UN Security Council Reforms

[Known_Unknown]

after all , the real life quality is no decided by quantity of USD you have ,but the quantity of cars, house,service and other comodities you can afford.

Exactly. And PPP does not accurately represent that.

 

[Antimony]

well, Japanese industry base is not bad,but frankly speaking ,I don't think its Industry capacity can be bigger than China today.

if you really compare the prodcution of industry , you will find easily that almost every industry section in china has bigger production than that in Japan,including cars, steel, food,electricity.coal,household appliance,concrete....etc......some of them are evern 3-4 times more than that of Japan

For exmple, CHina's steel production =USa+jAPAN+EU+Russia
China's concrete production>USA+JAPN+EU+Russia+INdia+canada+Autralia
China''s ecelctricity production is 2 time more than that of Japan.
the undervalued RMB usually makes people underestimate the real economy power of CHina.

If you are talking about bulk industrial good maybe quantity is important. Then again, maybe not. What is the quality of your steel and concrete production w.r.t to the industrialized nations? So you produce twice as much electricity as Japan? How do you compare with Japan on the basis of megawatt avaialble per person?

Most of these nations (maybe except Russia) has one thing that you would probably give your right arm to achieve, brand value of companies. Even South Korea, with her LG, Samsung and Hyundai has come far.

While an American computer company who uses China based factories to manufacture, say a RAM, would easily shift over to an Indonesian or Taiwanese company if the costs looks correct and quality comparable, just the name of Sony would influence a buying decision in a consumer's mind. go ahead and value the RMB correctly, and watch your exports fall apart

 

[badguy2000]

Nominal GDP proves everything. PPP measurement of GDP maybe good for comparing the price of potatoes, or in your case, noodles, but as soon as you start moving up the value chain, PPP is bust. A laptop costs the same in China as it does in the States (excluding price distorting factors such as taxes, subsidies etc). Same applies for any engineering goods, high value chemicals etc. If you want your people to prosper, you cannot continue to pay them peanuts. As they prosper, they will demand higher wages, and once they do, the cost of manufacturing or designing things goes up. Simple logic.

Anecdotes regarding your feelings about HK don't prove anything. And in any case, HK is nowhere close to Japan or the US.

what you said indeed doesn't apply to CHina ,although it may apply to other developing countries. indeed..

:blum3:

most developing countries imported industry products while exporting non-industry products,so their industry product is very expensive while their service and non-industry products is cheap.

So the people in most developing country can not afford too much industry products,which directly make their life-style quite different from that in industrailized country----less cars, less household electric applaince.less modern communication.less chance of enjoy moder infrastructure..


But such case doesn't happen in China----the most strange developing country in the world.

one Hand ,China is the biggest industry-product manufacturer and its industry products is crazely cheap ;
on the other hand, the service in CHina also very cheap due to the cheap labour cost.

Chinese urban people can afford much more industry products than that in other developing countries---------the penentrating rate of household appliance can match industrialized country..

Furthermore, CHinese now owns one of best infrastructure system in the world. its HSR. expressway all may be even better than that of USA.

Generaly speaking, the life-style of people in CHinese industrialized belt( costal China) is quite like those moderate industrialized economies like S.korea, Taiwan, East Europe but quite different from those in most other developing countries.

 

[badguy2000]

If you are talking about bulk industrial good maybe quantity is important. Then again, maybe not. What is the quality of your steel and concrete production w.r.t to the industrialized nations? So you produce twice as much electricity as Japan? How do you compare with Japan on the basis of megawatt avaialble per person?

Most of these nations (maybe except Russia) has one thing that you would probably give your right arm to achieve, brand value of companies. Even South Korea, with her LG, Samsung and Hyundai has come far.

While an American computer company who uses China based factories to manufacture, say a RAM, would easily shift over to an Indonesian or Taiwanese company if the costs looks correct and quality comparable, just the name of Sony would influence a buying decision in a consumer's mind. go ahead and value the RMB correctly, and watch your exports fall apart

brand is not as important as you think.

brand is just a accumulation of reputation and experience.

Brand itself can not make product more useful.

quality of product is the king.

the one non-brand product has the same quality of brand products but has much lower price, then the brand product will disapper soon... just look at GM and CHinese cherry....what a big brand GM is ,but it live much harder than Cherry.

that is why Shanzai（山寨） products are so popular in China....same quality but lower price,then nobody will care "brand" so called.

 

[Known_Unknown]

Most of these nations (maybe except Russia) has one thing that you would probably give your right arm to achieve, brand value of companies. Even South Korea, with her LG, Samsung and Hyundai has come far.

Even Indian companies are far far head of their Chinese counterparts. Most large Chinese companies are government owned, so their fate is linked to the fate of the government. Private companies are the drivers of growth and efficiency in any large growing economy, and are as necessary as literacy for a developing country to grow fast and efficiently. The US is where it is today because of its businesses. India is following in the same path.

 

[Known_Unknown]

China Could Learn From India’s Slow and Quiet Rise

China Could Learn From India’s Slow and Quiet Rise
Yasheng Huang
The Financial Times, 27 January 2006


In an article published in 2003 called “Can India overtake China?” Tarun Khanna of Harvard Business School and I argued that India’s domestic corporate sector – strengthened by the country’s rule of law, its democratic processes and relatively healthy financial system – was a source of substantial competitive advantage over China. At that time, the notion that India might be more competitive than China was greeted with wide derision.

Two years later, India appears to have permanently broken out of its leisurely “Hindu rate of growth”– an annual gross domestic product increase of around 2 to 3 per cent – and its performance is beginning to approach the east Asian level. From April to June 2005, India’s GDP grew at 8.1 per cent, compared with 7.6 per cent in the same period the year before. More impressively, India is achieving this result with just half of China’s level of domestic investment in new factories and equipment, and only 10 per cent of China’s foreign direct investment. While China’s GDP growth in the last two years remained high, in 2003 and 2004 it was investing close to 50 per cent of its GDP in domestic plant and equipment – roughly equivalent to India’s entire GDP. That is higher than any other country, exceeding even China’s own exalted levels in the era of central planning. The evidence is as clear as ever: China’s growth stems from massive accumulation of resources, while India’s growth comes from increasing efficiency.

The microeconomic evidence also casts India in a better light. While India’s stock market has soared in recent years, the opposite has happened in China. In 2001, the Shanghai Stock Market index reached 2,200 points; by 2005, half the wealth wiped out. In April 2005, the Shanghai index stood at 1,135 points. This sharp deterioration occurred against a backdrop of GDP growth exceeding 9 per cent a year. It is difficult to find another country that has this strange combination of superb macroeconomic performance and dismal microeconomic performance. It is a matter of time before the two patterns converge.

Why, then, is India gaining strength? Economists and analysts have habitually derided India’s inability to attract FDI. This single-minded obsession with FDI is as strange as it is harmful. Academic studies have not produced convincing evidence that FDI is the best path to economic development compared with responsible economic policies, investment in education and sound legal and financial institutions. In fact, one can easily think of counter examples. Brazil was a darling of foreign investors in the 1960s but ultimately let them down. Japan, Korea and Taiwan received little FDI in the 1960s and 1970s but became among the world’s most successful economies.

An economic litmus test is not whether a country can attract a lot of FDI but whether it has a business environment that nurtures entrepreneurship, supports healthy competition and is relatively free of heavy handed political intervention. In this regard, India has done a better job than China. From India emerged a group of world-class companies ranging from Infosys in software, Ranbaxy in pharmaceuticals, Bajaj Auto in automobile components and Mahindra in car assembly. This did not happen by accident.

Although it has many flaws, India’s financial system did not discriminate against small private companies the way the Chinese financial system did. Infosys benefited from this system. It was founded by seven entrepreneurs with few political connections who nevertheless managed, without significant hard assets, to obtain capital from Indian banks and the stock *market in the early 1990s. It is unimaginable that a Chinese bank would lend to a Chinese equivalent of an Infosys.

With few exceptions, the world-class manufacturing facilities for which China is famous are products of FDI, not of indigenous Chinese companies. Yes, “Made in China” labels are still more ubiquitous than “Made in India” ones; but what is made in China is not necessarily made by China. Soon, “Made in India” will be synonymous with “Made by India” and Indians will not just get the wage benefits of globalisation but will also keep the profits – unlike so many cases in China.

Pessimism about India has often been proved wrong. Take, for example, the view that India lacks Chinese-level infrastructure and therefore cannot compete with China. This is another “China myth” – that the country grew thanks largely to its heavy investment in infrastructure. This is a fundamentally flawed reading of its growth story. In the 1980s, China had poor infrastructure but turned in a superb economic performance. China built its infrastructure after – rather than before – many years of economic growth and accumulation of financial resources. The “China miracle” happened not because it had glittering skyscrapers and modern highways but because bold economic liberalisation and institutional reforms – especially agricultural reforms in the early 1980s – created competition and nurtured private entrepreneurship.

For both China and India, there is a hidden downside in the obsession with building world-class infrastructure. As developing countries, if they invest more in infrastructure, they invest less in other things. Typically, basic education, especially in rural areas, falls victim to massive investment projects, which produce tangible and immediate results. China made a costly mistake in the 1990s: it created many world-class facilities, but badly under-invested in education. Chinese researchers reveal that a staggering percentage of rural children could not finish secondary education. India, meanwhile, has quietly but persistently improved its *educational provisions, especially in the rural areas. For sustainable *economic development, the quality and quantity of human capital will matter far more than those of physical capital. India seems to have the right policy priorities and if China does not invest in rural education soon, it may lose its true competitive edge over India – a well-educated and skilled work-force that drives manufacturing success.

Unless China embarks on bold institutional reforms, India may very well outperform it in the next 20 years. But, hopefully, the biggest beneficiary of the rise of India will be China itself. It will be forced to examine the imperfections of its own economic model and to abandon its sense of complacency acquired in the 1990s. China was light years ahead of India in economic liberalisation in the 1980s. Today it lags behind in critical aspects, such as reform that would permit more foreign investment and domestic private entry in the financial sector. The time to act is now.

The writer, associate professor of International Management at MIT Sloan School of Management, is author of Selling China (Cambridge University Press, 2003 and Chinese edition, 2005).

 

[Known_Unknown]

what you said indeed doesn't apply to CHina ,although it may apply to other developing countries. indeed..



most developing countries imported industry products while exporting non-industry products,so their industry product is very expensive while their service and non-industry products is cheap.

Those countries are further down the development ladder. What does "developing" mean to you? A country like Somalia and a country like China are both developing countries, but they're at different levels of development. In Somalia, they probably import everything, while in China, they only import high tech goods (I'm not talking about laptops here, but things like aircraft, high speed electronics, proprietary high value chemicals, pharmaceuticals etc). Well, China either imports them, or imports, then reverse engineers and copies them. That's not called R&D, but that's another issue.

So the people in most developing country can not afford too much industry products,which directly make their life-style quite different from that in industrailized country----less cars, less household electric applaince.less modern communication.


But such case doesn't happen in China----the most strange developing country in the world.

one Hand ,China is the biggest industry-product manufacturer and its industry products is crazely cheap ;
on the other hand, the service in CHina also very cheap due to the cheap labour cost.

You might think we're ignorant about life in China, but we've thankfully not been subjected to censorship by the CCP. Outside a few big cities, most of rural and semi-rural Chinese don't have washing machines, LCD TVs or home theatre systems. In the west, by comparison, such things are commonplace.

Chinese urban people can afford much more industry products than that in other developing countries---------the penentrating rate of household appliance can match industrialized country..

Furthermore, CHinese now owns one of best infrastructure system in the world. its HSR. expressway all may be even better than that of USA.

Some statistics please. Do you think I'm gonna believe that just because you say it? I can say quite the opposite without providing any proof either. Na na na nana....

 

[badguy2000]

Even Indian companies are far far head of their Chinese counterparts. Most large Chinese companies are government owned, so their fate is linked to the fate of the government. Private companies are the drivers of growth and efficiency in any large growing economy, and are as necessary as literacy for a developing country to grow fast and efficiently. The US is where it is today because of its businesses. India is following in the same path.

you really don't know much about modern CHina today.

1. if you have been to both CHina and india yourselve, you would find it very funny to compare India and CHina.

2.the operation of CHina's State-owned enterprises is not as poor as the traditional State-oweed enterprises you think.
they are the upgraded dinosaurs----huge but smart and efficient and perform muich better than most private dinosaurs like GM.
For example ,ICBC is world most profitble and biggest bank .

3. private enterprises is the main body of Chinese economy.

 

[badguy2000]

You might think we're ignorant about life in China, but we've thankfully not been subjected to censorship by the CCP. Outside a few big cities, most of rural and semi-rural Chinese don't have washing machines, LCD TVs or home theatre systems. In the west, by comparison, such things are commonplace.



Some statistics please. Do you think I'm gonna believe that just because you say it? I can say quite the opposite without providing any proof either. Na na na nana....

I have no obligation to provide you link. you should google it by yourself.

of course, if you can not read CHinese, you will in fact block yourself from sinic world can have to read the information digested by your "independent medias" like BBC and CNN-----which always tell you how glory western world is and how crappy non-western world is !


BTW. the penentrating rate of household electric appliance,except cars, indeed can match industrlialized economy....of course, such is limited in urban area. rural area is a different story.but 50% of 1.3 trillion CHinese in fact live in urban area,
If you still feel that the life-syle in Chinese urban area is like that in India, then it just prove how successful you are blocked from the real world!

if you really want to break the "block" and learn more non-western world by yourself,you should study other's language.

 

[Known_Unknown]

1. if you have been to both CHina and india yourselve, you would find it very funny to compare India and CHina.

2.the operation of CHina's State-owned enterprises is not as poor as the traditional State-oweed enterprises you think.
they are the upgraded dinosaurs----huge but smart and efficient and perform muich better than most private dinosaurs like GM.
.

Both unsubstantiated.

For example ,ICBC is world most profitble and biggest bank

Biggest and most profitable doesn't mean well-run. For corporations, things like P/E ratios, debt as a % of capitalisation, per employee productivity etc are used to judge how well run a large business is run. In comparison to any western private bank, ICBC or whatever will fall short on these benchmarks. So I suggest we stop these teenage arguments.

3. private enterprises is the main body of Chinese economy.

Correction. Foreign private enterprise is the backbone of the chinese economy. Most of the exporting done by China is not by chinese manufacturers, but by foreign manufacturers in china. You should read up on the "economic miracle" of your country....don't let a foreigner teach you.

 

[Known_Unknown]

I have no obligation to provide you link. you should google it by yourself.

LoL! First, you come waltzing here claiming that China is this and China is that, and when asked for proof, you tell us to google it ourselves! If you want to make an argument, you need to back it up, you know, you can't tell people to prove your arguments for you.

of course, if you can not read CHinese, you will in fact block yourself from sinic world can have to read the information digested by your "independent medias" like BBC and CNN-----which always tell you how glory western world is and how crappy non-western world is !

I'd rather read "independent" media like BBC than Chinese state controlled "free" media.

BTW. the penentrating rate of household electric appliance,except cars, indeed can match industrlialized economy....of course, such is limited in urban area. rural area is a different story.but 50% of 1.3 trillion CHinese in fact live in urban area,
If you still feel that the life-syle in Chinese urban area is like that in India, then it just prove how successful you are blocked from the real world!

if you really want to break the "block" and learn more non-western world by yourself,you should study other's language.

More CCP propaganda. No wonder you guys grow up and become loyal party followers.

 

[badguy2000]

Both unsubstantiated.



Biggest and most profitable doesn't mean well-run. For corporations, things like P/E ratios, debt as a % of capitalisation, per employee productivity etc are used to judge how well run a large business is run. In comparison to any western private bank, ICBC or whatever will fall short on these benchmarks. So I suggest we stop these teenage arguments.

yes. before bankrupy, Lehman had perfect P/E ratio.....bu how about now.

you seem to ignore how to balance profit and risk .

case is that Chinese dinosaurs live happiliy now while western dinosaurs are struggling for survive.

good theoriies is very pale if it is against reality.

In theory, Communism should be much bettern than capitalsim . but can you accept communism?

Correction. Foreign private enterprise is the backbone of the chinese economy. Most of the exporting done by China is not by chinese manufacturers, but by foreign manufacturers in china. You should read up on the "economic miracle" of your country....don't let a foreigner teach you.

1.80% of "foeign private enterprise" are nominally from Hongkong, Macao and Taiwan.
the fund from Western countries is just dipensable if measued by quantity.

2.at least ,30% of foeign direct investments are in fact "fake FDI" . they are in fact chinese domestic fund disguised as FDI.
chinese enterprises like doing so just for special tax holidays for FDI.Chinese local officers also keep blind to it ,just because the quantity of FDI can decide their promotion .

3.as a whold, CHina starts to invest more in foreign countries than foreign invests in China.

 

[badguy2000]

LoL! First, you come waltzing here claiming that China is this and China is that, and when asked for proof, you tell us to google it ourselves! If you want to make an argument, you need to back it up, you know, you can't tell people to prove your arguments for you.



I'd rather read "independent" media like BBC than Chinese state controlled "free" media.

the reality is that I can read both your "free" BBC and Chinese medias and have a comparision,but you still just have to read " free BBC" and keep blind to Chinese medias.


so ,who is more free,you or me?

More CCP propaganda. No wonder you guys grow up and become loyal party followers.

congratulation!.

BBC-style medias are suucceeful to turn you to be one of their loyal listeners.!

 

[badguy2000]

Colonel,

Badguy,

The Chinese media is what the CCP wants it to say.

Please read Pallavi Iyer's Smoke and Mirror to realise what the Chinese media is all about. She was teaching in Beijing Journalist College and the book is full of praise for China as also brings out some (very few actually!) errors of China. Control of the media is one error she feels.

well, in fact, many articles in Pallavi lyer's ""smoke and miiror" has be translated into Chinese by some warm-hearted chinese like me into CHinese and have bee read by lot of Chinese.....:blum3::2guns:

but obviously , I don't think that indian people like you can translated chinese article into english.....:blum3:

One cannot blame the Mainland Chinese for their mindset. It is honed by the theory of Legalism.

well, hiding news is not good. but keeping blind to news deliberately is not good, either.

While SARS broke out in China,the papers in USA always keep close report in headlines and TV news keep close report every hours,just as if Sars were happening in USA.


But when H1N1 Flu is broking out in USA, USA's media seems to become much less interests to report it and always keep the reports on flu in the corners of paper,just as if it were happening in CHina.

 

[Ray]

We are well aware how China hides bad news.

Nothing new.

It is the way a totalitarian regime keeps a grip over its people.

I may not know Chinese (but then Chinese is such a diverse language and there is nothing like a Chinese language since there are many, like Cantonese etc where the script is same, but the language is different) but I sure know what Comrade means i.e. Tongzhi.

Chinese languages:

* Gan Chinese [gan]
* Hakka Chinese [hak]
* Huizhou Chinese [czh]
* Jinyu Chinese [cjy]
* Literary Chinese [lzh]
* Mandarin Chinese [cmn]
* Min Bei Chinese [mnp]
* Min Dong Chinese [cdo]
* Min Nan Chinese [nan]
* Min Zhong Chinese [czo]
* Pu-Xian Chinese [cpx]
* Wu Chinese [wuu]
* Xiang Chinese [hsn]
* Yue Chinese [yue]

Major varieties of Chinese include:
Pŭtōnghuà (Mandarin) Mandarin (pŭtōnghuà/huáyŭ/guóyŭ)

Mandarin is spoken by possibly more people than any other language: over 1 billion. It is the main language of government, the media and education in China and Taiwan, and one of the four official languages in Singapore.
Further details
Wú Wúyŭ

Wú is spoken in Zhejiang and Jiangsu provinces and in Shanghai and Hong Kong by about 77 million people. Major dialects of Wu include Shanghainese and Suzhou.
Further details of Shanghainese
Yuè (Cantonese) Cantonese (gwóngdùngwá/yuhtyúh)

Cantonese is spoken by about 66 million people in Guangdong and Guangxi provinces and Hainan island in China, and also in Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore, Malaysia and many other countries
Further details
Mĭn Nán (Southern Min) mínnánhuà (bân-lâm-oe)

Mĭn Nán is in the south of Fujian province, Guangdong province, southern Hainan Island, in the south of Zhejiang and Jiangxi provinces, and also in Taiwan, Singapore and many other countries.
Further details
Jìnyŭ jìnyŭ/shānxīhuà

Jinyu is spoken mainly in Shanxi province and also in Shanxi and Henan provinces by about 45 million people. It used to be considered as a dialect of Mandarin, but is now thought to be a separate variety of Chinese.
Hakka hak ga va (kèjiāhuà)

Hakka is spoken in south eastern China, parts of Taiwan and in the New Territories of Hong Kong. There are also significant communities of Hakka speakers in such countries as the USA, French Guiana, Mauritius and the UK.
Further details
Xiāng (Hunanese) xiāngyŭ/húnánhuà

Xiang (Hunanese) is spoken by about 25 million people in China, mainly in Hunan province, and also in Sichuan, Guangxi and Guangdong provinces.

Gàn gànyŭ/jiāngxīhuà

Gan is spoken by about 20.5 million people in Jiangxi province and in parts of Hubei, Anhui, Hunan and Fujian provinces.

Mín Bĕi (Northern Min) mínbĕihuà

Mín Bĕi has about 10,3 million speakers mainly in Northern Fujian Province and Singapore. Mín is the Classical Chinese name for Fujian province and Bĕi means 'north' or 'northern'.
Mín Dōng (Eastern Min) míndōnghuà

Mín Dōng is spoken mainly in east central Fujian Province and also in Brunei, Indonesia (Java and Bali), Malaysia (Peninsular), Singapore, Thailand. The approximate number of native speakers is 250,000.
Mín Zhōng (Central Min) mínzhōnghuà

Mín Zhōng is spoken mainly in central Fujian Province.
Dungan (хуэйзў йүян)

Dungan is spoken by the Muslim Hui people in China, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. There are approximately 50,000 speakers. Dungan is the only variety of Chinese not with Chinese characters. Instead it is written with the Cyrillic alphabet.

Pŭ-Xián pŭxiánhuà

Pŭ-Xián is spoken by about 6,000 people mainly in east central Fujian Province and in Malaysia and Singapore.
Huīzhōu huīzhōuhuà

Huīzhōu is spoken in southern Anhui and northern Zhejiang provinces. It used to be considered as a dialect of Mandarin, but is now thought to be a separate variety of Chinese.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/chinese_spoken.htm

 

[badguy2000]

We are well aware how China hides bad news.

Nothing new.

It is the way a totalitarian regime keeps a grip over its people.

I may not know Chinese (but then Chinese is such a diverse language and there is nothing like a Chinese language since there are many, like Cantonese etc where the script is same, but the language is different) but I sure know what Comrade means i.e. Tongzhi.

correction:

1.it is not CHina, but Chinese government that wants to hide something .
like every government in the world, Chinese government also has natureal impulse to hide something under carpet.
Since "water gate" can happened in USA,you should not be so strange that something is hidded by Beijing.


2. Chinese government does "want" to hide. But it is harder and harder for CHinese government to manage it,with internent penentrating people life and more and more chinese reading engligh like me.


3.Chinese people dislike the "cover policy" of the government ,just like people in other countries.

4. Beijing aititude and skills to "leading medias" is getting more and more smart.....to some extent, Beijing's skill to " leading meida" is quickling catching up with washington's or London's skills.
once, Beijing was very awkward to "how to lead medias"..so ,everyone can easily find the indication that Beijing controll medias strictly.
But now, Bejing's propagandaing department has learnt a lot from western government. its skill "to lead medias" is getting smarer and smarter.

 

[kautilya]

you really don't know much about modern CHina today.

1. if you have been to both CHina and india yourselve, you would find it very funny to compare India and CHina.

Actually not. Most of your interior west is dirt poor. Where you actually trump us is infrastructure not industry. You add tens of kms of roads every day to your national grid. That's a truly impressive achievement. The trouble with India can be illustrated with the story of atleast one road that I know of very well. This road in a city in south india was to be converted from a 4 lane highway to an 8 lane highway. The trouble was that in towns that this road passed through, settlements were very close to existing road. So a price was fixed for the owners of the property who would be displaced and demolition was to begin when someone went to the courts arguing about the price. Meanwhile there were elections where this became an issue and so on and so forth. China doesn't have a lot of these interlocking mechanisms or atleast the govt doesn't care about them. In India individual protection still trumps govt initiative. At some point this is harmful to national growth but given a choice i'd rather be a decade behind china with such protections than be china without them.

2.the operation of CHina's State-owned enterprises is not as poor as the traditional State-oweed enterprises you think.
they are the upgraded dinosaurs----huge but smart and efficient and perform muich better than most private dinosaurs like GM.
For example ,ICBC is world most profitble and biggest bank .

Not true. There was a study not long back on the inefficiencies of Chinese enterprises. Given how the govt manipulates/rigs the situation, from labour market to electricity there is very little incentive to become efficient.

Perhaps you've heard the news that Mexico and India now top China is low cost manufacturing? That doesn't come from state sponsored products. That comes, if I know the two countries, in spite of it.

Now what does China intend to do? This is a long race comrade. And it's barely started.

 

[Koji]

Actually not. Most of your interior west is dirt poor. Where you actually trump us is infrastructure not industry. You add tens of kms of roads every day to your national grid. That's a truly impressive achievement. The trouble with India can be illustrated with the story of atleast one road that I know of very well. This road in a city in south india was to be converted from a 4 lane highway to an 8 lane highway. The trouble was that in towns that this road passed through, settlements were very close to existing road. So a price was fixed for the owners of the property who would be displaced and demolition was to begin when someone went to the courts arguing about the price. Meanwhile there were elections where this became an issue and so on and so forth. China doesn't have a lot of these interlocking mechanisms or atleast the govt doesn't care about them. In India individual protection still trumps govt initiative. At some point this is harmful to national growth but given a choice i'd rather be a decade behind china with such protections than be china without them.



Not true. There was a study not long back on the inefficiencies of Chinese enterprises. Given how the govt manipulates/rigs the situation, from labour market to electricity there is very little incentive to become efficient.

Perhaps you've heard the news that Mexico and India now top China is low cost manufacturing? That doesn't come from state sponsored products. That comes, if I know the two countries, in spite of it.

Now what does China intend to do? This is a long race comrade. And it's barely started.

What you wrote is right and wrong. While India does value personal property rights, so does China. Those people who are displaced in national projects in China are compensated, albeit poorly. However this isn't a new phenomenon or even strictly a communist one. The government of Japan in the 1960's also pursued "forceful" removal of residents for our infrastructure. I know as well that the United States also resorted to thuggery for their railroads.

As bad as it may seem, you need this kind of motivation and determination to get anything done. This is fairly obvious given the terrible state of India's oversaturated road and railways.


Now onto the manufacturing situation in China, according to the FDI numbers, China is STILL the heavily favored choice for foreign firms to set up shop. I've also read the Mexico article you are referring to, but it shows no indication that FDI in China is slowing down.

 

[Koji]

And to put it out there, Japan deserves a seat more than India or Brazil. Not that you guys don't deserve one, but we deserve it more : )

 

[badguy2000]

Actually not. Most of your interior west is dirt poor. Where you actually trump us is infrastructure not industry

the production of almost every industry section in China is 5-10 time more than that in India.
for example, steel is 10 time; concret is 10+ time more. car is 7 time more,ship is 10+ times more.....

. You add tens of kms of roads every day to your national grid. That's a truly impressive achievement. The trouble with India can be illustrated with the story of atleast one road that I know of very well. This road in a city in south india was to be converted from a 4 lane highway to an 8 lane highway. The trouble was that in towns that this road passed through, settlements were very close to existing road. So a price was fixed for the owners of the property who would be displaced and demolition was to begin when someone went to the courts arguing about the price. Meanwhile there were elections where this became an issue and so on and so forth. China doesn't have a lot of these interlocking mechanisms or atleast the govt doesn't care about them. In India individual protection still trumps govt initiative. At some point this is harmful to national growth but given a choice i'd rather be a decade behind china with such protections than be china without them.

well, the owner of the property in china also get compensation,which is usually more than that in India.
but indeed not all such compensations are fair .

Not true. There was a study not long back on the inefficiencies of Chinese enterprises. Given how the govt manipulates/rigs the situation, from labour market to electricity there is very little incentive to become efficient.

Perhaps you've heard the news that Mexico and India now top China is low cost manufacturing? That doesn't come from state sponsored products. That comes, if I know the two countries, in spite of it.

Now what does China intend to do? This is a long race comrade. And it's barely started.

well, China has been expected to fall by western medias for decades always.....

china's ruling postion in manufacturing is decided not only by "lost cost" but also by other factors.

for example:
1. the discipline of labours. CHinese labour is much more disciplined than India labours.
.
here is a link.which says that Indian companies would rather hire Chinese worker than India lazy local workers ,although chinese worker are more expensive
"4 injured in Chinese-locals clash in India "
4 injured in Chinese-locals clash in India


2. enormorus and ready industry chain.
if you set up a PC plant in Chinese Pearl Delta, you can buy all compenents of your product in one city or even one town. this can save a lot of cost.

But if you set the same plant in India, a lot of component has to be imported from China ,because India can not produce such components.


3.communication cost.
Chinese infrastructure is much more effeicent than India and other developing coutry, the communication cost is also much lower.