Ukraine plans to produce aircraft the Chinese school

[gadeshi]

The indigenous matrices is produced in Kiev for "Photoprylad" (Cherkassy). Yes, in the military industry, many Belarusian components. In 2014 Belarus helped to restore the defence potential of Ukraine. Arrived: gasoline, kerosene, diesel engines, truck, optics and electronics.

Aha, does Photoprilad make non-cooling IR and bi-spectral (IR/UV) high res matrices of todays level itself?
NO. And will not ever. You very well know why

 

[Akim]

Aha, does Photoprilad make non-cooling IR and bi-spectral (IR/UV) high res matrices of todays level itself?
NO. And will not ever. You very well know why

Without Russian technology?
Russia buys from Belarus thermal imaging tank sights, which like the Ukrainian "Buran-Catherine", developed with the help of the French. A replacement can always be found. On the first An-178 is installed Russian avionics. In the following we will set American.

 

[gadeshi]

Without Russian technology?
Russia buys from Belarus thermal imaging tank sights, which like the Ukrainian "Buran-Catherine", developed with the help of the French. A replacement can always be found. On the first An-178 is installed Russian avionics. In the following we will set American.

Russia had bought them earlier for T-72B3 only. And they are not so sophisticated as for today.
Modern indigenous non-cooling hi-res matrices are produced by Shvabe holding (as a part of KRET).

 

[gadeshi]

Without Russian technology?
Russia buys from Belarus thermal imaging tank sights, which like the Ukrainian "Buran-Catherine", developed with the help of the French. A replacement can always be found. On the first An-178 is installed Russian avionics. In the following we will set American.

An-178 will not be built more than 1 (one) prototype.
Reasons are obvious:
1 - Financial and economical impotency of Ukraine.
2 - Technological inferiority without composite wing, modern engines and avionics.
3 - An-178 has born-made mortal flaw - it has wrong centering backwards about 30% AWC (Average Wing Chorde) which is not fixable without complete fuselage redesign. Now it carries 1500kg of dead weight ballast in nose part of the cargo hall to compensate this flaw and allow the plane to take off at all

 

[Akim]

An-178 will not be built more than 1 (one) prototype.
Reasons are obvious:
1 - Financial and economical impotency of Ukraine.
2 - Technological inferiority without composite wing, modern engines and avionics.
3 - An-178 has born-made mortal flaw - it has wrong centering backwards about 30% AWC (Average Wing Chorde) which is not fixable without complete fuselage redesign. Now it carries 1500kg of dead weight ballast in nose part of the cargo hall to compensate this flaw and allow the plane to take off at all

Is that you on pictures saw? You obviously have extensive experience of aircraft construction. Funny. It already has an order for 80 units.

 

[gadeshi]

Is that you on pictures saw? You obviously have extensive experience of aircraft construction. Funny. It already has an order for 80 units.

In your dreams and Ukrainian media only.
There are no hard-signed contracts exist.

Proof for ballast plates:
Как сообщают инсайдеры на ряде веб-ресурсов, в ходе первых летных испытаний первого построенного ГП "Антонов" опытного образца нового транспортного самолета Ан-178 (серийный номер 001, регистрация UR-EXP) выявилась серьезная проблема с центровкой машины, вызванная существенными ошибками при проектировании. В результате для обеспечения нормальной центровки самолет вынужден выполнять все сколько-нибудь длительные испытательные и перегоночные полеты с дополнительным балластным грузом массой 1,32 тонны (!) в виде пакета из 15 стальных плит весом 85-90 кг каждая, уложенного сразу за кабиной экипажа.
As we know from Antonovs insiders, An-178 prototype has serious problem with mass centering which are caused by serious design flaws and computation errors. This resulted in palliative solution of placing 1.32 tons steel plates package (15 pieces of 80-90kg each) just after crew compartment:

 

[Akim]

In your dreams and Ukrainian media only.
There are no hard-signed contracts exist.

Read more Russian media. They hiss that had the Il-214. Of course still no firm contracts. Jet had not yet passed all the tests.

 

[gadeshi]

Read more Russian media. They hiss that had the Il-214. Of course still no firm contracts. Jet had not yet passed all the tests.

Look at my previous post, it was updated and added some interesting parts

But there is another bad circumstances for it:
4 - It is inferior to ALL the counterparts including Embraers KC-390 in a flight package
5 - It cannot carry military vehicles (small cargo hold width)

So, you can forget about it

 

[Akim]

Look at my previous post, it was updated and added some interesting parts

But there is another bad circumstances for it:
4 - It is inferior to ALL the counterparts including Embraers KC-390 in a flight package
5 - It cannot carry military vehicles (small cargo hold width)

So, you can forget about it

I'm sorry, but I don't even want to comment on this photo with the plates.There are interviews with the designer, which explains their presence. With regards to military equipment. Can the BTR-80 it will not fit, but the truck or more SUV - no problem.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ov-is-nearly-grounded-in-ukraine.65759/page-3

 

[gadeshi]

I'm sorry, but I don't even want to comment on this photo with the plates.There are interviews with the designer, which explains their presence. With regards to military equipment. Can the BTR-80 it will not fit, but the truck or more SUV - no problem.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ov-is-nearly-grounded-in-ukraine.65759/page-3

Yeah, yeah, Kiva's (who fucked up all the DB) friend designer who has fucked-up airframe centering up to 45% AWC and trying to explain to ukrainian FB hamsters why they are there? It is funny, yes
And yes, wearing just a truck (one track!!!) and being unable to carry APC or even IFV (like KC-390 can) and being unable to be refuelled in flight and unable to be a tanker by design is also funny
And another funny thing - AVIANT Antonov plant in Kiyev demands $2 billions just for current funds augmentation to start aircraft serial (not a single in a year) production. But to sustain production, buy materials and spares, and the most important - renew all the equipment - it needs extra $5-7 billions at least.
So, have you understood?

 

[Akim]

Yeah, yeah, Kiva's (who fucked up all the DB) friend designer who has fucked-up airframe centering up to 45% AWC and trying to explain to ukrainian FB hamsters why they are there? It is funny, yes
And yes, wearing just a truck (one track!!!) and being unable to carry APC or even IFV (like KC-390 can) and being unable to be refuelled in flight and unable to be a tanker by design is also funny
And another funny thing - AVIANT Antonov plant in Kiyev demands $2 billions just for current funds augmentation to start aircraft serial (not a single in a year) production. But to sustain production, buy materials and spares, and the most important - renew all the equipment - it needs extra $5-7 billions at least.
So, have you understood?

Explain it to me. Why only one APC?
To throw only the company will have 10 aircraft.

 

[amoy]

[Translated] Over 50 pilots and ground crew of the Zambia Air Force have just completed training sessions of L-15 Falcon Advanced trainer in Hongdu Aviation Industry of China on 28 Dec..

In 2014 ZAF signed a deal for six L-15 Falcon jet trainers made by Hongdu Aviation Industry of China after the delivery of 16 K-8 Karakorum jet trainers and seven Z-9 light attack helicopter both made in China.

Aircraft is fitted with two Ukranian Progress AL-222K-25F turbofan engines with afterburners. It is worth noting, that China signed a contract with Ukraine for delivery of 1 920 of these engines for the L-15 trainer. Delivery is scheduled until 2041.

The L-15 has secondary light attack capability. It has four underwing and two wingtip hardpoints to carry various weapons, including short-range air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, bombs and rocket pods.

This aircraft features a number of advanced technologies such as digital fly-by-wire, hands on throttle and stick controls. It also has good aerodynamic performance.

The L-15 Falcon is more advanced in terms of technology comparing with the JL-9, however it is also more expensive to produce. If this aircraft is chosen by the PLAAF, first operational trainers will become available as early as 2008. The L-15 is also proposed for the export customers.

 

[amoy]

Odesa Aviation Plant will assemble Chinese light attack aircraft for the Air Force of Ukraine

Ukraine plans to launch the assembly of Chinese Hongdu L-15 light attack aircraft at an Odesa-based facility in 2016, a Ukrainian weekly has reported; discussions on the project are in their final stages. The manufacturing will be performed at Odesa’s Odesaviaremservis, a subdivision of the state’s Ukroboronprom defense complex (Delovaa Stolitsa, November 23). The L-15 is a licensed copy of the latest Russian combat trainer, the Yak-130.

The new aircraft will be equipped with Ukrainian AI-222-25F jet engines produced by Zaporozhye’s Motor-Sich factory, which used to be supplied for Russia’s Yak-130 combat trainer project, suspended after Ukraine embargoed exports of the engines to Russia following the latter country’s March 2014 annexation of Crimea (Lenta, August 8).

China’s interest in Ukraine’s military-industrial complex predates the Hongdu light attack aircraft contract. In 1998, China purchased the incomplete Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag, an Admiral Kuznetsov–class heavy aircraft cruiser built at Ukraine’s Mykolaiv shipyards. TheVaryag was laid down by the Soviet Navy in 1988, transferred incomplete to Ukraine in 1992, and six years later sold to China, where, after extensive refitting, the ship was commissioned as theLiaoning, in 2012 (Lenta, September 25, 2012).

To produce the L-15 plane at Odesa’s Odesaviaremservis aviation plant, China assisted in increasing the factory’s capacity. No details on the cost of the contract or the number of aircraft have been released to date (Censor.net.ua, November 16).

The loss of Ukrainian-built AI-222-25 engines for the Yak-130 combat training aircraft forced the Russian aircraft industry to look for alternatives to Ukrainian production. The effort was sufficiently successful that an AI-222-25 engine built with Russian components was exhibited at the MAKS Aviation Salon, held on August 25–30, in Zhukovsky, outside Moscow. The new AI-222-25 Yak-130 combat trainer engines were built at Moscow’s Saliute plant. Saliute general director Aleksandr Artiukhov told exhibition visitors that “the replacement of foreign-built engines is one of the major challenges facing corporations today, and involves the development of the entire assembly product line, as well as a major upgrade of experienced and mass production facilities" (RIA Novosti, August 25).

Having managed to replace Ukrainian components, the Russian Saliute plant is now touting its engine variants for export, noting that while the original AI-222-25 turbofan jet engine was designed for installation on the Yak-130, the plant has “developed several modifications to the engine, including the AI-222-25F, which has an afterburner”; when deployed, this version gives a 50 percent boost in speed (Salut.ru, accessed December 14). Another variant, the AI-222-28, “can be equipped with thrust vector control systems. Depending on the design of the aircraft, the system can provide all-aspect deviation of the jet up to 20 degrees from the axis of the engine, along with other options,” which would allow its incorporation into short take-off and landing (STOL) airframes, enabling these aircraft to utilize short runways.

Meanwhile, Ukraine sees products and armaments of its Soviet-era heavy industry military-industrial complex as increasingly important to its exports. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), by 2012, Ukraine had become the world’s fourth-largest arms exporter, selling $1.344 billion in armaments, exceeded only by the United States ($8.76 billion), Russia ($8 billion) and China ($1.78 billion) (Interfax-Ukraine, March 18, 2013).

An integral element in this arms trade is Ukrinmash, which, along with Ukroboronservice and Prohres enterprise, is a leading Ukrainian state-owned company dealing with the arms trade, among other items in its portfolio. Ukrinmash has exported armaments to a number of countries, including Russia, Mongolia, China, Sri Lanka and Cuba. However, Ukrinmash’s sales have sometimes been morally questionable, as in the past it supplied armaments to Sudan, Syria and Yemen. And more recently, after the conflict with Russia had begun, Ukrinmash was harshly criticized for selling on the internal market a significant volume of weapons that were supposed to be delivered to the Ukrainian army but many of which ended up in the hands of separatists (Nowa Europa Wschodnia, March 4).

It remains to be seen whether the China-Ukraine Hongdu light attack aircraft contract is the precursor of deeper Chinese-Ukrainian armaments relations. Nevertheless, this deal represents a first in that China is not only developing joint production of weaponry in the post-Soviet space, but it is explicitly dealing with a country in Russia’s self-proclaimed “sphere of privileged interest” with which Russia has poor relations. As a major supplier of energy to China, Russia has some cards to play if it starts to see China’s relationship with Ukraine as a threat. But utilizing those pressure points could come at a substantive economic cost to Russia at a time of record low global energy prices, combined with the European Union’s efforts to diversify away from Russian energy imports.

Accordingly, it seems likely that Russia will, for the moment at least, grudgingly tolerate the Hongdu contract while carefully monitoring any deepening development of Ukrainian-Chinese joint armaments production.

 

[Navneet Kundu]

China has started meddling in Russian backyard. Seems like Nixon's outreach to China, in the hope that they could contain Russia, is finally paying off.

This is good news for India though. The more shivers China gives to Russia, the more desperate Russia becomes. This allows us to negotiate our defense production contracts with Russia from a position of strength.

 

[Akim]

This is good news for India though. The more shivers China gives to Russia, the more desperate Russia becomes. This allows us to negotiate our defense production contracts with Russia from a position of strength.

You think HAL HJT-36 Sitara good training aircraft?

 

[pmaitra]

Some this L-15 looks like a Chinese copy of the Yakovlev-130.

Assuming Russia sells the S-400 to PRC; within a couple years, they will copy it can call it J-400.

 

[Akim]

Some this L-15 looks like a Chinese copy of the Yakovlev-130.

It is taken as a basis, but this is not an exact copy.

 

[Navneet Kundu]

You think HAL HJT-36 Sitara good training aircraft?

Doesn't matter; I'm looking at it strategically, not tactically. Russia has been averse to transferring critical technology to us, and also has a habit of arbitrarily jacking up costs for the platforms that we buy from them, even though we have good consensus on strategic issues. Once Russia starts losing its market share due to Chinese sales, and their industry starts incurring losses, they will have to make concessions for us otherwise they will continue blackmailing us.

They haven't been forthcoming as far as ToT for engines is concerned. We have a joint project with them to procure Multi-role Transport Aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAC/HAL_Il-214, but there are disagreements over engine.

The Russian model of bargaining is to deny military technology at critical moments to put India in a vulnerable spot as a means to blackmail us into agreeing to their terms. That has to go.

 

[pmaitra]

It is taken as a basis, but this is not an exact copy.

Don't worry, very soon you will see a Chinese copy of the SR-10, which they will call JF-10:

 

[Bahamut]

Some this L-15 looks like a Chinese copy of the Yakovlev-130.

Assuming Russia sells the S-400 to PRC; within a couple years, they will copy it can call it J-400.

Using Russian component just like flanker copies requires Russian engine .They are unable to make primary system like radar and engine of required technology .Will take another 10 years.