U.S. military says keeps up with China

Discussion in 'Americas' started by LETHALFORCE, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    6,556
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/01/us-usa-china-military-idUKTRE7101AG20110201

    (Reuters) - U.S. military commanders are expressing confidence that they can hold their own in the face of faster-than-expected advances by China's military, but looming cost cuts are adding to doubts about the future of American power in the Pacific.

    Fueled by its booming economy, China's military growth over the past decade has exceeded most U.S. forecasts. Its plans to develop aircraft carriers, anti-satellite missiles and other advanced systems have alarmed neighbors and Washington.

    Critics, including within the U.S. Congress, note with apprehension that rising Chinese defense spending coincides with Washington's plans to scale back its budgets.

    They accuse the Pentagon of appearing flat-footed in its response to China's military advances, like the development of a stealth fighter jet and a new missile that could challenge U.S. aircraft carriers.

    "I think we're headed on the wrong track," Randy Forbes, a Republican lawmaker who is part of the Congressional China Caucus, told Reuters.

    Experts agree that as China's military expands its reach, the risks of potentially dangerous misunderstandings between the U.S. and Chinese armed forces will increase.

    But they are divided over whether China's rise necessarily means a decline in power for the U.S. military, or whether it can indefinitely preserve its edge through investments, technological advances and strengthened Asian alliances.

    Moreover interdependence between the world's two largest economies creates little incentive for conflict, but regional frictions may ultimately prove the most likely spark for confrontation, experts say.

    The debate over whether the United States can preserve its military advantage hits home for the U.S. Navy, which is tasked with preserving U.S. access to international waters around China that the People's Liberation Army appears intent on controlling.

    In an interview from an office at the Washington Navy Yard, a military base in the nation's capital, the top Navy commander said the military had plans in place to cope with advances in China, and elsewhere. "We're not flat footed" in the response to China, Admiral Gary Roughead told Reuters.

    "I would say that we are responding, or advancing, our capabilities in such a way that we're pacing the global developments that are taking place," he said.

    "That includes Chinese advances, it includes developments that are taking place in other parts of the world as well."

    U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates added his voice to such assurances, saying the United States needed to "respond appropriately with our own programs" to Chinese advances.

    Some analysts warn that the United States cannot hedge against every future Chinese capability in an era of tight spending. Then there are practical limitations of providing security in Asia.

    "The problem is that for China, it's a home game. For us, it's an away game," said James Carafano, a defense analyst at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank.

    "We've got this razor thin margin (of error) and they're assuming (at the Pentagon) they have perfect knowledge and know exactly what the Chinese are going to do."

    ARE FEARS OVERBLOWN?

    The core U.S. defense budget -- not including war funding -- was $530 billion in 2010. That's well beyond China's 532.1 billion yuan (about $80 billion) in official defense spending. Analysts believe that China's military spending is much higher than it publicly admits.

    "The Chinese are not 10 feet tall," said Admiral Mike Mullen, who as chairman of the U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff is the top U.S. military officer.

    A top Chinese official acknowledged recently the United States will retain unchallengeable global dominance for at least two decades.

    Still, analysts point out that Chinese advances in areas like cyber warfare could more quickly level the playing field. The U.S. military can invest heavily in new capabilities, but it will always have weaknesses that can be exploited.

    A U.S. military official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said exercises and simulations conducted by the U.S. military have taken into account new technologies and capabilities in the region that could alter the status quo. The official declined to cite China specifically.

    Pentagon officials, when asked about China, have pointed to a five-year budget plan that -- while lower than initially projected -- still invests heavily in new technologies like a new generation of long-range nuclear bombers, jammers and radar.

    The U.S. military does not expect to build new bases in Asia in the near future but aims to "enhance" its presence in Southeast Asia while maintaining it in Northeast Asia, Gates said recently.

    There are nearly 80,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Japan and South Korea alone. Gates recently warned an audience in Tokyo that China "might behave more assertively toward its neighbors" without the U.S. presence in Japan.

    INEVITABLE ADVERSARIES?

    Gates, for one, has said he did not believe the United States and China are "inevitable strategic adversaries."

    The United States and China are the world's two largest economies, and some analysts say their economic dependency and shared interest in global stability will over time smooth tensions -- and lower the risk of conflict.

    "The Chinese do not want to go to war with us. They own too much of our debt, and rely too much on us for trade," said Chris Hellman of the nonprofit National Priorities Project.

    But whether China's economic growth translates into better military relations remains an open question, particularly if Pentagon officials are correct in saying Beijing is developing arms specifically designed to counter U.S. capabilities.

    China's navy has alarmed neighbors with aggressive behavior, and last year's flare-up of a territorial dispute over islands -- known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China -- set off alarms in the region.

    "Are we heading toward a clash between the U.S. and China? I don't think so," U.S. Vice Admiral David Dorsett, director of naval intelligence, said in January.

    "I would be more worried about an inadvertent tension, crisis, conflict over the Senkakus with the deployment of Chinese maritime-associated ships," he said.
     
  2.  
  3. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,538
    Likes Received:
    350
    US defense budget is big enough to overwhelm the whole world, how much more they want? President Eisenhower has warned US public 50 years ago to keep a sharp eye on Defense industry. Because these interest groups will never stop seeking more power of the country, lobbing the politicians for their political agenda, spreading fears and eventually bankrupt the country.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  4. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    hehe, i really enjoyed reading the comments by US military personnel. although, i wish i could have seen their faces when they said it. just to confirm a few...suspicions.


    "The problem is that for China, it's a home game. For us, it's an away game," said James Carafano, a defense analyst at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank.


    oh i think you have a few more problems besides that. ;)
     
  5. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Location:
    Brussels
    This is somewhere your ego gets hurt. Without reason you feel that pulling down 2 battle-groups is damn insult.

    Keeping your forces battle worthy all time to protect homeland & foreign interests is good till some extent. But too much Chinese obsession is not good for US. Rather US forces should keep trust in their alliances for if any casualty.
     
  6. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    oh, and "keep up" sure is a funny way of describing US military to China. unless they know something i dont. well i suppose it makes sense US military personnel understand what the recent Chinese military has done and its significance more than i do.

    though i still feel strongly its a silly attempt to get more funding or at least stop the possible cuts.
     
  7. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    2
    What problems does the US have militarily? There is no specific problem currently re: a US-China conflict. "keep up" was a reference to maintaining the lead/dominance we currently have with regard to Chinese technologies, not that China is technologically ahead of the US.

    For example China recently had a debut of a supposedly stealthy combat aircraft, the US had a debut of a supposedly stealthy unmanned autonomous combat aircraft. The lead is maintained.

    Seems to be a confirmation of whats always been known, it isn't technology that's the problem. Its logistics logistics logistics, and how to widen the spigot
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2011
  8. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    US Military commanders are famous for exaggerating the capabilities of their opponents to justify the ridiculous military budget.
    Its part of the cold war mentality.

    The US needs to cut its defense budget buy 1/3 and it would still outspend many of its top rivals put together.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    The US budget maybe astronomical, but then their weapons' cost is also astronomical!

    Chinese weapons cost nothing in comparison.

    That is where the nub lies.

    Of the US Budget, it has to pay for the various wars that they are fighting or containing.

    China has no wars on hand to foot the bill.

    The US like Russia should outsource their weapons development in joint ventures with countries that have common strategic aims and where labour and material is less costly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2011
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    6,556
    Most other NATO members also export weapons, it would cut into US sales.
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    If the US cooperates with say, India, which has a large defence requirement, it would offset much.

    India would obviously buy what she has developed in cooperation with the US.
     
  12. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    that was a nice steer.

    "What problems does the US have militarily"

    thats not what i said. you really think China needs to have a full on war with the US if they wanted to take...Taiwan for example?

    between economics and the recent Taiwanese general thing Beijing is already sucking Taiwan in.
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    US has no problem.

    It has ensured that Taiwan remains free, stopped through Japan the Chinese aggressive intent over the Islands and keeping China worried that China is being 'encircled'.

    One does not have to have a war to prove who calls the tune.

    Events and their outcome shows that the US calls the tune!
     
  14. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    216
    Location:
    Gurgaon/Noida
    No matter what happens, there is no chance of both of them going to full scale war, considering the economic interests that both countries have in each other. But their is a possibility of China scaling up tensions with both Japan and Taiwan just to make them feel they are at China's mercy. And if things do go out of hand, there is very much the possibility of the US getting involved, although it will be a very short flare-up, and hopefully nothing more.
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    The day China can muster courage to take Taiwan, that will be the day!

    The US is not a paper tiger as China is!

    It is the Taiwanese who are sucking in Communist China!
     
  16. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    virtually no country of relevance recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country.

    now even Philippines extradite Taiwanese criminals to China. Taiwanese sovereignty looks less and less real.

    Japan is the absolute worst example of keeping China in check. the trawler incident just happened. really dude....
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Relevance is not recognition, but trade.

    Japan did not keep China in check in the trawler issue. They just told China where to back off!
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Relevance is not recognition, but trade.

    Japan did not keep China in check in the trawler issue. They just told China where to back off!

    To believe such a small country told China to wake up to realities!

    Interesting, isn't it, Tongzhi?
     
  19. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    if its trade then Taiwan is even more sucked into China



    Taiwan-China trade agreement: A game changer
    http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/29/news/international/china_taiwan_trade.fortune/index.htm


    i think you are very confused who got the short end of the stick in that incident between China and Japan.


    Japan relents, to release Chinese fishing vessel captain
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ishing-vessel-captain/articleshow/6619930.cms

    Japan Retreats With Release of Chinese Boat Captain
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/world/asia/25chinajapan.html

    Japan Caves In To Chinese Pressure: Releases Trawler Captain
    http://www.japanprobe.com/2010/09/24/japan-caves-in-to-chinese-pressure-releases-trawler-captain/

    Did Japan Cave to China Too Soon?
    http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2010/09/24/did-japan-cave-to-china-too-soon/


    they might not even get compensation for damages :/
    http://www.google.ca/webhp?hl=en#hl...r+bill&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=40ff3dd5fb0bfb49
     
  20. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    2
    It was a case of winning the battle but losing the war. They secured the release of the captain for a pr victory (and little else), but have pushed Japan even farther away from them, made them rethink their economic dependance, and further limited their geopolitical possibilities.

    If China wanted to be the dominant power/ hegemon in Asia or a secure economic lifeline, its job got tougher.
     
  21. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    well first of all, your view of politics is simplistic. so what if they get pushed? they will learn to get over it.

    you think Japan even has an option of avoiding China?


    Over 10,000 Japanese firms operating in China: credit research firm
    http://www.japantoday.com/category/...firms-operating-in-china-credit-research-firm


    Japanese firms hire China's brightest
    http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201011240244.html



    they are even trying to woo the Chinese public right now because they know who the CCP has to pander to from time to time.

    Japanese embassy blog gets thousands of fans
    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2011-02/16/content_12022410.htm




    second, thats a big IF. China doesnt care about being anything besides a strong China. there are some who wish for a return to same level as previous dynastys, but thats about it. even if that was a goal, Japan isnt the one standing in China's way.
     

Share This Page