Uprising in Libya

[kickok1975]

In this incident, Chinese government is doing a good job protecting her citzen while only a few hundred American was able to get out of the country.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Whats the fuss about sending a patrol boat?Everyone does that isn't it

 

[kickok1975]

Whats the fuss about sending a patrol boat?Everyone does that isn't it

Looks like American doesn't think so

 

[Iamanidiot]

Looks like American doesn't think so

Problem with being too much in the limelight.Iam sure even india sends a frigate as an escort for its ships.Being in the news for all the right and wrong reasons is pretty bad and Iam glad India is not in the news nor our actions

 

[kickok1975]

Problem with being too much in the limelight.Iam sure even india sends a frigate as an escort for its ships.Being in the news for all the right and wrong reasons is pretty bad and Iam glad India is not in the news nor our actions

Yeah, too bad China is always under spotlight of American media.

 

[lurker]

Whats the fuss about sending a patrol boat?Everyone does that isn't it

Who says there is a problem, aside from it being a pr stunt.

Kickok- China was not denied its charter flights, US was. How reprehensible

 

[joe81]

How absolute is Qaddafi's power? 4 key questions.

How absolute is his power?
Mr. Qaddafi rose to power largely through the ranks of the military, becoming a colonel. But after taking charge in a 1969 bloodless coup, he abolished all military ranks above his own.

Since then, he has maintained his rule by crushing any dissent. He has staffed most of the key government and military posts, as well as his personal security forces, with family and loyal members of his tribe. His recent speeches have made it clear that he calls the shots in the country.



Qaddafi speech: More Saddam Hussein than Mubarak

But his power is significantly weaker in the eastern part of the country, which was the center of power prior to Qaddafi's takeover and where protests began. Qaddafi made little effort to cultivate loyalty there, instead making Tripoli the new capital, shifting power to the west, and leaving the east to stagnate.

Eyewitness reports say that there now appears to be no government control in the East.

Libya was ruled as three autonomous states prior to Qaddafi's takeover, and he is credited with forcing the three entities into one state. Without Qaddafi at the helm, Libya could break apart again, some experts say.

What is his political philosophy?
Qaddafi's personal political philosophy of Islamic socialism is outlined in "The Green Book," a book he penned and published in the 1970s. He professes to support a direct democracy and has run Libya through a system of popular committees and conferences. The lack of other figureheads in Libya's "democracy" – a result of his pursuit of direct, rather than representative, democracy – has allowed him to further concentrate power.

He has professed a desire to end tribalism, but Reuters describes his way of handling Libya's tribes as "a system of divide and rule," pitting them against each other to prevent challenges to his power.

He has also attempted to paint himself as a champion of small nations, standing up against world powers. In his rambling speech Tuesday, he described Libya as a country that others could look up to, and said it would someday lead the world.

Has anything like this crackdown happened before?
Although this may be the most far-reaching crackdown in Qaddafi's 41-year rule, he has long crushed dissent in Libya – sometimes using brutal tactics. In the 1990s, Qaddafi suppressed a student uprising by deploying an Army brigade against them. Many were killed; many others were put in jail.

In 1996, prisoners in Abu Salim Prison (many of them imprisoned during the previously mentioned crackdown) launched an uprising that was harshly quashed – according to Human Rights Watch, 1,200 prisoners died. Groups opposing Qaddafi's regime have come together over the incident in the past. The first protests of the current uprising began on the anniversary of the 1996 massacre

Will he give in to international pressure?
Since he cracked down on protesters last week, Qaddafi has been under fire from the international community – as well as his own country's diplomats, who've deserted him en masse. He doesn't seem to be bending right now, but he has ceded to international pressure in the past.

In 1988, PanAm flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland, in an incident known as the Lockerbie Bombing. The US and Scotland charged two Libyan men in the attack, but Qaddafi denied Libyan involvement, earning the country United Nations sanctions and international pariah status. Qaddafi formally admitted responsibility in 2003 and said Libya would compensate the families of those who died in the incident – a promise fulfilled in 2008.

That same year, Qaddafi agreed to give up Libya's nuclear weapons program, a move that ended his isolation from the US. Former President George W. Bush formally ended the US trade embargo on Libya in 2004, allowing the country's economy – particularly the oil sector – to flourish.

 

[sandeepdg]

I read in the papers that only 10% of the 18000 Indians have made it out of Libya, mostly through the land route to Tunisia and Egypt. Rest are still waiting. Very bad situation for them, I suppose, stuck in a place that is falling apart with each passing day. Though there are reports that government has got the the permission from Libyan authorities for 3 flights daily out of Tripoli, Air India is gonna fly 3 flights daily out of Tripoli to Egypt, I think, for the next 10 days. That should help get quite many people out, since its gonna be a free-of-cost flight.

 

[badguy2000]

India struggles with Libya evacuation, concerns mount

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/03/02/idINIndia-55260220110302
India struggles with Libya evacuation, concerns mount

(Reuters) - India's government is facing criticism at home for failing to evacuate citizens swiftly out of Libya as China did, but it said such a comparison was unfair.

A quarter of about 18,000 Indians, most of them employed in the oil, construction and health sectors in Libya, have been brought out after the government chartered cruise ships, and through special flights of the state carrier Air India.

China, meanwhile, evacuated 32,000 of its citizens in an operation involving four heavy-lift IL-76 military aircraft, chartered aircraft and a navy frigate.

........

well,well.....I don't know why I should say ......

 

[Rage]

It's true. We could have done much better. For a Foreign Ministry our size, we do not seem to have performed up to par. The Government doesn't realize that the world is watching; and a billion and one other Indian citizens with it. Hopefully, we will learn from this, and perform much better in future.

 

[vijaytripoli]

There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of people packed into the terminal, mostly foreign workers.They are living on the floor, wrapped in dirty blankets, they've been there for days

Outside the terminal, there are thousands more people trying to inch their way into the terminal. There are policemen with sticks and whips keeping them in line, keeping them away from the terminal doors. There are fights breaking out. They're living in the trash from days of sitting outside the terminal, just waiting for an opportunity to get out of the country.

 

[pmaitra]

I would like to share with you all what the US had tried to do to rescue its citizens from Iran.


While such a rescue mission is very challenging for thousands of Indians stranded in different parts of Libya, with zero hostilities between India and pro and anti-Gaddafi Libyans, such approaches could have been used if India had the capabilities. Sadly, India does not.

Could we not use Mil-26 helicopters to ferry large number of Indians out from the interiors of Libya to neighbouring countries?

 

[Rage]

Could we not use Mil-26 helicopters to ferry large number of Indians out from the interiors of Libya to neighbouring countries?

The crux of course would be, how to get the helicopters there?

I don't think any of our Rajput class destroyers (or for that matter any destroyer) are configured to handle helicopters that large, in any significant number.

Besides, the Air Force operates Mi-26's, not the Navy. The Navy operates the smaller Dhruv, Westland Sea King and Sikorsky SH-3 Sea King, Ka-31 and Aérospatiale Alouette III Chetaks; and a range of other older, antiquated helicopters, none of which are suitable for the job, because they'll cost too much fuel and require too many trips to pick up a handful of evacuees.

 

[Rage]

Just came across this:

7000 Indians to be evacuated today

 

[pmaitra]

The crux of course would be, how to get the helicopters there?

I don't think any of our Rajput class destroyers (or for that matter any destroyer) are configured to handle helicopters that large, in any significant number.

Besides, the Air Force operates Mi-26's, not the Navy. The Navy operates the smaller Dhruv, Westland Sea King and Sikorsky SH-3 Sea King, Ka-31 and Aérospatiale Alouette III Chetaks; and a range of other older, antiquated helicopters, none of which are suitable for the job, because they'll cost too much fuel and require too many trips to pick up a handful of evacuees.

Perhaps we could use our aircraft carriers and launch the Mil-26s from there? On the other hand, maybe it is not a good idea as it could leave India without its carriers vulnerable. Maybe Mil-26 will have problems taking off in the high sea winds. I wonder if we have a helicopter pilot among us who could give us some expert opinion.

Is converting oil tankers into temporary helicopter carriers a feasible option?

 

[Rage]

Perhaps we could use our aircraft carriers and launch the Mil-26s from there? On the other hand, maybe it is not a good idea as it could leave India without its carriers vulnerable. Maybe Mil-26 will have problems taking off in the high sea winds. I wonder if we have a helicopter pilot among us who could give us some expert opinion.

Is converting oil tankers into temporary helicopter carriers a feasible option?

That could be a possibility. Flexing Mil-26's from aircraft carriers could be one option, although a prohibitively expensive one <I would guess>. I'm not sure about the status of the INS Viraat. The Libya crisis came at a bad time. In the sense, that the Navy was conducting extensive combat manoeuvres on the western front. The last I heard, the Viraat was patrolling the Arabian sea, along with several Delhi-class destroyers, Kilo submarines and Talwar-class frigates, as on Feb. 14. I'm not sure if that exercise, Tropex-11, has come to an end...

I've never heard of an oil tanker being converted for use as a helicopter carrier, I don't think it would have the logistics to be equipped for it.

 

[pmaitra]

I've never heard of an oil tanker being converted for use as a helicopter carrier, I don't think it would have the logistics to be equipped for it.

Here is what I read at another blog:

Hmmn, well the MAC ships were really to give Convoys ASW protection, yes some had Air Defence fighters but that was to counter the Condors, which were used to shadow Convoys and pass the info back to command who would then coordinate the U-boats.

These days the submarine threat is generally countered by ASW helicopters, together with Maritime Patrol Aircraft and warships with the sophisicated sonar and ASW torpedoes. So a modern MAC ship would indeed be a Helicopter carrier, many of the Royal Navys Fleet Auxilaries are designed to carry and operate ASW helicpters which can also act in the VERTREP role too. I know the USN has similar ships but the Helicopters are almost exclusively for VERTREP rather than ASW.

HMS Reliant was modified from the former MV Astrominer post Falkands to test the the viability of a commercial Helicopter carrier conversion using a USN developed steel deck over the the containers to act as landing pad and a hanger created using modifed containers to protect the aircraft and act as workshops, stores, ordanace and offices.

However the design of todays ships make the concept of a MAC ship somewhat more difficult. The tankers are now in the supertanker category and i suspect their design is not suitable to have a flight deck created over the tanker deck together with a hanger, without impact to the performace, fuelling operation and stability. The modern container ships too also have their problems as whilst their deck is nice and flat together with containers making the ideal structure for a hanger, so much space would be required for the air ops that the load carrying ability as a container ship would be seriously impaired as those containers under the flight deck and hanger would be unaccessible.

The modern car transporters are probably the best bet as the deck can be used for Helo ops whilst the RORO car deck can still be used for cargo.

G

Source: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?topic=22518.30

I just don't know if this can be done in a couple of weeks or needs extensive modification.

 

[Rage]

Thanks maitra,

Certainly seems possible. But, as I suspected, if that is what it takes <specially constructed, I'm guessing prefabricated, steel deck; modified containers to act as workshops, stores, ordnance...etc.> to equip with logistics; would require extensive construction, not a few weeks' job!

 

[The Messiah]

Leader Muammar Gaddafi on Wednesday threatened that Libya will replace western banks, oil firms and companies by others from China, India, Russia and Brazil.

He will certainly be anti-west as he was earlier but at that time only they had the money but i think this time he will follow the 'look east' policy.

 

[captonjohn]

He will certainly be anti-west as he was earlier but at that time only they had the money but i think this time he will follow the 'look east' policy.

He won't get second chance for that, just got the news that NATO and UN is thinking on military option if Gaddafi don't go easily. He has two choice that is either get out from lebiya or get ready to thrown out by public. If gaddafi don't leave then he'll get killed by someone most likely by public.