UK military's secret plan to train Syrian rebels to topple Bashar

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Ray, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I am not surprised.

    For all one knows, the plan, in some sort of a dilution is what is in action in Syria.

    I have always wondered that when there was two global superpowers, the world was at peace, even if a shaky peace.

    After the collapse of the Soviet Union, an interesting article caught my mind - The Wolfowitz Doctrine.

    The document outlined a policy of unilateralism and pre-emptive military action to suppress potential threats from other nations and prevent any other nation from rising to superpower status.

    Given the events following the Collapse of the USSR and the world going up in localised 'flames', I am convinced that the Wolfowitz Doctrine is said to have been junked and a new one put in place, is actually in action - the original one.

    Events all over the world proves so because with the collapse of the USSR (not that anyone shed tears), the world has turned topsy turvy with strife all over. It could not have been without external assistance. Given the geostrategic and geopolitical compulsions of the West to suppress potential threats from other nations and prevent any other nation from rising to superpower status, all this turmoil in the world falls in place.

    There could be reasons for some section of these countries where there is this turmoil to desire a 'regime change':, but it could not be so widespread since men are generally too disconcerted and are only interested in their daily existence. Very few care about the political chemistry that rules.

    However, this section of population of the countries which are in turmoil which desires regime change, can only do so with external assistance, since the established government that have been toppled or in the process, have strong military to back up their govts. Therefore, no group can kick up a storm in the teacup.

    And these so called assisted 'regimes changes' serves the policy that aims to suppress potential threats from other nations and prevent any other nation from rising to superpower status.

    Food for thought.
     
  2.  
  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Gives the insight to the happenings.
     
  4. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    And one day Syrian Rebels will whuup the hell out of UK & USA like the Taliban did & there will NATO operation in name of WAR ON TERROR

    What a mockery you people of made of Middle east & Central Asia :Facepalm:
     
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,161
    Location:
    EST, USA
    I have said this earlier that the UK is a pest of a country, always being a prick, and trying to control far away countries by poking its nose everywhere, and supporting terrorists. It is still trying to come to terms with the fact that it is, today, a tiny country of zero consequence without being a lackey of the US.
     
    Peter likes this.
  6. apple

    apple Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    171
    Think you're being quite revisionist with your claim that the world was at a shaky peace during the Cold War. I know, from a (non European) western perspective, that incidences of "warlike" conditions have decreased world wide since the end of the Cold War.

    The Wolfowitz Doctrine, and any potential successor, is interesting. However, your post ignores the fact that (if it isn't already) China is next potential world superpower and Iraq/ Afghanistan/ Somalia/ whoever were never going to globally important countries. The only part of the world that's gone, to use your term, topsy turvy recently has been the Islamic world, which wasn't too stable to begin with.
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Shaky peace equates with armed peace.

    If incidence of 'warlike conditions' have decreased, then what are we seeing of late around the world? It maybe true that there has been a decrease in the number of direct involvement of the Superpower military or their proxies.

    Also one has to see the span in years of the Cold War and the incidence vis a vis the span of Post Cold War and incidence. There is a greater number of direct confrontation between the powers or their proxies now.

    What of China being a potential superpower? She is not in the recokoning since she is not intervening, except around her neighbourhood and the SCS.

    The Islamic world was stable to the extent that it could be and its problems were with Israel and no more. Ever since, the so called 'regime change' done in Iraq, the area from Pakistan to the West has gone up in flames. And guess who is responsible?

    Western propaganda and disinformation had gripped the world as 'true', but the world has changed since Nations are less inclined to be arm-twisted with aid etc, and so western opinion is no longer taken as the Gospel.

    The mea culpa of Britain indicates the skulduggery done by the West and when found out, they claim righteousness of their action with high moral sounding thoughts and words when it is pure codswallop and deceitful.

    What business has the West to intervene in Nations, even if there is strife brewing?

    Is the West the UN or is it the policeman of the world?

    One would not mind mediators, but one surely minds when one equips one side to rebel against another in a country.

    The idiocy of superimposing Western thoughts and values on another nation, without knowing a sausage of the local culture and tradition, only adds to turmoil and strife, more so when dollars pour in to enforce western values.

    Look what has happened to the Middle East ever since the superimposing of western values in Iraq. There is an Islamic Army wreaking vengeance. mayhem and chaos that has once again brought in western intervention from the air, adding to more distress and fear of the people and destabilising their lives out there.

    And to image that a secular country like Turkey is moving steadfastly to rigid Islam!

    The West only knows how to cut its nose to spite its face!

    And you don't even have the courage to right what you think is wrong, and as soon as you are given a hiding by a rag tag band, you bolt, leaving a total mess and covering your retreat, nay rout, with high moral principle laced with total deceit, as in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    You don't even have the nerve, mettle or courage to give a good fight and stand up to what you believe in!

    Cheers and tally ho and pip pip and all that!
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  8. apple

    apple Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    171
    No there is not and ISIS, or whatever they are calling themselves now, don't compare well with the Viet Cong/ Shining Path/ Zanu PF/ etc... During the Cold War there was at least one, and quite often several, ongoing confrontations, on every continent (bar Europe, North America and Australia), for virtually the whole period.

    I had other points to raise and responses to the points you raised. But, while I have enjoyed your posts in the past, I was disappointed by the end of your message to the extent that I can't be bothered continuing this correspondance


    I wouldn't have expect such as offensive opinion from Hello10, let only you...

    Although you did use some words Hello10 would have struggled to spell ;-)
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    You delude yourself. You are fear crazed by even the memories of the movements that walloped and clobbered that West that haunt your living life, but you find other such movements as a mere blister!

    Don't be superficial. Each problem/ conflict during the Cold war was West inspired or a legacy bequeathed by the West.

    No issue if you cannot be bothered for after all, you have nothing to say or add or refute. I agree you cannot answer in a void of facts and reality.




    Not to worry.

    The cyberspace does surprise.

    I write what I write because I do have a certificate, or call it a degree, if you wish from Cambridge.
     
    pmaitra likes this.
  10. apple

    apple Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    171
    I don't fear ISIS or any of the losers of the Cold War.

    I should only speak from an Australian perspective, as I'm not that familiar with other nation's histories, but everything's been (largely) great since Gorbachev and his droogies got sensible. Last people that walloped and clobbered the Australian army were the Japanese in 1942. Although, the Viet Cong got inside the wire twice (FSB Coral???) and the Chinese were hard to stop at Kapyong.

    In comparison, which shouldn't be made as they are different situations, militarily the War on Terror has been far "easier" than the Cold War. There were twice as many Australian civilians murdered by Islamic terrorists in Bali than there are names on the Australian Roll of Honour from Afghanistan and Iraq.

    I thought you were a mature gentleman. You should be able to view recents events, and the reporting of them, with some perspective...

    And every problem/ conflict during the Cold War was the West's fault, was it? Not quite sure why I ever considered you neutral.

    P.S. I've taught preparation courses for the Cambridge TOEFL test, so I'm not going to be calling it a degree.

    Quoting you again... shameless :-/
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    How can you fear anything when you are nowhere in the ambit of what is called the world, and instead so isolated that one wonders if you actually exist. Your value to world events is as good as the UK, both hanging on to the apron string of the US to be in the penumbra of their might.

    Of course Australian Army 'walloped' the Japanese and we must not forget the magnificent work done against the original Australians (the Aborigines) at Slaughterhouse Creek Massacre, 1838, could we? Great stuff, what?

    Gallipoli Campaign was a landmark, but was it a wallop? If so, who was walloped?

    Vietnam is better forgotten since again a ragtag rice eating natives sent all packing.

    In the War on Terror, what has been the Australian military's contribution and combat record?

    Shameless or otherwise, throwing in the towel to a ragtag 'towelhead' (as you all call them) rabble and hightailing it home is hardly a sign of stoic or courage, or is it by some standards?

    No, every conflict in the world is not the West's fault. However, a large number of them are and in places where there is no reason to mind their (the locals') business, especially in the Islamic world. Their psyche, tradition, culture and customs are totally different from all and one cannot impose Western values and ideals on them. When anyone tries, the areas of confrontation enlarges the squabble they have amongst themselves.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
    Otm Shank and pmaitra like this.
  12. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    Bharatana
    UK still pursuing its Divide and Rule Policy. Such an Annoying little Nation. Still hasnt learned anything from History.
     
  13. apple

    apple Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    171
    Australian's aren't Canadians. We don't try to explain ourselves and desire other nations, and nationals, to understand us.

    Nor are we Indians and we don't fly off the handle at the smallest (perceived or actually) insult to national pride.

    It was a plan drawn up by the military.

    Well, apparently it was... I haven't bothered to read the story.

    Coming up with plans is what staff officers do. Am sure, down the back of some filling cabinet somewhere in Whitehall, the British army has plans for how to put down an armed insurrection in Cornwall, as well as, invasion plans for Norway.

    Intervention in Syria by the UK was, compared to the invasion of Norway, reasonably likely and the armed force wouldn't be doing their job if they hadn't been making preperations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    @apple

    Have I posted this

    ?

    Could you quote the Post number?

    One has to understand nations to understand one's position/ standing in the world.

    Equally, one must try to let other nations understand them so that there is harmony and peace.

    We have some national pride and is that a disqualification?

    May I draw your attention to this poem?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  15. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,161
    Location:
    EST, USA
    @Ray Sir,

    May I ask what transpired here?

    Did @apple take your post, fill in his own content, and try to attribute it onto you?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I think he must have clubbed all the issues and then edited and overwrote with his paraphrase -Various slurs against Australia and, in particularly, the Australian Army and its history.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,161
    Location:
    EST, USA
    He has this habit of making things up and attributing on others. I wouldn't trust him for a second.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I am an external optimist.

    I let all this pass since it take all sorts to make this world.

    Acceptance and tolerance and forgiveness, those are life-altering lessons.
     
  19. Otm Shank

    Otm Shank Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2014
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    canada
    What are you on about?
     

Share This Page