United States or Russia, which way is India going in the new decade?

United States or Russia which way is india going in the new decade?

  • Russia

    Votes: 13 21.3%
  • United States

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • Both

    Votes: 37 60.7%
  • None

    Votes: 9 14.8%

  • Total voters
    61

no smoking

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^^

Did I any where talk about the human rights? And for your first question read my previous posts to get the answer.
What I mean is that democracy is never a significant factor in USA's choice of partner. In this game of power, india is just a challenger as china to USA's throne. The only reason that USA treats india better is: india's industry doesn't demand huge energy and material yet. Once indian reform realy pushs its manufacturing segment, the problem will appear.

Unless USA is willing to share 50% of its control in oil or other raw material in the world, there is no way india can find its supplier in those american's countries peacefully because these countries are under the USA's influence. So, india has to compete for these countries' material contract at the cost of USA interest or make the friends with america's enemies. Either way won't be appreciated by USA.

The only way to avoid this is to keep india's manufacturing un-developed, which means making sure that india's energy demanding won't leap forward like china.

So, the question is: Is india willing to sacrifice itself in order to keep the friendshp with USA?
 

Yusuf

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I dont think US liking for India is linked to its energy consumption. Its a power game alright where it wants to make sure India is a counter to China. Suits India fine as well as China is a threat to Indias security. No matter what the intention of either party, it suits their national interests just fine.

India is not going to sacrifice anything. Indian manufacturing will keep going up. India is already.
World’s Top Oil Consuming Countries 2006

United States … 21 million barrels per day (up 18.6% from 1994)
China … 7 mbpd (up 118.8%)
Japan … 5.4 mbpd (down 6.9%)
India … 2.7 mbpd (up 92.9%)
Russia … 2.7 mbpd (down 18.2%)
Germany … 2.5 mbpd (down 13.8%)
Canada … 2.3 mbpd (up 21.1%)
South Korea … 2.2 mbpd (up 22.2%)
Brazil … 2.2 mbpd (up 57.1%)
Mexico … 2.1 mbpd (up 50%)


Read more at Suite101: Top Oil Consuming Countries: Nations Most Dependent On World’s Best Oil Producers http://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm/top_oil_consuming_countries#ixzz0eovdBztL
So India is already at four and since will surely get to 3. No big deal about it. In its own interest, India is moving rapidly towards a more nuclear oriented power sector for which it has cut out the most hyped deal of the decade.

Indo US relations are more broad based as already told by all other posters and very well put by Ritesh in particular.
 

johnee

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The new decade has just started. Its too early. Also, my feeling as the decade unravels the choice becomes self-explanatory. Infact, we may choose to go alone or align with other smaller countries or the situation may remain as it is today. This decade, I feel is going to be revolutionary for India just as the past decade was. India of 2000 and India of 2010 are so different. Our geopolitical situation, economy, leverage, society, politics have come a long way. We can expect the same from this decade. India is a rising sun and the time is just 4:30 in the morning. It will be a long time before India will shine like the raging sun of 12:00 noon. But it will surely come one day. Asia has always been the real centre of the world controlling the culture, economy and population of the world. Most of the humanity lives in Asia. So, its natural that Asia will come to the top. The scales had been reversed from 17th century, they will be restored back in this century. And inevitably, India will occupy its rightful place.

I guess I have gone overboard and off-topic. But couldnt resist it. :D
 

anoop_mig25

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india a non-aligned nation who has very close ties with the Soviet Union has long transformed its priorities and is now a major ally of the united states while still maintaining close ties with russia but in the new decade things are bound to change and lets analyse how close an ally is india of the united states and what does russia think about this closeness

1> can india -us relations stand the test of time ?
2> will russia go all -out to woo its close friend ?
3>how much will growth of china affect this relationship ?
4> what does this new decade hold for india ?
5> how much does US- pakistan relationship or US-China relationship or China-russia relationship affect indian thinking ?

lets bring out our points in respect to these above points
AV THANKS 4 STARTING THREAD BUT 1 THING I HATE IS INDO-RUSSIAN TRADE is very less compare to INDO-US or even IND0-CHINA.SORRY lately i have not seen figures but if they have changed then plz rectify it. and it would be good if russians starts more medical course in english as there lot of students which to have medical degre bit can go to west or afford in inda because in west it`s already costly and in india it is getting costly day to day
 

xebex

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See, I always wonder why cant we be a friend of both as we have done the same with Israel and Palestine. Russia-US fighting is coming to an end, and it seems they are getting along while China is pissing everybody off. Russia is an ally of India for a while, now US is befriending India knowing that Russia is India's top ally, so there shouldn't be any prob. Moreover, US and Russia are in much better position than ever. Now, for the next few decades, it would be a game between US and China, and we all know with whom we gonna side with lol.
 

gogbot

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AV THANKS 4 STARTING THREAD BUT 1 THING I HATE IS INDO-RUSSIAN TRADE is very less compare to INDO-US or even IND0-CHINA.SORRY lately i have not seen figures but if they have changed then plz rectify it. and it would be good if russians starts more medical course in english as there lot of students which to have medical degre bit can go to west or afford in inda because in west it`s already costly and in india it is getting costly day to day
We need a land line to Russia. To really boost trade.
Landlines through friendly nations.

Unfortunately Pakstan blocks, any land line to Russia.

If we somehow had connection to Afghanistan or Iran.

Russia can give Indian a lot of of Gas and oil pipe lines
No doubt a rail system would be established. for goods and people to go between India, Russia and the countries in between.

India and Russia would substantially increase their trade profile in central Asia as well.

IF only we could have that Land line
 

jbond197

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Well I can say India will be doing a balancing act for sometime. We need to use Chanakya niti to use all the oppurtunties that come our way and use it in a way that is favourable to us.

As of today and i think this decade we need Russia as a Defence supplier/partner and US as major Trade partner. Apart from these two European Union is a strong block we need to keep them in mind as well..
 

Rage

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We need a land line to Russia. To really boost trade.
Landlines through friendly nations.

Unfortunately Pakstan blocks, any land line to Russia.

If we somehow had connection to Afghanistan or Iran.

Russia can give Indian a lot of of Gas and oil pipe lines
No doubt a rail system would be established. for goods and people to go between India, Russia and the countries in between.

India and Russia would substantially increase their trade profile in central Asia as well.

IF only we could have that Land line
Any terrestrial oil linkages between Russia and India would be prohibitively expensive. Security considerations being merely one factor, the geographical distance it'll have to traverse and multinational transit fees it will entail is forbidding in and of itself.

One possibility, which exists: the Baku-Tikhuretsk oil pipeline which treks through Krasnodar, right upto Iran's Azerbaijan border adjacent to the Caspian coast, does not involve access to Iran. Iran's volatile, if not turbulent, relations with Azerbaijan are another factor for consideration.

It is far easier for us to secure our oil requirements via supertankers from Saudi Arabia and Iran via a well-traversed, far shorter, better protected international maritime route. In the medium run, looking eastward to countries near the Indonesian archipelago is a viable other alternative.
 
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JAISWAL

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We must engauge both-
And of by indian culture
"STRENGTH LIES IN DIVERSITY". As we can have best of both world.
 

AJSINGH

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remember USA will not hesitate to double cross India ,if it needs , that is the hallmark of US forgein policy ,plus the forgein policy changes with the change in US president , if USA really wants India as an ally ,it needs to stop appeasing Pakistan
 

ajtr

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India is not a player on grand chessboard its only a fence sitter as it was in the old great game.There are two kind of players in the great game ...
1. the powerful players as uas uk and ussr in old great game
2. the weaker players like pakistan japan south korea etc they are called pawns of the great grand chessboard by Brzezinski.

Now india lacks both the qualities .its not powerful to project its military muscle beyond its south asian region and it cant be the pawn coz it always maintain its independent thinking thats why west call india as sore point which always oppose rules set by west for the world like NAM NPT,CTBT,FMCT comes to picture where india always opposed super-powers diktats on discriminatory treaties.

New players in the game will be china russia usa and iran and turkey.india wont join western block coz of they suspect each others intentions and it wont join russian camp for the distrust of china.india will again be like NAM country like that of old cold war days but its weak alliance will be with russia as it was with ussr in old great game.If push comes to shove from west then india will coperate with china on mutual matters against west as we have seen in Copenhagen climate summit or on the WTO summit.
 

ajtr

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Ok people cross posting a page from india and geo strategy thread...This is what happening in new great game of pipe lines.Indo-usa nuke deal and usa pressure on india to drop from IPI pipeline project is all part of the new great game.the reason being the TAPI pipeline and IPI gives it serious competition.usa pressure to talk to pakistan on kashmir is also part of the game to bring reapproachment before TAPI can be constructed.unless india is willing to participate both TAPI and IPI are loss making venture coz the biggest market is india for any gas and india wont participate without gurantee and to get that gurantee from pakistan india has been made to talkto pakistan...soon we gonna see solution on kashmir...mark my words here.

A PIPELINE THROUGH A TROUBLED LAND: AFGHANISTAN,CANADA, AND THE NEW GREAT ENERGY GAME


Map 1. Proposed Central Asian Gas Pipelines


Map 2. Proposed Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) Gas Pipeline.

The Rival Pipeline: Iran-Pakistan-India Pipeline
Iran is negotiating with Pakistan and India for a pipeline (called IPI after the names of the three countries) to supply Iranian gas along a relatively secure route. With an estimated capital cost of $7.5 billion, IPI is similar in cost to the TAPI project, and is seen as a potential rival to TAPI. The IPI pipeline would move Iranian natural gas to neighbouring Pakistan and on to India. The route would avoid strife-torn Afghanistan altogether.



The IPI pipeline would be 2,670 kilometres long, with about 1,115 kilometres in Iran, 705 kilometres in Pakistan,and 850 kilometres in India, and would take four years to build. It would be constructed by the three nations separately, rather than by a single, co-operative venture along the lines that the TAPI partners propose.34 The purpose of this separate approach is reportedly to avoid raising the United States' ire and potential sanctions for co-operating with Iran.35
Russia's Gazprom has expressed willingness to help build the IPI line.36 Pakistan is considering inviting bids by oil and gas companies to build the section in its territory, and BP
has publicly expressed interest.37 In 2007, a senior State Department official, Steven Mann, stated that the United States is unequivocally against the deal. "The U.S. government supports multiple pipelines from the Caspian region but remains absolutely opposed to pipelines involving Iran." Washington fears the IPI pipeline deal would be a blow to its efforts to isolate Iran. The Bush administration has been trying to pressure both Pakistan and India to back off from the pipeline.38 This has resulted in the TAPI pipeline being viewed as a U.S.-backed initiative to aid in its isolation of Iran. Local leaders are sensitive to this accusation, given widespread popular aversion to the Bush administration. In response to a reporter's question this April, Pakistan's petroleum minister categorically denied that talks on TAPI were held in Islamabad under U.S. pressure to block the Iran-Pakistan-India deal.39
Until recently, India's participation in IPI was uncertain. In a significant breakthrough, oil ministers of India and Pakistan met on April 25, 2008, in Islamabad (just after the TAPI
meeting) to resolve a pricing squabble and clear the way for signing agreements.40 The President of Iran visited Islamabad and New Delhi the following week for talks on the pipeline. This breakthrough happened despite strong U.S. pressure on India and Pakistan to abandon the project and go for the line through Afghanistan.41
Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher admits the U.S. has a "fundamental strategic interest" in Afghanistan "as a conduit and hub for energy, ideas, people, trade, goods
from Central Asia and other places down to the Arabian Sea." He predicts the U.S. will be there for a long time.42 The U.S. strategic interest extends to its relationship with Pakistan and India. Both countries are regional powers, wooed by Russia and China. India has become a major power in Asia (not just South Asia). As Evan Feigenbaum, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, points out, the U.S. looks at "the role of India, China and Japan"¦ and their relations with each other in this larger Asian space."43 Geopolitically, the ties Pakistan and India have with other countries – and their pipeline links – are important to the U.S.

The Canadian Connection in Turkmenistan and the Region
Canada's energy sector is active in the region. In 2005,there were 35 Canadian energy companies in Kazakhstan and 4 in Turkmenistan.44 On February 12, 2008, former prime minister Jean Chrétien travelled to Turkmenistan to meet with President Berdimuhamedov, along with executives of Buried Hill Energy, an Omani-Canadian company with offices in Calgary. According to the Turkmen state news service, Mr. Chrétien said "the international community showed intense interest in Turkmenistan and its leader, whose policy of the progressive
reforms had won the country the recognition and high prestige worldwide."45 At that meeting, Roger Haines, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Buried Hill Energy, gave an update on his company's activities in Turkmenistan, including seismic work in the offshore Serdar gas field. Buried Hill Energy signed a production-sharing agreement with Turkmenistan
in late 2007 to explore and develop this field in the Turkmen sector of the Caspian Sea.46 Thermo Design, a Canadian engineering and manufacturing company, also has contracts in Turkmenistan. It built and maintains an LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) recovery plant for the state firm Turkmengas in eastern Turkmenistan.47 Canadian firms could be awarded construction contracts if the TAPI pipeline moves forward. Afghanistan is already Canada's largest recipient of foreign aid and Canadian troops have taken a disproportionately high level of casualties, so Canadian firms would be well positioned politically to win contracts from the Afghan government. But the deteriorating security situation makes it unlikely that any Canadian firm would want to have employees working in the region. Unless the risk of attacks is greatly diminished and the security position improves enough to allow construction and operation to proceed, it's unlikely that Canadian firms will benefit from the TAPI pipeline.

NATO Proposals
Energy has become an issue of strategic discussions at NATO, and the issue was reviewed at the 2008 NATO Summit in Bucharest. The Summit Declaration affirmed that NATO will support the protection of critical energy infrastructure, and stipulated that a progress report on energy security be prepared for the 2009 Summit.48 Two years earlier, the 2006 Summit Declaration avowed support for a coordinated effort to promote energy infrastructure security.49 At that Summit, held in Riga, Latvia, the U.S. made several proposals to commit NATO to energy security activities,50 but the Summit reached no decision. The Europeans were wary of tasks they might come to regret. However, these proposals could come up again,
and they merit close scrutiny. One proposal at the 2006 Summit called for NATO to guard pipelines and sea lanes. Would that apply to the Afghan pipeline? If so, NATO troops could be in Afghanistan for a very long time. Pipelines last until they're decommissioned – that may be 50 years or more. Would guarding sea lanes apply to the Persian Gulf? Would the Canadian Navy be part of a sea lane protection service? A second U.S. proposal called for energy security to be a NATO Article V commitment (an attack on one is an attack on all). That would make threats to energy security tantamount to an attack on a member country, and that, in turn, would require a response from all members.51 Does Canada wish to have this responsibility outside the North Atlantic area? At the 2007 E.U.-Canada Summit, Prime Minister Harper referred to energy security as requiring "unprecedented international cooperation"¦ protecting and maintaining the world's energy supply system."52 Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada (DFAIT) recognizes "the re-emergence of energy as a major foreign policy consideration," and has resurrected its Energy Secretariat "to analyse key energy security and related issues."53 That's despite severe budget cuts and twenty or so years with no energy secretariat. NATO proposals could have enormous consequences for Canada, especially if NATO's role is extended to include energy security worldwide.

Rivalry in Central Asia: The New Great Game
"Energy Security" is the current buzzword in Western capitals. No country talks about playing the New Great Game – what leaders talk about is achieving energy security. These two words have crept into the mission statements of governments and international agencies, including Canada, the United States and NATO. The New Great Game in Central Asia is a geopolitical game among the world's Great Powers for control of energy resources. The geopolitical game is openly analyzed in U.S. think tanks, such as Brookings Institution,54 Johns Hopkins
University's School of Advanced International Studies,55 and Heritage Foundation.56 It is well reported in the Asian press. It is hardly visible in Canada. The term Great Game dates back to the 19th century, when it was popularized by Rudyard Kipling in his novels of British India.57 At that time, the rivalry was between the British and Russian empires. The epicentre of conflict was Afghanistan, where the British fought and lost three wars. Throughout history, tribal loyalty in Afghanistan has remained paramount, making life difficult for invaders.
North of Afghanistan are the five countries of Central Asia: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Until 1991, they were part of the Soviet Union. They became independent when the Soviet Union broke up. These five "Stans" of Central Asia are sandwiched between the Caspian Sea to the west, Russia to the north, China to the east, and Iran and Afghanistan to the south. When the countries of Central Asia were within the Soviet Union, their oil and gas flowed only to the north through Soviet-controlled pipelines. After 1991, competing world powers began to explore ways to tap these enormous reserves and move them in other directions. Kazakhstan is by far the largest Central Asian country – about the same size as western Canada. It has the largest oil reserves in Central Asia. They are said to be three times those of the North Sea. One discovery alone – Kashagan in the Caspian Sea – may be the world's most important oil find in 40 years, since Alaska. According to the International Energy Agency, Turkmenistan has the world's fourth largest reserves of natural gas.
Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan border the Caspian Sea, as do three other countries – Iran, Azerbaijan and Russia. The Caspian Sea is the world's largest inland body of water; it is about 20 times the size of Lake Ontario. All littoral countries are looking for their share of the oil and gas riches under the Caspian Sea. That makes it a prime target for rivalry among competing world powers. Countries playing the New Great Game want energy to flow in directions under their control: north to Russia, west to Europe (bypassing Russia), east to China, south through Afghanistan. The players are U.S.A., China and Russia; regional powers such as Pakistan, India, Turkey and Iran; and NATO countries, and by extension Canada through its NATO membership. The Central Asian countries are far from the world's oceans and tankers, so they must rely on pipelines to get their oil and gas to market. Pipelines are fixed and inflexible. Without a pipeline, the oil and gas remain locked in the ground. The pipeline route is critical; the oil or gas can only go where the pipeline goes. Pipeline routes are important in the same way that railway lines were important in the 19th century. They connect trading partners and influence the regional balance of power. When a pipeline crosses more than one country, each country becomes a stakeholder. The countries are bonded physically, economically and diplomatically.Russia is expanding its imports of Turkmenistan's gas treasure.
Turkmenistan currently exports virtually all its gas via Kazakhstan to Russia. However, the pipeline infrastructure is aging, and the route was originally designed to supply other Soviet republics rather than European countries. In December 2007, ministers from the three countries signed an agreement to construct a new gas pipeline that will parallel the older one and augment the export system's capacity. President Putin of Russia and President Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan oversaw the signing and conferred by phone with President Berdimuhamedov of Turkmenistan. The pipeline is expected to come on line in 2010 and have an initial capacity of 20 BCM annually. The gas is destined for countries of the European Union.58 When this project was first announced in May 2007, during a visit by President Putin to Turkmenistan, U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman voiced concern about European dependence on Russian energy. He said the proposed pipeline was "not good for Europe."59 On May 27, 2008, President Berdimuhamedov visited the Dauletabad gas field to inaugurate a new gas compressor station that will increase the capacity of the pipeline connecting Turkmenistan with Kazakhstan and Russia.60 The ceremony took place one day before Richard Boucher's visit to Ashgabat mentioned above.
 

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