Dragon's feet all they want. They're the only two countries that have stood by us sincerely.

 

[gogbot]

This is pure fantasy never work on ground.

 

[pmaitra]

Dear readers, I would like to attract your attention to another related thread in which I posted this news: http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=15796&p=197880&viewfull=1#post197880

 

[Srinivas_K]

Thank you for your opinion and I feel there must be an alliance to confront chinese expanding influence. It may not be amilitary alliance but an alliance which should have common goals. I agree India is self sufficient to challenge china militarily when it comes to war it is correct strategy and technological edge not the numbers that count. India should support such alliance to thwart any ambitions of china either diplomatically or militarily as it is playing now with its friend pakistan.
And most importantly it should play the game carefully until we achieve our ecomomic and military might.

 

[ajtr]

agni -5 can take care of whole Aussie i think.India dont need any alliance.It is alone and it has to fight its battle alone as 26/11 perfidy of usa shown us.What india need is that true ICBM which can hit any corner of the earth from anywhere on earth.unless you threaten these so called western nations they take you for granted.

 

[Singh]

The big annual AUSMIN meeting, where Australia's defence and foreign ministers get together with their US counterparts, has just concluded in San Francisco. This year's talks marked the 60th anniversary of the Australia-US alliance, and the communiqué is rich birthday fare.

The document rewards close reading. Tightened cooperation on cyber security is being sold by both governments as the big deliverable, since the anticipated breakthroughs on US access or basing are still being negotiated. But that is just the icing. As with last year's communique, this cake has many layers. Here's a quick taste.



Reaffirmation of the alliance

Goes without saying, one might think. But the language this year is exceptionally strong: 'an anchor of stability', 'shared values', 'proud and deep relationship', a 'storied tradition' (nice turn of phrase), 'adapting and innovating to face the challenges of the 21st century'. Whatever the dire prognostications of one school of commentary, the alliance is stronger than ever – and this is at least as much what Australia wants as what America needs.

China

We all know that very much of this is about China. But the language on China is sensible and balanced. There is a renewal of messages about seeking partnership, emphasising common interests and the need for continuous communication between militaries to prevent misunderstanding and crisis – a widely-repeated refrain this year.

Connecting the spokes to include South Korea and India

The document is a resounding endorsement of the emerging web of security links between US allies and partners. The US-Australia-Japan trilateral dialogue is still touted as the most important of these. But there is newly-forthright support for what would seem to be four-way 'training and integration' among the US, Australia, Japan and South Korea to deal with dangers and provocations posed by North Korea.

And note the tantalising language on relations among Australia, the US and India: 'Identify areas of potential cooperation between the United States, Australia and India, including maritime security, disaster risk management and regional architecture'. Could this be the first hint of new trilateral process among the three key democratic players in the Indian Ocean? My chapter in this year's just-released Strategic Asia volume has some thoughts on this score.

Missile defence

As with the 2010 communique, the odd and cautious language is code for: 'It's a bit frustrating — the Australian defence establishment is really interested in connecting with the missile defence architecture of the US and its allies, but resistance within parts of the Labor Party remains a problem'.

South China Sea

These are firm messages. The two countries not only declare their national interest in freedom of navigation in these contested waters, they also say that they 'oppose the use of coercion or force to advance the claims of any party or interfere with legitimate economic activity'. Not 'condemn', 'reject' or 'deplore', but 'oppose'. Opposing is an active posture. It means that one day words might need to be translated into action.

AUSMIN puts icing on the alliance cake

I will eventually be merging all of this into India's Look/Act East Policy.

 

[debasree]

i have a big doubt on australia ,first of all they are not reliable ,second resist mentality,and 3rd they do not view india a alli

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Off Topic: can we start a discussion in this thread on the Asian-NATO, and rename this thread. i believe we will as time goes by open up to the idea and have some sort of a collaboration on that front.

the question that arises is, how will india then balance it with SCO where we seem to be pretty keen on joining.

 

[agentperry]

australia after its experiance in ww2, i dont think wil take any serious lead in future conflict. moreover just an american outpost and nothing else these people are easy going. as nothing bad will come to seggregated and isolated australia in say about 20 years, i dont expect any thing other than lip service from aussies

 

[Tomcat]

AP the aussies have real concerns in their part of the IO as the expansion of the Royal malaysian and Indonasian forces have many in cannbara sleepless nights and add to that the dragon dropping all pretense of its "peaceful rise" the assuies have been boosting their defenses For example the RAAF Has the following purchases in the pipeline

Up to 100 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II (CTOL variant) — are scheduled to be delivered from 2014. In a first stage not fewer than 72 aircraft will be acquired to equip three operational squadrons. The remaining aircraft will be acquired in conjunction with the withdrawal of the F/A-18F Super Hornets after 2020 to ensure no gap in Australia's overall air combat capability occurs. On 25 November 2009, Australia committed to placing a first order for 14 aircraft at a cost of A$3.2 billion with deliveries to begin in 2014

24 Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornets of which half will be wired to allow possible later conversion to the EA-18G Growler electronic warfare aircraft. The 24 F/A-18F aircraft will help avoid a gap in the Australian Air Force strike capability, between the retirement of the F-111 in 2010 and delivery of the F-35A. The F/A-18F Super Hornets will enter service from the end of 2010.

Eight Maritime patrol aircraft to replace Lockheed AP-3C Orions. Australia is participating in the development of the Boeing P-8 Poseidon to fill this role, but has not committed to purchase the aircraft.

Seven large HALE (high-altitude, long-endurance) UAVs to expand the surveillance of Australia's maritime approaches.

Six Boeing Project Wedgetail AEW&C aircraft, including another single aircraft optioned, entering service in 2011.

Five Airbus KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transports — to replace the dated Boeing 707s in aerial refuelling and strategic transport roles entering service in 2010.

10 light tactical fixed-wing aircraft to replace the DHC-4 Caribou aircraft

A fifth C-17 Globemaster airlifter is being sought instead of the earlier planned purchase of two additional C-130J Super Hercules that were intended to replace retiring C-130Hs.

Replacement aircraft for PC-9 training aircraft under Project AIR 5428, with a decision due between 2012–2015. Contenders include the Pilatus PC-21

the Aussies have also been pushing their Naval capabilites also

Procurement programme of the Royal Australian Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Phenom]

i have a big doubt on australia ,first of all they are not reliable ,second resist mentality,and 3rd they do not view india a alli

After the Second World war Australians dumped the weak Brits and Started relying heavily on the Americans, if things get bad for US, they may abandon US and start siding with China. Even today the Australians are trying to woo the Chinese, 20 years from now when US would be weaker and China stronger, I don't think the Aussies would side with the Americans.

I think we should prepare ourselves to fight China on our own. Chinese economy is 4 times our size as of today, I don't see any reason why Indian economy should be so far behind the Chinese in next 3 or 4 decades. Our attempt should be to make sure that we are able to match China economically by 2040 or 2050.

 

[agentperry]

AP the aussies have real concerns in their part of the IO as the expansion of the Royal malaysian and Indonasian forces have many in cannbara sleepless nights and add to that the dragon dropping all pretense of its "peaceful rise" the assuies have been boosting their defenses For example the RAAF Has the following purchases in the pipeline

Up to 100 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II (CTOL variant) — are scheduled to be delivered from 2014. In a first stage not fewer than 72 aircraft will be acquired to equip three operational squadrons. The remaining aircraft will be acquired in conjunction with the withdrawal of the F/A-18F Super Hornets after 2020 to ensure no gap in Australia's overall air combat capability occurs. On 25 November 2009, Australia committed to placing a first order for 14 aircraft at a cost of A$3.2 billion with deliveries to begin in 2014

24 Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornets of which half will be wired to allow possible later conversion to the EA-18G Growler electronic warfare aircraft. The 24 F/A-18F aircraft will help avoid a gap in the Australian Air Force strike capability, between the retirement of the F-111 in 2010 and delivery of the F-35A. The F/A-18F Super Hornets will enter service from the end of 2010.

Eight Maritime patrol aircraft to replace Lockheed AP-3C Orions. Australia is participating in the development of the Boeing P-8 Poseidon to fill this role, but has not committed to purchase the aircraft.

Seven large HALE (high-altitude, long-endurance) UAVs to expand the surveillance of Australia's maritime approaches.

Six Boeing Project Wedgetail AEW&C aircraft, including another single aircraft optioned, entering service in 2011.

Five Airbus KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transports — to replace the dated Boeing 707s in aerial refuelling and strategic transport roles entering service in 2010.

10 light tactical fixed-wing aircraft to replace the DHC-4 Caribou aircraft

A fifth C-17 Globemaster airlifter is being sought instead of the earlier planned purchase of two additional C-130J Super Hercules that were intended to replace retiring C-130Hs.

Replacement aircraft for PC-9 training aircraft under Project AIR 5428, with a decision due between 2012–2015. Contenders include the Pilatus PC-21

the Aussies have also been pushing their Naval capabilites also

Procurement programme of the Royal Australian Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

these concerns are regarding growth of indonesian and malaysian Power in IO, bringing in India may make India lose influence from malaysia and indonesia. malaysia have some conflict and dispute with china so by a logic that enemy of enemy is my friend, malaysia can be an ally in case of anti-china conflict.
moreover India should have independent policy for dealing both malaysia and australia because it seems that both wont interfere in case India or usa goes into conflict with china

 

[Tomcat]

your points are correct and i have a big blunder in analysing the big picture but as I said the dragon dropping all pretense of its "peaceful rise" might bind these Powers in the Lower Indian Ocean Region alsong with those in the Upper IO region like India in check mating the Dragon the way i see this move is a lose allince of India USA the ANZAC bloc, Japan along with malayasia and Indonasia in a 5+2 power arrangment

 

[Yusuf]

Thread name changed.

I have given the organization a name as well!! South Asia Pacific Treaty Organization: SAPTO!!

The ground work for this i think has been going on. The events unfolding over the last couple of years bears a testimony to that fact. The US asking India to take a more leadership role and be assertive, India expanding its footprint in South China Sea, Joint exercise with navies of Japan, SK, Singapore. A few statements about collaboration of strategic nature between various countries and off course China's belligerence is making sure quite a few countries converge to counter this threat.

[hl]This thread has been made a sticky. Any news, events or military exercises that happens between these countries can be posted here so that we have a single thread on all such news and events.[/hl]

 

[Dovah]

Like others I suspect Australia to be the weak link, unlike other nations mentioned Australia has no stake in this alliance other than its own paranoia over Chinese hegemony they might actually side with the Chinese when things get bad, Vietnam should be added.

 

[Tomcat]

there is another angel that India has created the IONS and even though the PRC had asked for Observer status in the synopsis the request was declined by the Guys at the MEA China wants to join Navy initiative on Indian Ocean, MEA says no need - Express India

 

[SpArK]

India will continue to push defence ties with Japan: Antony

 

[Zebra]

This South Asia Pacific Treaty Organization have something to do with The Shangri-La Dialogue- 2012?