Understanding China

Discussion in 'China' started by redragon, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    I post this article from LA times at "South Asia, Asean & the Fareast" forum about 8 hours ago, till now, it has not been post out, so I have to post it here, since it can be showed immediatly here.
    I was a member of indiandefenceforum, when I joined that forum, at the beginning, I was thinking to make friend with Indian members, because the education and propaganda from mid 70's to 2003 I got from CCP tell me that Indian people are friendly to chinese. However, after reading the treads and posts by Indian members after a couple of months, I have to change my mind thoroughly, I started to argue with Indian members with facts from western countries, I admit sometimes my tone was very unfriendly, so I was banned permantly, not to long later, the indiandefenceforum disapeared, and I found all those old fellows like lethalforce, sata and many more showed up here, and they are still the same.
    So I post this article for them and Mr Vladimir, hopfully this article can help us build up some mutual understanding


    Understanding China -- latimes.com

    The West has gotten it wrong on China for decades -- even as it embraces a market economy, it has shunned Western-style freedoms. And its power is only growing.
    By Martin Jacques

    November 22, 2009
    E-mail Print Share Text Size

    The dynamics of President Obama's trip to China were markedly different from those evident on visits made by President Clinton and President George W. Bush. This time the Chinese made clear that they were unwilling even to discuss issues such as human rights or free speech. Why? The relationship between the countries has changed: America feels weak and China strong in their bilateral ties. This is not a temporary shift that will reverse itself once the U.S. has escaped from its mountain of debt. Rather, it is the expression of a deep and progressive shift in the balance of power between the two nations, one that is giving the Chinese -- though studiously cautious in their approach -- a rising sense of self-confidence.

    Nor should we be surprised by the Chinese response. They may have appeared more conciliatory on previous visits by American leaders, but that was largely decorative. The Chinese have a powerful sense of their identity and worth. They have never behaved toward the West in a supplicant manner, for reasons Westerners persistently fail to understand or grasp.

    Ever since the Nixon-Mao rapprochement, and through the various iterations of the Sino-American relationship over the subsequent almost four decades, there has been an overriding belief in the West that eventually China would become like us: that, for example, a market economy would lead to democratization and that a free media was inevitable. This hubristic outlook is deeply flawed, but it still prevails, albeit with small cracks of self-doubt starting to appear.

    The issue here is much deeper than Western-style democracy, a free media or human rights. China is simply not like the West and never will be. There has been an underlying assumption that the process of modernization would inevitably lead to Westernization; yet modernization is not just shaped by markets, competition and technology but by history and culture. And Chinese history and culture are very different from that of any Western nation-state.

    If we want to understand China, this must be our starting point.

    The West's failure to understand the Chinese has repeatedly undermined its ability to anticipate their behavior. Again and again, our predictions and beliefsabout China have proved wrong: that the Chinese Communist Party would fall after 1989, that the country would divide, that its economic growth could not be sustained, that its growth figures were greatly exaggerated, that China was not sincere about its offer of "one country two systems" at the time of the hand-over of Hong Kong from Britain -- and, of course, that it would steadily Westernize. We have a long track record of getting China wrong.

    The fundamental reason for our inability to accurately predict China's future is our failure to understand its past. Although China has described itself as a nation-state for the last century, it is in essence a civilization-state. The longest continually existing polity in the world, it dates to 221 BC and the victory of the Qin. Unlike Western nation-states, China's sense of identity comes from its long history as a civilization-state.

    Of course, there are many civilizations -- Western civilization is one example -- but China is the only civilization-state. It is defined by its extraordinarily long history and also its huge geographic and demographic scale and diversity. The implications are profound: Unity is its first priority, plurality the condition of its existence (which is why China could offer Hong Kong "one country two systems," a formula alien to a nation-state).

    The Chinese state enjoys a very different kind of relationship with society compared with the Western state. It enjoys much greater natural authority, legitimacy and respect, even though not a single vote is cast for the government. The reason is that the state is seen by the Chinese as the guardian, custodian and embodiment of their civilization. The duty of the state is to protect its unity. The legitimacy of the state therefore lies deep in Chinese history. This is utterly different from how the state is seen in Western societies.

    If we are to understand China, we must move beyond the compass of Western reality and experience and the body of concepts that has grown up to explain that history. We find this extremely difficult. For 200 years the West, first in the shape of Europe and then the United States, has dominated the world and has not been required to understand others or The Other. If need be it could always bully the latter into submission.

    The emergence of China as a global power marks the end of that era. We now have to deal with The Other -- in the form of China -- on increasingly equal terms.

    China, moreover, is possessed, like the West, with its own form of universalism. It long believed that it was "the land under heaven," the center of the world, superior to all other cultures. That sense of self, which has engendered a powerful self-confidence, has been persistently evident over the last 40 years, but with China's rise, it is becoming more apparent as the country's sense of achievement and restoration gains pace. Or to put it another way, when the presidents of China and the United States meet in Beijing in 2019, with the Chinese economy fast approaching the size of the American economy, we can be sure that the Chinese sense of hubris will be far stronger than in 2009.

    But long before that, we need to try and understand what China is and how it behaves. If we don't, then relations between China and the United States will never move beyond the polite and the formal -- and that will be a bad omen for the future relationship between the two countries.
     
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  3. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Mutual understanding from a Western perspective? I appreciate the attempt by posting someone elses article to explain it from an Amerikan perspective, but you forget I am not from Amerika or the West. I am coming from the position of looking at China from similar historical past based on failed communist idealogy. China is not going to turn into a free press democracy because that means the end of the CCP. If you want to understand China, all you have to do is understand what the CCP needs to survive, because that is their only goal. To keep control of the people they will continue to supress individual liberty for sacrfice to the state. In order to keep them happy, they will have to bring them necessities of modern living, jobs, and international importance. All this needed to maintain control means China is on a collision course with the rest of the world's powers. The breakneck economic growth required to quell unrest is eating up the worlds resources, destroying the environment, and exploiting third world countries. CCP doesn't have a care in the world about anything as long as they can hit their target numbers either legitamate or through manipulation. All this has turned China into the new pariah power where IP theft and corruption run rampant. China favours free trade, but certainly not fair trade. How a leading member of the WTO is allowed to get away with protectionism, illegal subsidy and rampant IP theft is the greatest failure of the organisation. Understanding how China behaves is as simple as understanding the levers of CCP power consolidation.

    Understanding the people of China is a bit more complicated. Without an actual voice, the only figurehead is the CCP. A select group of old-timers sets the policy, but they must be responsive to the citizenry or face the fall of the regime. All the historical aspects of China are true, the people come from a long and distinguished history. With this in mind, the people of China see themselves reclaiming the power of the Celestial Empire once again. This drives the CCP to threaten her neighbours like Taiwan, India and Vietnam. They have designs on territory held by each. Chinese nationalism is on the rise and unfortunately is xenophobic.

    Living under a state without religion has driven masses of people into underground Churches. Christianity is the fastest growing religion in China and has forced the CCP to officially recognise it. If we want to see where the people of China are spiritually, all you have to do is look into one of many underground churches. People are starved for faith with as many as 100 million turning to Christ. With the radicalisation of Islam, Han Chinese are much more apt to embrace the cross. The future of Chinese political movements will rest in the hands of this rapid growing minority.

    Understanding the future of China shouldn't be based on long term GDP calculations because they are meaningless. China is headed for a wall where the economy, demographics, environment and political system will be in shambles. I have lived through something similiar myself, and communism doesn't bring sustainable development which is vital for China's future. It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better but it will be interesting to see what the new China will be.
     
  4. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    I feel sorry for you, because right after you escaped from the control of one ideology, you got caught by another one, which impact your judgement.
    I guess it's hard to get a mutual ground between us on this matter, wait and see is the last solution now.
     
  5. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    You feel sorry for me that I have experienced several different political systems which have helped to form a perception based on reality? OK, and I feel sorry for you that you have experienced nothing but CCP party line.

    Problem is, instead of trying to explain your position, you either post somebody elses words who no one can talk to, or you run at the sign of disagreement. Go ahead, the door is open.
     
  6. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Great post, Vlad. That was great articulation. That post of yours must be made a must-read for anyone wanting/needing to deal with PRC. Without this understanding nations are bound to make mistakes while dealing with PRC.
     
  7. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    I have been living in north america for 7 years, before came to here, I am just like you.

    I have made my arguments, that is why I was banned in indiandefenceforum, and my post deleted here too, and anything I said was labeled brainwashed. that is the reason I only post western people's articles, because you guys see to believe in those only.
     
  8. Emperor

    Emperor Regular Member

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    That is a serious misconception which most of the fellow chinese get carried with.

    Indians only believe in facts,be it western/eastern .For sure they consider all propaganda talks as brainwashed.

    I had a small question in mind:

    Families who are currently living outside china have more than one child .If those people want to move back to china? How does the chinese employment laws and other benefit laws work?
     
  9. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Then why can't you see what is wrong with China? You have not learned from your experiences which is the greatest disappointment.

    I doubt you were banned for a well thought out argument. Everyone is respected here as long as they are respectful to others, regardless of ideology.

    Western articles come with a free press so they carry more weight than CCP propoganda. Since you live in China your own experiences will be regarded with more weight than CCP. Maybe you can start out by posting what you see with your own two eyes as good in China, and then something you don't like. A balanced approach is the best way to win credability.
     
  10. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is not misconception, it is true that Indian are deeply biased about China and Chinese. Ask Chinese member here, how many of them have been labled brainwashed and you will know.

    As far as i know,there wont be a problem at all.
    The child was born in foreign country, and would have got foreign nationality, so technically speaking, he/she is not Chinese.
     
  11. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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  12. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Here are my thoughts/Views about China, after interaction with the Chinese and reading up some of the history


    1. China only understands the language of power, there is no concept of morality/Dharma/Karma. While this might seem obvious, for a State, but I'm extending it to a people i.e the Chinese

    2. Chinese culture is based on deception. Judge them ONLY by their actions, and not their words (seems obvious, but it's true!)

    3. China is NOT Dharmic/Buddhist ! Buddhism was wiped off during the Tang Dynasty, materialism is the the only thing they follow

    4. China (and the Chinese) remain quite ethnocentric. This is not a civilization like USA which will spread culture and change people's/country's loyalties by promoting protestant Christianity. It is selfish and self-absorbed

    5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept), this is true for most East Asian societies though

    (Please refrain from "oh you're stereotyping, you're being racist" etc etc)
     
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  13. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    oh you're stereotyping, you're being racist :troll: :troll:
     
  14. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    no englishhh ! When they are caught with pants down overseas.

    I mean if one has to explain them in one line.
     
  15. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The Mandate of Heaven still applies to China. If they can't keep the people employed and hopeful then the CCP is finished. That is their first priority and they maintain it at all costs by artificial economic growth. Once you understand that the rest of their actions fall into place. Showboating the biggest that turns out not to be the best all feeds into forming pride of the nation which keeps people happy with CCP. Look at all the touting propaganda they feed themselves and the world... High Speed Train bust, fake space walk and the like.

    Trade and currency policy is all centred on one principle, employ the most people you can. China is one of the most unproductive per man hour nations in the world because they have to employ so many people in screw driver industries and shovel projects. The waste of their construction is legendary, they are digging part of the new canal with shovels instead of bulldozers. Every city block has dozens of custodians employed to clean it up brooms ready.

    China has no religion except the almighty dollar. Only thing changing is the sweep of Christianity as 3 million convert a year looking for some moral compass to follow they don't get from their parents, school or the CCP. They are very selfish stemming from the one-child policy. Only kid gets spoiled rotten while the parents don't parent and spend all their time working to buy the kid more crap.

    I don't find Chinese culture based on deception. You go up to any Chinese girl and she tells you to your face what she thinks about anything. The men are just like any capitalist trying to make a buck whether they are trying to swindle you or make a real business relationship. It all depends on intention just as any other in the world.

    Chinese in general are quite Xenophobic, if it isn't Han it isn't worth their time.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Chinese are a very interesting mix of people.

    Though it is propagated that in China there are 95% of the people who are Hans, it is not whole true.

    The real Hans are those who are North of the Yellow River.

    The remainder are 'barbarians' (as per the true Hans) who were assimilated. This assimilation was by conquest, intermarriage, subjugation and humiliation and systematic wiping out of the culture, traditions, customs, language as what you see is being done in Xinjiang and Tibet of today.

    The Chinese are an industrious lot and very sharp in their practice. They make fantastic businessmen. That is why much of the SE Asian economies are controlled by overseas Chinese. The fact that Mahatir could not force Islam in Malaysia, even though he brought in discrimination through the Bhumiputra ascendancy law is because the economy was totally controlled by the Chinese. In fact, Singapore broke away from Malaysia was because the Chinese felt that they were being sidelined!

    The Han culture is a proud culture and that is why there is a feeling that they treat other people rather short!

    Much of their mindset is a fallback of their Theory of Legalism.

    A summary of the same may be read here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy)
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
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  17. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Yup ! DNA studies show that the people South of the Han were mostly Vietnamese. But they got Hanized culturally and physically by rape and subjugation of their women
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Northern China and southern China are two approximate regions within China. The exact boundary between these two regions has never been precisely defined. Nevertheless, the self-perception of Chinese people, especially regional stereotypes, has often been dominated by these two concepts, given that regional differences in culture and language have historically fostered strong regional identities (鄉土, xiangtu, 'localism') of the Chinese people.

    Often used as the geographical dividing line between northern and southern China is the Huai River–Qinling Mountains line.

    Culturally, however, the division is more ambiguous. In the eastern provinces like Jiangsu and Anhui, the Yangtze River may instead be perceived as the north–south boundary instead of the Huai River, but this is a recent development.

    The Southern and Northern Dynasties showed such a high level of polarization between North and South that northerners and southerners referred to each other as barbarians; the Mongol Yuan Dynasty also made use of the concept: Yuan subjects were divided into four castes, with northern Han Chinese occupying the second-lowest caste and southern Han Chinese occupying the lowest one.

    For a large part of Chinese history, northern China was economically more advanced than southern China . The Jurchen and Mongol invasion caused a massive migration to southern China, and the Emperor shifted the Song Dynasty capital city from Kaifeng in northern China to Hangzhou, located on the south of the Yangtze river. The population of Shanghai increased from 12,000 households to over 250,000 inhabitants after Kaifeng was sacked by invading armies. This began a shift of political, economic and cultural power from northern China to southern China. The east coast of southern China remained a leading economic and cultural center of China until the Republic of China. Today, southern China remains economically more prosperous than northern China.

    During the Qing dynasty, regional differences and identification in China fostered the growth of regional stereotypes. Such stereotypes often appeared in historic chronicles and gazetteers and were based on geographic circumstances, historical and literary associations (e.g. people from Shandong, were considered upright and honest) and Chinese cosmology (as the south was associated with the fire element, Southerners were considered hot-tempered). These differences were reflected in Qing dynasty policies, such as the prohibition on local officials to serve their home areas, as well as conduct of personal and commercial relations. In 1730, Kangxi emperor made the observation in the Tingxun Geyan (庭訓格言):[2][3]

    The people of the North are strong; they must not copy the fancy diets of the Southerners, who are physically frail, live in a different environment, and have different stomachs and bowels.
    —Kangxi emperor, Tingxun Geyan (庭訓格言)

    During the Republican period, Lu Xun, a major Chinese writer, wrote:

    According to my observation, Northerners are sincere and honest; Southerners are skilled and quick-minded. These are their respective virtues. Yet sincerity and honesty lead to stupidity, whereas skillfulness and quick-mindedness lead to duplicity.
    —Lu Xun, Lu Xun Quanji (魯迅全集)


    There is an ambiguous area, the region around Nanyang, Henan, that lies in the gap where the Qinling has ended and the Huai River has not yet begun; in addition, central Anhui and Jiangsu lie south of the Huai River but north of the Yangtze, making their classification somewhat ambiguous as well. As such, the boundary between northern and southern China does not follow provincial boundaries; it cuts through Shaanxi, Henan, Anhui, and Jiangsu, and creates areas such as Hanzhong (Shaanxi), Xinyang (Henan), and Xuzhou (Jiangsu) that lie on an opposite half of China from the rest of their respective provinces. This may have been deliberate; the Mongol Yuan Dynasty and Han Chinese Ming Dynasty established many of these boundaries intentionally to discourage regionalist separatism.

    The Northeast (Manchuria) and Inner Mongolia, areas that are often thought of as being outside "China proper", are also conceived to belong to northern China according to the framework above. Xinjiang and Tibet[vague] are, however, not usually conceived of as being part of either north or south.
     
  19. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    On people who think that China is Dharmic etc etc

    Ancient China believed it was the "Center of Heaven", Chinese who believed in the supremacy of their Han culture were pissed off with this foreign religion

    Four Buddhist Persecutions in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Confucians won
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Han Chinese Racism in Tibet - and the Tibetan “Serfs Emancipation Day”, 28th March

    A closer examination of the impact Tibetans experienced due to their encounter with the Han Chinese.

    The Chinese government declared the 28th of March ‘Tibetan Serfs Emancipation Day’, an annual holiday when the Tibetans are to celebrate their ‘liberation from serfdom’ by the Han Chinese.

    When in 1950 the Chinese PLA invaded Tibet, they repeatedly told the Tibetans that the 'Han People’ had come to liberate and assist them.

    This begs a closer examination of the encounters and experiences by the Tibetans with these ‘Han People’, and what cause for celebration they might have on this day.

    Ever since ancient times the Han people would view ‘border people’, and in fact all other races, as barbarians and see them as beasts beneath the noble, superior Han race.
    These ‘border people’ were referred to with the added characters of dog for the people of the north, a reptile for the Min and Man people and a sheep for the Qiang, etc.
    The Tibetans were referred to in various terms, including ‘fan’ or ‘barbarians’; ‘t’u-fan’ or ‘agricultural barbarians’, and ‘hsi-fan’ or ‘western barbarians’; an attitude which primarily shaped their conduct and interactions with these other races.

    These racist attitudes harboured by the Han people is best expressed by Wang Fuzhi, a contemporary of the late Ming and early Qing dynasty, in the following missive:

    “And the Barbarians you may exterminate them and it will not be cruel, you may loot and plunder their lands and it won’t be unfair and unjust, you may deceive them and defraud them and it won’t be unrighteous; because all these notions only apply to man of verbal intercourse, and do not apply to different species.”

    Propaganda and Reality

    Exhibitions assembled by the CCP to commemorate the ‘Tibetan Serfs Emancipation Day’ depict all manner of torture instrument, photographs, documents, relics of bones and skulls, etc. to ‘prove the barbarity’ of the old Tibet.

    The CCP has made this part of a diplomatic offensive designed to quash any questioning of the legitimacy of the Han nation ‘owning’ Tibet.
    The Chinese, in newly found confidence over their economic success, are displaying supreme self assurance, and their bullying and cowering into compliance with their view of the world is taking on an ever more sinister and menacing degree, meted out to nations large and small.

    CCP propaganda paints a picture of a downtrodden Serfdom and an exploitative and cruel Aristocracy, who ruled over the ‘Serfs’ as a class of slaves in brutal oppression.

    In order to justify the ‘liberation’ of Tibet, the Chinese need to portray Tibetan society as “Hell on Earth” and turn it into a “Class Struggle”, which clearly is not borne out by historical facts, but is essential in the Marxist/Communist/CCP doctrine, where class is the nemesis of the egalitarian society and takes precedence over national identity.

    We shall revisit “Hell on Earth” again later.


    The type of social strata practised in Tibet in fact was a benign form of peasant / landowner relationship, with the landowners most often not much better off than the labourers themselves.

    Indeed, there was a kinship amongst all of the population which was unique to Tibet, and bonded landlord and peasant in a much deeper sense than just their common economic fate. Peasants often had their own plot of land they could cultivate, and paid the landowner in service of labour or produce as their circumstances afforded them.

    Tibet as a country was very poor but content, with very little difference between rich and poor.

    The workers were not bonded to the aristocrats and could move on to work for other landowners if they felt they could improve their lives by doing so.

    In “Tibet through dissident Chinese eyes”, Yiu Yung-chin and others express the sentiment that by contrast, China was a much more iniquitous society, where there were huge disparities of wealth, and widespread cruelty between the landowners and the peasants, with torture, beatings to death and rape of peasant tenants commonplace.

    Gompo Tashi Andrugtsang, one of the main leaders of the Tibetan rebellion, commented on this in his memoirs by stating:
    “Critics of the Tibetan agrarian and social system are apt to overlook some very relevant factors which countered its apparent faults. In spite of differences of status or material possessions, there was no great gulf between the rich and the poor. The landowner was more a patriarchal head of household than an exacting or oppressive master. The universal belief in the principles and teachings of Buddhism encouraged, on the one hand, generosity and desire to improve the lot of the less fortunate and, on the other, the absence of envy or resentment on the part of the
    poor.”

    Han Chinese propaganda repeats ad nauseum the allegation that in the old Tibet there were no schools, however there were several governmental efforts establishing public schools, many private schools were available, and the thousands of monasteries provided education to anyone, regardless of background or social status.

    In his “Memories of life in Lhasa under Chinese rule” Tubten Khétsun relates his experience with schooling in the 1940s, first at one of the many private schools and then college at the Drepung monastery.

    “This type of school suited the needs of the society at that time, and drew students from all social strata. .….. There was no set fee to be paid as a condition of attending school, and students paid different rates according to their means. …….the school gave exactly the same instruction to all students, regardless of the offerings they had made. ……. In Chinese Communist propaganda distributed both internally and externally, it is forcefully stated formerly only the Tibetan aristocracy had the opportunity of a formal education and that this was completely denied the ordinary people. Some foreigners have been misled by this without checking the facts for themselves and the allegation has been repeated in some foreign publications, and although the younger generation of Tibetans do not necessarily believe it, the fact that some foreigner has said so makes them doubtful, and if they lack determination to seek the truth, they do not bother to question those of us with direct experience of Tibetan society at that time about what it was really like.”

    Catriona Bass writes of education pre Chinese occupation in her book “Education in Tibet: policy and practice since 1950”:
    “Wealthy landowners or traders would make arrangements with religious or lay scholars to educate their sons and daughters in basic literacy and numeracy. Some families would gather a number of children together, sometimes educating the children of their servants, and, in the towns of Lhasa, Shigatse and Gyantse, small schools were established on this basis.”


    Born in 1935, the current, fourteenth Dalai Lama, then still a teenager, also made many reforms in the short time he had as head of state. He established a reform committee which was charged with overseeing wide ranging reforms from the Judiciary, Public Education, Communications, Transport and other aspects of Tibetan society which the Dalai Lama intended to modernize and reform.
    He quashed the practice of Debt Inheritance, breaking the chain of debt from one generation to the next and consequently exonerating the thus affected peasantry of any debt burden which may have encumbered them. He also declared an amnesty on all debt owed to the government, absolving all debtors of such obligations.

    He also established an Independent Judiciary among other reforms.

    On the agenda was a major land reform which would have seen the larger estates of the land owning families becoming wholly government owned and controlled again, and the land then allocated to the people who worked and cultivated it at the time, however the Chinese occupation terminated such efforts.

    Even Goldstein argues that a link between the peasantry and feudalism is not only untenable, but that the peasantry were not serfs in the context of Tibetan society, but were often free to exonerate their obligation to the landowner and buy their own plot of land, and or / move to other estates, and even have their own employees working for them.

    The many contemporary accounts from travellers, who had extensive first hand experience of Tibet as it was prior to the Chinese invasion, depict a country which was poor but content.

    They consistently lack any such absurd descriptions as the CCP now tries to misrepresent, and foist on the old Tibetan society in an attempt to divert from the illegality of their occupation of the country.

    What such travellers highlight though, is the gratuitous cruelty and barbarity the Chinese inflicted upon the Tibetans during times of military incursions and limited control they managed to exert at times over Tibet.

    Certainly not the sort of onerous ‘serfdom’ CCP tries to portray Tibetan society before their occupation.

    The notion of “Han” is in itself an invention which based its justification on the concept of a common people opposed to Manchu rule, and included all the people of very different cultural, linguistic and ethnic background and were earlier part of the Ming Dynasty.
    The revolutionaries needed more than the term ‘yellow race’ which had wide currency at the time, and which of course by its very nature included the Manchu people.

    This term ‘yellow race’ was used widely in the nineteenth century in the extensive process of self-victimisation and self pitying, namely the yellow race being ‘oppressed’ by the white race, in the course of blaming all ills of the late Manchu empire on these external influences.

    Zhang Bingling, who morphed from being a Reformist to a fervent Revolutionary, introduced the term ‘Hanzhong’, Han race, which based its foundation in common surnames carried by this ‘Han race’. Historian Sima Qian, who purportedly lived between 145 and 90 BC, provided a basis for this with his mythical account of Chinese history, which credits Huangdi, 黄帝, or Yellow Emperor as the founder of the Chinese nation, and bringing order and structured government to earth, plus inventing just about every aspect Chinese civilization.

    He was credited with having some 25 children, but here the numbers vary, and different accounts claim varying numbers of progenies, and sons.

    Zhang Bingling made the mythical figure of the Yellow Emperor, who supposedly lived between 2697 and 2597 BCE, the arch ancestor of all Han people, which was based on the common surnames from the descendants of Huangdi.

    It served the revolutionaries of the latter part of the fading Qing Empire to unite the disparate people under Manchu rule and foment the antagonism and common purpose required to overthrow the Qing rulers.

    Today the notion of Han is deeply rooted in the psyche of the 'Chinese' and provides them with a sense of one race, one purpose and one nation.
    Though genetically, nor culturally or ethnically, the Han race does not exist, but the term is used here for the purpose of identifying the people for whom the label is relevant in the context, and who now identify themselves to be of the 'Han race'.
     
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  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Today we have the obscene spectacle of diplomats from all over the world obediently trotting through an exhibition in Beijing expounding the ‘cruelty and heartlessness’ of the old Tibet, and passing ingratiating judgements to their gleeful hosts based on this odious concoction of the most sordid denigration and vilification.

    The South African Ambassador Ndumiso Ndima Ntshinga reportedly opined: ” Obviously, the quality of the life of Tibetans have changed dramatically since 1959. It is quite encouraging to see that the survivors of that horrible system of feudalism lived through”.

    The Chilean Ambassador Fernando Reyes Matta is quoted as having voiced his opinion “that it is essential to put together such documents, photographs and various references so that foreigners had the chance to learn more about the truth and the reality of Tibet.”

    • In the aftermath of the financial crisis, western countries have succumbed to prostrating themselves to the Han nation in ever more indecorous manners.

    In another development but patently related in its acquiescence to Chinese demands, the British Foreign Secretary David Miliband overturned a longstanding position of Britain to regard Tibet, implicitly, as an occupied country by not recognising China’s sovereignty over Tibet.

    Miliband slyly included this bombshell buried in a statement on the ministry’s website: "Like every other EU member state, and the United States, we regard Tibet as part of the People's Republic of China."
    China’s response was an intensified recalcitrant and harrying demeanour towards the Tibetan delegation which was to resume ‘negotiations’ with Chinese officials over Tibet, and blasted the exiled Tibetans and the Dalai Lama with ever more contemptible rhetoric.

    Tibet and the Qing Dynasty

    In 1638 – 39 the Great Fifth Dalai Lama accepted the Manchu Emperor’s wish to patronise the Tibetan religion and thus the two Sovereigns entered into the Chö-Yön relationship.
    It is noteworthy that this Agreement was entered into well before the Manchus had conquered the territories of the Han, which did not occur until 1644.
    Therefor this Agreement was solely between Tibet and the Manchus and did not include the Han in any way.
    This Agreement did, however, not preclude subsequent Manchu rulers and administrations from endeavouring to usurp the spirit of this Chö-Yön relationship, and seek to increase their power way beyond the agreed principles set out therein.

    This, for one, led in 1728 to the establishment of the office of the Amban, the Emperor’s envoy in Lhasa. The Manchu Emperors though, without exception, appointed Manchus to the post of Amban, thus emphasizing the fact that this relationship was unequivocally between the Manchu Emperor and the Tibetan Dalai Lama, and that the Han, which under the Manchu Empire made up the majority population, were not part of this relationship.
    With the issue of the “29 Point Ordinance for the Efficient Governance of Tibet“ in 1793 by the Qing Emperor Qianlong, who at the same time appointed Fu Kang’an as Amban, the Manchus sought to further increase their influence in Tibet.
    Thus, they insisted, among other points on the adoption of parts of the Manchu judicial system and punishments.

    Xiaoming Zhang, a CCP writer, confidently proclaims in his book ‘China’s Tibet’: “…….The basic principles formulated in the 29-Article Ordinance remained the standard for the administrative and Legal System in Tibet for more than the next hundred years.

    The Manchu presence in Tibet saw the introduction of such uniquely Han practises as “Ling Ch'ih”, known as ‘Death by a Thousand Cuts’, Boiling to death, the Cutting off of Limbs, the penetration of the Ear with an arrow, ripping asunder by horses or other means, lighting fires beneath suspended victims, etc. These were all alien forms of punishments to the Tibetans and instilled a deep loathing and abhorrence of the Manchu and Han presence among the population.

    Wherever the Qing forces managed exert any power over Tibetans, they meted out these peculiar forms of Chinese ‘justice and punishments’.
    Dr. Albert Shelton explicitly describes the “cooking of forty to fifty Tibetans” by the Han invaders, who witnessed their skeletons after the bodies were fed to the dogs.

    The Manchu forces also introduced their instruments of torture, such as Pillories (chinese. Mu Chia 木枷) and Finger Presses etc. which, along with all the other forms of Han and Manchu judicial practices and punishments, are now attributed to the Tibetans by CCP propaganda and their compliant writers in a concerted drive to denigrate and demonise the Tibetans.

    The Manchu and Han used these forms of torture, such as “ling ch’ih’ and forced the Tibetan populace to witness such acts of barbarism in an attempt to cower them into submission and as a powerful deterrent to resistance, wherever they managed to exert any influence.

    Luciano Petech relates events of such summary Manchu justice, which occurred around November 1728 as follows:
    “Na-p’od-pas and Lum-pa-nas were done to death by the slicing process (ling-ch’ih), the two churchmen were slowly strangled, the remaining thirteen were decapitated by three cuts of the sword.”
    He contends that this terrible scene, which the Tibetans were forced to witness, made a deep impression and traumatised the Tibetans for years thereafter.
    Before being lynched in these uniquely Chinese ways, the condemned men were first paraded naked on their way to the execution ground, the ‘Tent of Death’ to further humiliate and dehumanise them.

    Flora Shelton further relates accounts of such Han barbarities of “Ling ch’ih” by the notorious Zhao Erfeng, who managed to invade and occupy eastern Tibet between 1908 / 10. Erfeng used it with great indulgence to terrorise the Tibetan population there in this and other barbaric ways peculiar to the Han Chinese.

    An American missionary wrote the following in a foreign press journal in Shanghai on his long time observation in Eastern Tibet:
    “There is no method of torture known that is not practised in here on these Tibetans, slicing skinning, boiling, tearing asunder, and all… To sum up what China is doing here in Eastern Tibet, the main things are collecting taxes, robbing, oppressing, confiscating, and allowing her representatives to burn loot and steal.”

    In his book Journey to Lhasa and central Tibet‎ Sarat Chandra Das, writes:
    “The Chinese punishment of the cangue is now adopted throughout Tibet, the criminals wearing it being also heavily chained.”

    The Tibetans viewed these Han practises of judicial punishments as so barbaric, inhumane and completely alien to them, that once they had fully regained power over their own affairs they wasted no time, and under the guidance of the Great Thirteenth Dalai Lama decreed the Death Penalty as illegal, reformed the legal code and banned all forms of cruel corporal punishments such as mutilation.

    In fact, Tibet maintained a code of conduct which dates as far back as Songtsen Gampo in the 7th century, based on Buddhist principles and forbade the mistreatment of peasants, or any member of Tibetan society, and the administering of any form of corporal punishment was the sole preserve of the central government.

    Thus, Tibet was one of the very first countries in the world to outlaw Capital Punishment in 1898, a practise which is now extensively used in the CCP ruled Han nation, indiscriminately meted out to thugs, petty criminals, regime critics, Tibetans for ‘splittist activities’, and Falun Gong practitioners alike, so that some estimated Ten Thousand, (10,000) hapless people are exterminated in this way annually by the CCP.


    Hence, what many early writers actually described, and today the Han CCP in their propaganda drive of demonisation depict as Tibetan barbarism, were in fact Chinese forms of torture and cruelty, executed by, and imposed on the Tibetans, by the Chinese themselves.

    Today China runs, what they term Re-Education through Labour Camps, but in reality they are nothing more than slave labour camps, where the captives are imprisoned for mostly regime critical activities, such as exercising their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of expression or practising their religion, and there they are worked and mistreated to death in large numbers.
    Today, the CCP also runs a very lucrative Organ harvesting programme where kidneys, corneas, hearts and other organs are removed from executed convicts, but mostly from live victims in this 'Laogai' system, Falun Gong members, regime critics and Tibetan disappeared, and sold to paying recipients.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011

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