Ukraine sould consider India as an important country

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by sasi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Location:
    India
    Ukraine makes a mistake by not considering India a priority country /ÄÅÍÜ/
    ~
    The topic of military-technical cooperation between India andRussia is of interest for Ukraine because of the three facts. First, India is the world’s largest importer of arms. Second, 50 to 70 percent of these weapons aresupplied to India by Russia. Third, the president of Ukraine will visit India from December 10 to 12. Ukraine is a country that could also qualify for more serious positions among the suppliersof military equipment to India. But it seems that it does not. Why is it so?
    Although lately Russian suppliers started to feel less confident in this market (because now they have to participate in tenders, which means that they have to fight for a place under the sun on a competitive basis), India admits that there is still a huge influence of the Kremlin. And this influence is surely disturbing when you see, for example, the court trial over the Pussy Riot case and the fact that the chances for the development of democracy in Russia rapidly move into the abyss. By the way, less than two weeks after Viktor Yanukovych’s visit to New Delhi, Vladimir Putin will come there as well. Political contactsbetween India and Russia are much closer than those between India and Ukraine.
    Indian journalist Vishal Thapar has been covering the topic of defense for many years. For more than a decade he has worked in one of the most prestigious and oldest Indian newspapers Hindustan Times, he has also worked for the English-speaking Indian news channel CNN IBN. Since 2010 he has been the editor of the recently established news channel NewsX, his subject isdefense and strategic affairs.
    We began our conversation with the history of relations between India and Russia, which, in fact, resulted from the Cold War. Actually, there is a feeling that in India the topic of the Cold War has not yet been closed.
    “Partly India-USSR relations are a product of the Cold War.A very important factor was that throughout history there has been no area where these two countries were in conflict, but Western denial toIndia definitely re-imposed theSoviet-India partnership of that time.
    “There was another reason. Huge majority of the Indian political leadership after Indian’s independence in 1947was educated in Britain. Britain was never a communistcountry. But among the intellectuals of those times ‘leftism’ was an intellectual fad. Indians who went to studythere were also influenced, from Jawaharlal Nehru to Indian communists. Most of Indian communist leaders camefrom extremely rich families, and during education in Britainpicked up ideology and practiced communism here. The ideas of the intellectual elite in Britain also played a very important role. Yes, the British left in 1947, but it was still India’s window into the world.
    “And, in a manner of speaking, if somebody colonizes India after the British left, it was the Soviet Union. Soviets were everywhere, from the steel plants to the power plants, to the military hardware, to the construction technology. Theyhad a very special place hereand they managed to work thesystem. There wasn’t a very close relationship on people-to-people level, but there was a great relationship on the government-to-government level. I don’t want to use the word ‘alliance,’ because India wouldnever agree to any alliance, but in practice it was.
    ~
    “Then, after the USSR collapsed, Russia was extremely busy with itself. Relations with India weren’t a top priority. But when Putin became the president, India and Russia signed a Strategic Partnership Agreement in 2000. You must understand that India was also a very bigmarket for Russia and they wanted to protect their interests. Russia’s big USP – unique selling proposition – is: ‘I’ll give you whatever youwant! I’ll give you all those things which nobody in the world is prepared to give you!’ In April this year India inducted into its Navy a Russian nuclear powered submarine Akula. We call it Chakra. This is Russian submarine, leased to India. When it has been inducted, Russian Ambassador Kadakin was there and he said: ‘Whichother country in the world will give you this? Don’t count me along with the others! They are not my competition! – As many were talking about US, and France, and Israel. – They are out of my competition! Which country in the world will give you this?’ – He said it in so many words…
     
  2.  
  3. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Location:
    India
    “Even in the times of the ColdWar this very heavy dependence on Soviet Union bothered some people in Indian establishment. But Russia still had a big influence.
    “When strategic partnership agreement was signed between India and Russia, oneof the issues, which Indians raised, was India’s nuclear powered submarine SSBN which is capable of firing ballistic nuclear missile. India called it Advanced TechnologyVessel (ATV) Project. And also Russian helped. When this submarine was launched into the water in 2009 by the prime minister of India M. Singh, Russians were again allover the place.
    “So, whether it was warships,or submarines, or tanks, or aircraft – everything was Russian. Over 70 percent of Indian military hardware is stillRussian. The only thing which India was doing independentlywas developing of a strategic nuclear weapon program.
    “But now what happens is that Russia has lost every competition it entered. In government-to-government deals there was no competition. But now there is acompetition.
    “The thing is that in post-2000s the situation changed for India. India had again explored its nuclear weapons in 1998. And the waythe world saw India changed. Everyone wanted to be friends with India. So, never in 5,000 years of its existence India has enjoyed so much international cooperation and goodwill as it is now. Now India has a choice.”
    What is the main Russia’sinterest in India?
    “India is a very big market, the biggest market for a military hardware. Nobody sells weapons to China. Everybody wants to sell it to India. For the past several years India has been the largest importer of military equipment and systems in the world. Russians are very quick movers in this market. They know this market better than anyone else. They know how to protect their interest.
    “Russians have tied India intothe Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) category. It supposed to be an Indian-Russian project. But the point is that it has already been developed by Russia. And India doesn’t have any capability to develop its own FGFA category project. The defense minister said that India will buy 250-350 of these aircraft. We are talking about an order of 40-50 billion dollars. But Russia cannot stick to the deadlines. They said that they would give us FGFA already flying till2017. It is already delayed by more than three years. It is not denying huge Russian talent in creating technologies, but this cooperation is not easy. All Russian equipment is late. In military terms it matters a lot. In comparison: Americans delivered the Hercules [aircraft. – Author] ahead of time and under cost. Russiansare still uncomfortable in the way the world is doing business.
    “Putin is coming to India on December 24. As I said, they realize that monopoly in Indiandefense arms market is over. Next big thing is energy. They also want to get into theconsumer market. They are looking for the ways to broaden the commercial arrangement trail.”
    ~
     
  4. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Location:
    India
    Recently I have read an article by former foreignsecretary of India and former Ambassador of India to Russia Kanwal Sibal. He wrote very interesting things about Russia and tenders whichthey lose all the time. And it seems to me that this story is about India, which still has huge problems with corruption, but wants to play by the rules of market, and Russia, which still tries to play by the rules of Cold War and polarized world...
    “Generally speaking, Westernequipment is more reliable. Look at the Indian Air Force. Itincludes a large number of Russian aircraft. But in term ofreliability the Indian Air Force loves the French Mirage [fighter aircraft. – Author]. Russians are losing their ground in quality. And India, from the other side, has moreoptions now.
    “In October Russian defense minister came to India. This visit had been delayed for about a week. On the same time President’s Putin visit to Pakistan was cancelled. And around the same time chief of the Pakistan’s Army Staff Kayani went to Moscow. And there was some buzz in the media here: Russian defense minister stayed back because of Kayani, Pakistan and Russia are trying to explore each other for, maybe, future partnership. It was something new. And for India very strange, because India and Russia have been very big friends and in past Russia always said that they will not provide any weapons to Pakistan. October 8 here is anAir Force Day. There was an Air Force reception. There I’ve heard a conversation between Pakistan military force attache in Delhi and former chief of Indian Air Force. ‘So, I heard that you, guys, are looking around for the equipment in Moscow…’ – the former chief of the Indian Air Force asked the Pakistan military attache. ‘Why not?’ – He replied. ‘My dear fellow, I can give you only one advice,’ former Indian Air Force chief said. ‘If you want to buy Russian equipment, buy lots of it. The problem is that most of it is on repair all the time.’”
    Can you say that Russia is a factor in Indian foreign policy?
    “Russia is a huge factor in Indian foreign policy. I can saythat after India got independence, Russia became more influential in India than even Britain.
    “Besides everything that I mentioned, there is a great deal of common interest: China, Central Asia, Afghanistan, Iran.”
    ~
    Some people say that Russia has become a factor in Indian-Ukrainian relations? Do you know anything aboutthat?
    “Ukraine is such a resourceful country. But as I see Ukraine has not been able to push itself. Many years ago (it was about 2002)I saw Ukrainians at the big defense exhibition in India. After that I didn’t see them. India would always want balance in its relations. India tries to widen its base of suppliers. US, France, Israel... But anyway India is going to be dependent on Russia for a long time in nuclear and energy, defense sectors.
    “As for Ukraine, besides cooperation with China, we’vealso heard about Ukraine, who tries to build a relationship with Pakistan. Of course, every country protects its commercial and national interests. But it seems to me that Ukraine does the same mistake that Russia did in the 1990s: Ukraine thinks that India is not a priority.”
    _
    BS- title is misleading.more like a story...:hippo:
     
  5. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,093
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Location:
    KINGDOM OF TRAVANCORE
    Ukraine, South Africa and Brasil are the 3 countries which has to be utilized for strategic and diplomatic leverages.
     
  6. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Location:
    Delhi, India, India
    Yeah, like the Cryogenic Engine where we needed their help :dude:

    I can see how it turned in favor of China and not so much for India.
    The Chinese when challenged by technology blockades, went for ways of technology self reliance.
    Whether the method was clean or was the dirty copycat tricks with dropped out USSR scientists etc was nowhere a concern. Being practical, indeed right so.
    But what does India do? India slumbers to face Russia and opens its mouth wide. Till date the mouth is open for Russia or whoever is interested to sell.
    Building our own skills has taken a back seat. :tsk:

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
  7. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    My knew with the slew of arms providers(US,RUSSIA,EUR), SA does not have much influence on India either strategic or diplomatic.
     
  8. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,093
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Location:
    KINGDOM OF TRAVANCORE
    I didnt provide the names of Indian arms supplier but of adversary. :sad:
     
    sesha_maruthi27 likes this.

Share This Page