US asks Pakistan to make full payment for F-16s, no subsidy

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Kshatriya87, May 3, 2016.

  1. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-F-16s-no-subsidy/articleshow/52085636.cms

    WASHINGTON: The Obama administration has asked Pakistan to "put forward" its "national funds" to buy F-16 fighter jets, because some top American Senators have put a hold on the use of US tax payers' money to subsidize Pakistan's purchase.

    "While Congress has approved the sale, key members have made clear that they object to using FMF (foreign military financing) to support it. Given Congressional objections, we have told the Pakistanis that they should put forward national funds for that purpose," US state department spokesman John Kirby told reporters at his daily news conference on Monday.

    Kirby, however, did not say when this decision was taken and when was it communicated to Pakistan.

    On February 11, the state department had informed the Congress about its determination to sell eight fighter jets to Pakistan at an estimated cost of USD 700 million. The move was opposed by the Indian government and it summoned the US ambassador to India, Richard Verma, to lodge its protest.

    Here in the US, top American lawmakers led by Senator Bob Corker, chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, put a hold on the sale arguing that it would not let the Obama administration use tax payers' money for the sale of the fighter jets to Pakistan. They also argued that Islamabad was not taking enough action against terrorist organisations, in particular against the Haqqani network, and that there continue to be terrorist safe havens in Pakistan.

    Several Indian-American organisations also reached out to lawmakers expressing their concern over such a sale, which they argued is nothing but rewarding a bad actor.

    Last week, top American lawmakers during a Congressional hearing openly told the Obama administration that they feared Pakistan would be using these F-16 fighter jets against India and not against terrorists.

    However, the special representatives for Afghanistan and Pakistan and the Pakistan government insisted that the F-16 is an important tool in the fight against terrorism and urged Congress to remove the hold. The lawmakers stood their ground and told the Obama administration that it will not till the time Pakistan takes tangible action against the Haqqani network.

    On the occasion of the fifth anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden, who was found in a safe hideout in Abbottabad on the outskirts of a Pakistan Army garrison town, the US publicly announced that it has asked Pakistan to use its national resources to buy F-16.
    The US expressed its disappointment over the Congressional hold. "Effective engagement with Pakistan, we believe, is critical to promoting the consolidation of democratic institutions and economic stability in supporting the government's counterterrorism activities and capabilities," Kirby said.
    "As a matter of long-standing principle, the Department of State opposes conditions on the release of appropriated foreign assistance funds. We believe that such conditions limit the president and the secretary's ability to conduct foreign policy in the best interest of the United States," Kirby said.
     
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  3. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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  4. 3deffect

    3deffect Regular Member

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    well pak news says talk in process and we will get it
     
  5. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    This is still not good enough, from India's frame of reference, regardless of who pays, Pakistan still gets the planes. I feel like we are being played for a fool here by making it appear as if US took heed of India's concerns, but in reality, they wanted to sell it to them for full price (sans subsidy) right from the beginning so they started out the negotiation with a subsidy to Pakistan for the planes, waited for India to voice its opposition publicly, then removed the subsidy and asked Pakistan to buy the planes, and now Pakistan will end up blaming India for the US decision since Indian opposition is a matter of public record now, even though we have achieved nothing from this to-and-fro flipflop. The US is the clear winner here. Their strategic calculations mandated that Pakistan should have the planes, so they will AND their financial interests required Pakistan to pay for it, so they will AND the US gets to blame Indian diplomatic lobbying as the reason for the same, so they will. All three objectives achieved. I hope the BJP doesn't come out with statements claiming victory for Indian diplomatic efforts; We just got punked.

    From our point of view, the only thing that will make the issue better for us (and worse for the Pakistan-US nexus) is : PNS Mehran Part 2

    I was about to paste this article, was looking for the 'US sale of F16 to Pakistan' thread. Maybe this can be moved to that thread so that we can keep track of all the developments regarding this F16 issue.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
  6. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Now, Question arises, can they pay for it? :biggrin2:
    From Dawn:
    US asks Pakistan to pay for F-16s
    ↑↑↑↑↑ From above link:
    The latest announcement practically kills the deal and Pakistan may find it difficult to buy the planes at two and a half times more than the agreed price.
    Poor pakis can't buy any stuff without subsidies. :rofl:
     
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  7. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    The US wants Pakistan to have these jets, so they will siphon the money to them one way or the other, they have multiple channels to do it, IMF is one of them. The IMF-Pakistan joint budget meeting is happening this week; All they have to do is sanction 700 million $ extra for Pakistan to buy polio drops, then they can divert the funds back to the US to buy the planes, like clockwork. Worst case scenario, if someone finds out, the US will claim that Pakistan misused the aid given for polio. It's like a sleight-of-hand magic trick being played in front of our eyes to confuse us. The joke is on us Bittu ji.
     
  8. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    And bhikaris still never hesitate from comparing themselves with Indians. :lol:
     
  9. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    For the US it is in their national interest to mollycoddle Pakistan or so they contend.

    Firstly, they want to prop up what is potential a failing state. If the Jihadis take over in the event Pakistan collapses, its nukes in terrorist hands would pose a deadly danger not only to the US but the world at large. So they need to strengthen Pakistan militarily and economically.

    Secondly, they need Pakistan as a go-between in the rocky Sino-US relationship.

    Thirdly, the US needs Pakistan to keep their supply routes open. One route crosses the Khyber Pass, enters Afghanistan at Torkham, and terminates at Kabul, supplying northern Afghanistan. This route is approximately 1,600 km long. The other passes through Balochistan Province, crosses the border at Chaman, and ends at Kandahar, in the south of Afghanistan.

    If these routes are closed by Pakistan, the US would be forced to use the Northern Distribution Network which is horrendously expensive.

    Fourthly, they need Pakistan to bring the Haqqanis and other Taliban factions on board for talks to solve the Afghan imbroglio.

    Fifthly, the US wants to keep Pakistan in its kitty by doling out freebies and subsidized gizmos, in order to thwart any future Russian invasion of Afghanistan like what the Soviets had done in the 80s. Pakistan is a buffer and their front-line state where Afghanistan is concerned.

    Thus, the US will be loathe to isolate Pakistan. We should expect them to pump in more aid to Pakistan in the coming days.

    Isn't this a typical case of the tail wagging the dog? It sure is!
     
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  10. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Agree with everything except the first point. The 'failing nuclear state needs to be helped to save humanity' is literally a chapter from the CIA handbook. I am sure the US has contingency plans for all sorts of nuclear disasters, there is no need for bolstering the entire nation's economy and conventional military just for safeguarding the nukes. In fact this narrative contradicts with all your other objective points which rightly assert that the US is propping up Pakistan for geopolitical reasons. This has nothing to do with 'nukes falling into wrong hands'. That's the 'white man's burden' doctrine of creating and propagating narratives which are based on false moral premises to serve as an excuse for backdoor intervention.
     
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  11. 3deffect

    3deffect Regular Member

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    drone-cartoon-28hengart-articleLarge.jpg none-bin-u-a-pakistan-assassination-rman13147_low.jpg

    some Cartoons explain better
     
  12. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree 100%. That's why I mentioned that this is the US contention (not mine!). The CIA's golden handbook says so and they follow it to the letter 'T'.

    Helping to bolster the Pakistani Army to prevent their nukes from falling into Jihadi hands is nothing but balderdash! Hasn't the Pak Army already morphed into a Jihadi Army itself?
     
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  13. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    They are shameless, that is their biggest asset, and they have embraced the ethos very well. Beggars can't be choosers, so they merely balance various offers to get the best out of every negotiation, and they have the gall to call us Baniyas. :pound:

    Right from the day the seed of 'idea of Pakistan' was planted in the minds of Jinnah, he knew that the new nation cannot become an economic superpower, so he had already thought of an alternate plan to make sure Pakistan fits into a security infrastructure that makes it imperative for other powers to defend it. I had read a transcript of Jinnah's conversation taken from some book (probably @asingh10 can find it from his archives), with the then 'Allies' club, ie US, UK, telling them the strategic importance of Pakistan's location (not natural resources, not human resources, but location alone). I'm paraphrasing but he basically said that if the west humored Pakistan, they could get access to strategic land like no other, because Pakistan was bordering 5 major nations of interest to the US (USSR, China, India, Iran, Afghanistan) as the Cold War was heating up.

    When Churchill saw that East Germany fell to USSR, he was petrified of the possibility of Undivided British India falling in the hands of Soviets, so he asked Indian leaders if they would allow Allied military bases in NWFP and Kashmir and sign a declaration of alliance with the west; Indians refused, then they asked the pissfool seculars if they would allow the same, and the pissfools willingly agreed, provided the west granted them a nation of their own, that is when Churchill and the British ambassador to India started drafting a plan to divide India.

    Basically, the story of creation of Pakistan itself begins with begging and treachery. That is the 'idea of Pakistan' and the only way to continue surviving as a nation to continue begging. That is why Tarek Fateh says "Humne toh mulk hi banaya hai tawayafon jaisa".
     
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  14. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/posts/1162654/
    :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
     
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  15. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    I have made many posts regarding weapon procurement by Pakis. The way Pakis procure their weapons is not casual and typical. Their way of procuring weapons means they will get it as soon as possible, ready made, operational. Directly or indirectly.

    Pakis have more than enough funds to get the 8 birds. It is a whitewash. Either Saudi, or Turkey, or China or US itself will fund it through multiple NGO's. Not a big deal.
     
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  16. adrenalin

    adrenalin Regular Member

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  17. adrenalin

    adrenalin Regular Member

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  18. 3deffect

    3deffect Regular Member

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  19. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Read the below letter about how frustrated and helpless is US due to double game of Pakis :lol:
    http://www.firstpost.com/world/f16-us-pakistan-sartaj-aziz-nawaz-sharif-2761826.html

    [​IMG]

    F-16 are not needed to fight Haqqani network, Pakis can use their available jets they are so proud of specially Chinese J's if they are serious about WOT.As a FACT Pakis can simply shun supporting terrorism and peace would prevail in the entire region.Basically Pakis wanna blackmail US to give F-16 and do NOTHING against Haqqani and play double game which ultimately ends up Pakis being the "victim" and 80,000+ Pakis dead since WOT.

    How come US is so blunt in telling Pakis on face to buy and not beg all the time? Is it recent Indian pressure? We would know.

    Here Pakis admitted that they actually want F-16 for "strategic balance" and not really to attack Haqqani.

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1256000
    http://www.dawn.com/news/1256000
     
  20. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Do the Pakis think the world is full of nuts? Who the dickens is going to believe that they need a 40 million dollar F-16 for neutralizing a 2 dollar terror yahoo?

    What about their much vaunted JF-17 'super Thunder' blk 3/4/5/6 which they claim are even better than the SU-30s??

    The simple fact is that they desperately need the F-16s as replacements as well as to try and maintain the balance of power with India where the air force is concerned.
     
  21. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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