UPSC & CSAT are not for castaways, civil services must pick the best

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Ray, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    An interesting point of view.

    Indeed, the IAS and IFS requires analytical and a logical mind and cannot be the refuge of the last (or is it the first?) refuge of the uncompetitive, untalented, and unwanted castaways of other professions..
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
    Srinivas_K and jackprince like this.
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  3. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Re: UPSC & CSAT are not for castaways, civil services must pick the be

    Completely agree with this article. A big bulk of UPSC aspirants were low-IQ dimwits (PMT/AIEEE rejects) who shone in arts and humanities, that too, mostly from the Hindi belt. I think that explains how Bihar produces so many officers. They must be dimwits who do Hindi literature, and grasp some general knowledge.

    They think that UPSC is some kind of lottery, in which you can go in with just any easy-to-get degree, crack a mostly GK-weighted exam, and become an officer with vast amounts of discretionary and quasi-judicial powers, whose decisions affect the lives of the general population.

    CSAT's increased weightage will ensure clever people join the services. Those who chose life-sciences just because they suck at math, can't get away with using that as an excuse, because math remains part of most life-sciences branches as applied-math (eg: physical chemistry, bio-informatics, etc.)

    CSAT syllabus usually isn't above the level of high-school math, either. So those from the humanities are disqualified of that excuse right away. No matter what you earned your degree in, you had to pass 10th grade (and 10th grade Math) for that!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  4. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    Re: UPSC & CSAT are not for castaways, civil services must pick the be

    Medical Field needs way more sharp minds then any other branch, still Congress Government had increased caste based reservation in Post Graduation. Just clean this mess 1st then we can talk about IAS, IFS.
     
  5. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Re: UPSC & CSAT are not for castaways, civil services must pick the be

    Yes, the muck in every institution must be cleaned, But that doesn't mean that until that is cleaned, the muck be allowed in another field.

    One of my friend has been saying since this drama has started that it was not enough that he has been working under dimwit and self-centred idiots who had the only additional quality than him being able to memorise and then vomit some subjects in UPSC, now he would have to work under the illiterates too. How do these fellow hope to understand the various law, rules and regulation including court verdict etc., work in non-Hindi states without a workable knowledge in English? The fellow on Timenow debate representing the Dramawalas couldn't string together 2 sentences and he was supposed to be a student of English Litt.?? If that is the standard of education they receive in the Hindi-states, don't we need to look deep how they are being able to find so much places in UPSC at all? One of the Cen. Gov. officer I am regularly in contact with is from Chatisgarh and belongs to tribals - and he is fluent in English!

    Further, if the fight is for the vernaculars and the assumed evening of grounds for vernaculars, why there is not shouting for change from others like Bengalis, Marathis or Tamils, too? May be because they are more pragmatic and less of an opportunistic than those cowbelts?

    I so wish Modi doesn't kill the standard of UPSC exam. People of India, except those lackwits, still largely do have high regard for the IAS, lets not demean it by bowing to such an insignificant no. of idiots.
     
  6. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    Re: UPSC & CSAT are not for castaways, civil services must pick the be

    It should never be allowed in any institution. I was putting medical field ahead of others because people's lives are at line. I have seen many mishandling of patients because of the halfwit doctors. Same can be said for private institutions. One of my colleague got only 45% in +2 and his father sent him to China to do MBBS, he came back here and he paid 1.5 crores for Radiology and started his residency. This kind of discrepancy must be eliminated. We seriously need revolution in Medical field. Dr. Harshvardhan was absolutely right when he said MCI is one of the most corrupt organization.
     
  7. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: UPSC & CSAT are not for castaways, civil services must pick the be

    UPSC row: Why Hindi medium students want the CSAT paper gone

    by Pallavi Polanki Jul 26, 2014 First Post

    New Delhi: The agitation over the UPSC preliminary exam paper has turned into a full-blown political crisis for the Modi government with the UPSC aspirants stepping up their protests and opposition parties raising the issue in Parliament on Friday.
    The Minister of State in the Prime Minister's Office Jitendra Singh’s assurance that “there will be no discrimination on the basis of language” has failed to cut any ice with the protesting students.
    The pattern of the second compulsory exam paper (CSAT-II) in the UPSC preliminaries, they argue, puts students from Hindi medium and non-mathematical backgrounds at a disadvantage. They are demanding that it be scrapped.
    Previously, the UPSC preliminary test comprised a General Studies paper and an optional paper. In 2011, this pattern was replaced by the Civil Service Aptitude Test (CSAT) which included two compulsory papers: CSAT-I and CSAT-II.
    With the inclusion of questions on quantitative analysis, logical reasoning and English language comprehension in CSAT-II,
    the protesters say, representation of students from Hindi medium and social sciences backgrounds in UPSC has taken a big hit.
    Anand Kumar (name changed), an Indian Revenue Service (IRS) officer, who qualified for the UPSC last year feels CSAT has an ‘urban’ bias. “Students from Hindi medium backgrounds feel they are at a disadvantage because this paper favours students from urban areas. It has been designed along the lines of the Common Admissions Test (CAT) exam for the MBA programmes…The representation of students from the Hindi medium backgrounds in the civil services is going down because of CSAT. They are failing to clear the preliminary test,” says Kumar.
    But what specifically about CSAT-II is putting Hindi medium students at a disadvantage?

    One, the Hindi version of the question paper, believe it or not, is being generated using Google translator, which has naturally led to a lot of confusion. Two, there is a compulsory English comprehension component which automatically puts Hindi medium students at a disadvantage.
    “With CSAT, students from Hindi and regional language medium feel that those who are from English medium have a natural advantage. The question papers are set in English and they are translated to Hindi using Google translator. This is creating problems for students since the translations are not accurate. And so we are not able to interpret it in a proper way. This is the biggest contention. Second, there is a lot of focus on mathematics and aptitude in CSAT-II and this gives students from science backgrounds an undue advantage,” says Praveen, a UPSC aspirant.
    Having taken the test last year, Kumar knows first-hand the challenge CSAT poses for Hindi medium students, “The UPSC examination panel is doing an exact translation of English words to Hindi using Google translator. That does not make sense. When you read the whole sentence in Hindi, it simply does not read coherently. And student are confused about what is being asked. Someone from the examination panel should apply their mind and provide an accurate translation.”
    Even if the translation problem is fixed, say students, the English bias will remain because of the compulsory English comprehension component.
    “With the introduction of CSAT, a lot of the Hindi and non-English students are getting screened out. They are not even clearing the preliminaries. This year, the first person to make it to the UPSC ranking structure who wrote in a language other than English was Gurudatta Hegde from Karnataka who got the 25th rank. The first 24 ranks were taken by the English medium students. The Hindi medium students were in triple digits. That is why they are panicking,” says Sriram Srirangam, Director, Sriram’s IAS, an institute that trains civil services aspirants.
    In addition to this there is the analytical and quantitative component. This has put students from social sciences backgrounds at a massive disadvantage, says Srirangam.
    So has the introduction of CSAT actually changed the profile of students qualifying for the UPSC?
    “Absolutely. There are a large number of engineers and doctors who are clearing the exam now. Very few people from other backgrounds are qualifying. The percentage of engineers is very high. This is very discouraging for people from arts, history and literature backgrounds. This is not a good trend. The change is very much visible,” says Kumar, himself an engineer from IIT Bombay.
    UPSC’s decision this week to start issuing admit cards for the preliminary exam has raised fears of UPSC preliminaries going ahead without any change and heightened the panic among students. On Thursday, the protests took a violent turn when students clashed with the Police in North Delhi. The clashes continued on Friday when protestors attempting to march to Parliament were detained by the police.
    “Jitendra Singh promised us 10-15 days ago that he will look into the matter and that he would persuade the UPSC to postpone the exam till there was clarity on the pattern. But the UPSC seems to have taken a unilateral decision…The UPSC should have waited for recommendation of the government appointed committee. By issuing admit cards they have given a clear signal that the examination will take place on the scheduled date,” said Praveen, referring to the three-member Aravind Varma committee that was set up the UPA government to look into concerns raised by students.
    Singh’s clarification on Friday that issue of admit cards has been “misinterpreted” and that it doesn’t mean that it will “affect the working or decisions of the government” has failed to convince the protesting students.
    With the political parties now jumping into the fray and students showing no signs of relenting, the UPSC crisis seems to be far from over for the Modi government.
     
  8. nirranj

    nirranj Regular Member

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    Re: UPSC & CSAT are not for castaways, civil services must pick the be

    News - angry civil service aspirants want the roll back of CSAT in civil services prelims and collided with police, pelt stones and torch vehicles.

    So the hooligans who pelt stones, torch public properties are civil service aspirants!! India is doomed...

    What is civil services exam?

    These exams are part of the selection process followed by the UPSC (union public service commission) to select suitable candidates for civil services.

    What are civil services?

    Services associated with the governance of the nation like IAS, IPS, IFS, IRS etc falls under civil services. There are 24 services that are identified as civil services.

    What is CSAT?

    The civil services exam has three stage.
    1) prelims
    2) mains
    3) interview.

    The prelims has two papers.
    i) general studies
    ii) CSAT.
    CSAT - Civil services aptitude test.
    It covers comprehension, interpersonal skills, logical reasoning, analytical ability, decision making, problem solving, general memtal ability along with english language comprehension skills. Before CSAT, the pattern was general studies and a optional paper (like botany, geography, civil engineering etc. )

    The 8 questions under english comprehension part in the CSAT paper of prelims donot have negative marks for wrong answering.. they can be removed No objection. The CSAT Paper can be printed in all notified languages. No problem.

    The problem is when people ask for scrapping CSAT. the other 72 questions are necessary as they filter such "hooligans" from real service aspirants.. India needs even tough aptitude filters as these hooligans only intend to loot public money and donot see civil services as a option to serve the nation...

    A real aspirant like me (i work, earn, look after my family and read through the free time i get) will never have a chance to get pass through the prelims which has a optional paper. Majority who cleared prelims with optional papers study in the coaching centers!! They go to a school and read only the syllabus and the material provided by the centera and practice on repeated questions.. will botany as a optional paper radically change every year? Or are they going to ask about the geography of mars one year and that of venus the next year? But in CSAT, i a tax payer and those many who take up the responsibility of supporting their family, those who cannot afford the money to go to cities and study in coaching centers and those many professionals who are working and aspire to come into services to serve the nation will have a level playing field and the services will have the opportunity of selecting people with varied domain experiences and world knowledge rather than the coaching center products. Past two years i witnessed many practicing doctors, engineers, working professionals appearing in the mains.. the experience, knowledge, culture they bring in is enormous. India needs more responsible people rather than people good in mugging up..

    The best way forward is to increase the scrutiny in CSAT, eliminate the optional paper in Mains, introduce psychological tests and select post specific candidates.

    CSAT should not be scrapped.
     

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