Urdu not given ‘fair deal’ in India: Katju

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by nrj, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Aligarh: Urdu language has not been given a “fair deal” in the country in the post independence era, Press Council chairman Justice Markandey Katju has said.

    Justice Katju, addressing a gathering at Al-Barkat Educational Institutions’ campus here last night, said the present plight of Urdu stems from the “misconception and canard” spread by some sections that Urdu is a “foreign language”.

    Katju described Indian culture as “primarily a homogeneous product” of the synthesis of the “Sanskrit-Urdu” traditions.

    Flagging off a Urdu caravan from Aligarh, Katju said that this programme launched by admirers of the language, cutting across various religious groups, is aimed at “removing these misconceptions” in different parts of the country.

    “Those groups who charge the Indian Muslims of not being part of the national mainstream are themselves not part of the real mainstream of India and are ignorant of the cultural treasure house which is the hallmark of the ancient Vedic culture which manifests through Sanskrit,” he said.

    “This ancient culture of India based on scientific wisdom, is a liberal all-embracing culture which transcends all the barriers of religious divisiveness,” he said.

    Stressing that India is on the threshold of becoming an industrial super power, Katju said all those who are trying to divide the country in the name of religion, language and caste were major obstacles in modern India’s quest for glory.

    He said that India would only thrive if it “fully acknowledges its syncretic and pluralistic cultural roots”.

    PTI

    Urdu considered foreign language, not given ‘fair deal’ in India: Katju | Firstpost
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    That way Hindustani, which was a mixture of Hindi and Urdu was not given a fair chance.

    It would have been more acceptable since it was already the language of the Govt services, like the Defence forces, especially the Army.

    Hindustani (hĭndstän`ē), subdivision of the Indic group of the Indo-Iranian languages, which themselves form a subfamily of the Indo-European family of languages. Some authorities define Hindustani as the spoken form of Hindi and Urdu. Others prefer to call Hindi and Urdu written varieties of Hindustani. The term Hindustani can also be used to include some vernacular dialects of northern India. Hindi is the variety of Hindustani used by Hindus; it is also the official language of India. Written in the Devanagari alphabet employed for Sanskrit, Hindi is read from left to right and has a vocabulary that is strictly Indic. Urdu, on the other hand, is the form of Hindustani used by Muslims and is official in Pakistan; it is written in a modified form of the Arabic alphabet, is read from right to left, and has added a number of words borrowed from Arabic and Persian to its originally Indic vocabulary. Despite these differences, both Hindi and Urdu are written variants of the same Indic subdivision, Hindustani. The latter goes back to the Prakrits or vernacular dialects of classical Sanskrit (see Indo-Iranian) and has been greatly influenced by Sanskrit itself. The grammar of Hindustani is much simpler than that of the older Indic tongues, such as Sanskrit. For instance, the neuter gender, the dual number, and the old case endings for the noun have been discarded. The conjugation of the verb has also been greatly simplified. Instead of prepositions, Hindustani uses postpositions, or particles placed after words to make clear their grammatical function or relationship. Hindustani plays an important role in modern India as a lingua franca; the number of people who speak or understand Hindustani in India and Pakistan has been variously estimated, but it probably exceeds 400 million persons. Thus Hindustani ranks third in number of speakers, after Chinese and English, among the world's language communities.

    Hindustani language definition of Hindustani language in the Free Online Encyclopedia.
     
  4. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Sir, I have a question. There was a video on DFI of Field Marshall Sam Manekshaw speaking to a graduating class at IMA (I think) and he spoke English, IIRC.

    Do only higher ranks of IA speak English?
     
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  5. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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  6. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    I would not be on DFI if Indians did not speak English.

    My question to BG Ray had to do with his remark about Hindustani in IA. I did not know, for example, what was spoken in the barracks, officers' mess, during training, what language drill and ceremony commands are given in. Does language use in IA depend on geography or Regiment, and on.

    I have told this before. A coworker who is from India told me that if I go to India, it is better to speak English rather than Hindi, because Indians whose first language was other than Hindi would not bother to reply.

    Which is a moot point, because I won't be learning Hindi (or traveling to India) anytime soon anyway, and I would try to learn Gujarati before that.
     
  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    That was a very witty remark. Good comeback.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    In the Armed Forces officers speak English. They also speak Hindi while conversing amongst themselves, especially those whose first language is Hindi.

    However, the troops speak in Hindi or in class based Regiments converse amongst themselves in their own vernacular . It is not that they do not know English. These days quite a few men of the ranks know English.

    In the earlier days, it was also expected of officers to know and speak to the troops in the language of the troops of the Regiment and there was a test to be passed for which a one time allowance was given.

    In the Navy and the Air Force, even the troops speak English, maybe because the technical literature of the equipment, which were usually of foreign origin, are in English and so knowing English is a necessity.

    The medium of instructions [except for officers) is in Hindi in the Army. It used to be Hindustani earlier.
     
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  10. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    JBH22 may have misinterpreted my question, which was not to imply that few Indians know English.
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Well then you are not implying what you should have stated unambiguously. :D

    It is indeed true that few Indians know English, because the number of English speakers is indeed a small minority given the population 1.2 billion.
     
  12. GPM

    GPM Tihar Jail Banned

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    Urdu was done in by urdu speaker. Try to listen to Dilip Kumar. His persianised urdu sounds an alien language, rather bad persian.
     
  13. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    If you had formulated your question correctly in the first place you would get the correct answer.

    English language is widely spoken given that in school it is taught for Hindi in some regions people dont understand hence the regional language steps in.

    Equally you would come across Indians who cannot speak english so don't use DFI as a sample of english speakers in INDIA :)
     
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  14. GPM

    GPM Tihar Jail Banned

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    Whatever the mother toungue, every soldier knows or comes to know Hindi/ Hindustani [not much difference].

    In barracks and messes, Hindi and English are both spoken, often with a lot of intermixing of word. We speak English seamlessly mixing Hindi words and vice versa.

    Training, command and ceremonial words ARE in Hindi, whatever the regiment. War cries are regiment specific.

    If the first language is NOT Hindi, it does not automatically mean a command and comprehension of English. It would, generally, imply ignorance of English too.

    If you learn Gujarati, Hindi cannot be far behind. I can follow Gujarati movies, though it is not even my second language.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
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  15. GPM

    GPM Tihar Jail Banned

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    Every recruit, in general, knows some English.
     
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  16. chase

    chase Tihar Jail Banned

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    interesting....any specific reasons?
     
  17. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    There may be a future link to Gujarat in my extended family.
     
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  18. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Dont learn Gujarati, learn Hindi. Every Gujarati, from Kids to elderly, excepting remote villages, knows Hindi. Further, Gujarati is much like Hindi.

    Most importantly, Gujarat is possibly one of the place where the outsiders won't be frowned upon for his language.

    btw, most of the states in India, excepting the southern 4, hindi will do.
     
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  19. GPM

    GPM Tihar Jail Banned

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    Tamils are the only language fundies in India.
     
  20. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Does he understand the meaning of the word "homogenous" ?

    And why the eff is he generalizing Indian culture as a whole ? We south indians dont have this ganga-jamuni tehzeeb and all. Ours is firmly rooted in our faith and arts like Carnatic music, Bharathanatyam, Kathakali are much older than the "homogenous" product he seems to be in love with. This motormouth must stop putting his foot in his mouth and feel proud about it.
     
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  21. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    urdu dominates bollywood---what else do you want ??:rolleyes:
     
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