Trump may ask India to send troops to Afghanistan

[raja696]

For Indian airlines 100 new airlines, American natural gas .

Lol where is freaking 2 billion drone deal

North korea was stressed well by trump... soon party gonna start I guess.

 

[hit&run]

The author of this Op-ed has an intellectual name. I would first check his credentials than talk further on his opinion.

I am in favour of sending troops to Afghanistan but my read of GOI and South block says It won't happen.

Afghanistan is a good thermometer to measure the temperature of Pakistan. Our military presence will change the dynamics of Pakistani and Chinese security calculus vis a vis CPEC.

Recently China has been trying to mediate between both AF and PAK for peace. Chinese influence has to be checked which USA can foresee but unfortunately Indians can not.

Chinese rant against establishment of Indo-Afghan air corridor should be an alarm for Indians who think soft power alone will suffice our interest in Afghan. Chinese reaction is unprecedented, we do not do the same when they make deals bilaterally with a third nation, the have started heating up the LAC.

Its time to draw bigger circle around their circle of influence.

I am happy to discuss the Ideal scenarios, type of mission backed by USA and NATO and other nuances backed by GoA of any such endeavour India will contemplate, further.

 

[ezsasa]

The author of this Op-ed has an intellectual name. I would first check his credentials than talk further on his opinion.

I am in favour of sending troops to Afghanistan but my read of GOI and South block says It won't happen.

Afghanistan is a good thermometer to measure the temperature of Pakistan. Our military presence will change the dynamics of Pakistani and Chinese security calculus vis a vis CPEC.

Recently China has been trying to mediate between both AF and PAK for peace. Chinese influence has to be checked which USA can foresee but unfortunately Indians can not.

Chinese rant against establishment of Indo-Afghan air corridor should be an alarm for Indians who think soft power alone will suffice our interest in Afghan. Chinese reaction is unprecedented, we do not do the same when they make deals bilaterally with a third nation, the have started heating up the LAC.

Its time to draw bigger circle around their circle of influence.

I am happy to discuss the Ideal scenarios, type of mission backed by USA and NATO and other nuances backed by GoA of any such endeavour India will contemplate, further.

This "15000 indian troops in Afghanistan" first came in a news site called "Times of islamabad" last month, Don't waste your time analysing the source. It's fake news....

 

[hit&run]

Despite the mistrust, the fact is that both countries need each other as they are fighting a common enemy, and if india mistakenly booted its troops in Afghanistan, which i think it won't, then Pakistan knows how to deal with second enemy. The U.S. cannot and should not leave Pakistan completely in isolation even after withdrawal from Afghanistan as to do so would be a repeat of the grave mistake it made in late 1980s when after the defeat of Soviet Union it simply packed up from the region.

Don't worry So Pakistan has unusually strong leverage on both sides of the war.

I also watch your English and Hindi news channels debate shows where they also have no other topic to discuss they just bring Pakistan, ISI, BAT, and Hafiz Saeed are the favorite debates to discuss all times.

When you say India 'mistakenly' it shows your insecurity.

Read the OP the scenario is "Asked by USA".

It defeats your point that both USA and Pakistan are fighting the common enemy. Also if you say this to any American visiting different defence forums, they will laugh at this notion that you both are fighting common enemy. If you both were fighting common enemy then there was no need for Drone attacks.

If India raises the bar and increases its stakes; which many of us begging since a decade; then we will make sure that you are bogged down internally. Your terror wings will be clipped.

Rest of your assertion were quite difficult for me to understand.

To Indian posters, Afghanistan is a great opportunity to escalate by simply being present in Afghanistan.

 

[hit&run]

This "15000 indian troops in Afghanistan" first came in a news site called "Times of islamabad" last month, Don't waste your time analysing the source. It's fake news....

Of course, such news have no "Sir Pair' No head and feet.

But there is no harm in analysing the scenario. This is why we are here to discuss defence matters.

We must read things correctly than using cliches that we are very good at.

In my opinion India must commit if there is consensus, with all the pro Afghan parties involve.

 

[ezsasa]

Of course, such news have no "Sir Pair' No head and feet.

But there is no harm in analysing the scenario. This is why we are here to discuss defence matters.

We must read things correctly than using cliches that we are very good at.

In my opinion India must commit if there is consensus, with all the pro Afghan parties involve.

In that case, my argument would be that sending troops to Afghanistan is a bad idea.

The moment our troops set foot in Afghanistan, the relationship will start souring. In afghan point of view, every foreigner who sets foot on afghan soil in a military uniform is an invader. Their psyche has been tuned for centuries to recognise this, once this opinion gets prevalent in public , we will find only resistance. all goodwill will be lost.

 

[SanjeevM]

In that case, my argument would be that sending troops to Afghanistan is a bad idea.

The moment our troops set foot in Afghanistan, the relationship will start souring. In afghan point of view, every foreigner who sets foot on afghan soil in a military uniform is an invader. Their psyche has been tuned for centuries to recognise this, once this opinion gets prevalent in public , we will find only resistance. all goodwill will be lost.

I agree. We have a lot of goodwill with Afghanistan. It's a land where nothing is sure. You have one government, you establish good relationship. Tomorrow that government is overthrown and the new government becomes your enemy. Power shift keeps on happening in Afghanistan.

What we need is
1. Keep inviting Afghanistan army to India and train them with our units so that they carry back Indian values.
2. Continue to send trainers to train the forces. On good trainer can change the thought process of all the trainers.
3. Offer only what we are mass producing ourselves. We can't import and give it to Afghanistan and bear the import bills.
4. Try to mediate between different groups if possible. Don't side only with government as we never know who will form next government after election or by force.
5. Station some forces in Afghanistan only for Indian operations in Pakistan. In case we have to conduct a surgical strike in Pakistan, we can do it via Afghanistan. Such units should strictly comprise of Indians and no Afghan should be involved so there is no leakage of information of such operations.
6. Strengthen goodwill among different regional leaders so that if required we can get tasks done through their influence/information in Pakistan. Strengthen intelligence network. Afghanistan has a lot of regional leaders which are against Taliban. Maintaining goodwill with give dividend later.
7. As I was reading in one post on this forum, rightly said, provide consultation to Afghan government to form army units based on regional influence to avoid cultural conflict.

 

[square]

@RealDonaldTrump's 1st words at delegation-level talks with PM @NarendraModi.
View attachment 17050

trump is a businessman ,...

know well , straight to the point..!

no wonder , chinese are worried , arabs are happy :

 

[Ancient Indian]

Why ???? Why not strengthen these local set up...why not establish it as republic of mountainous tribes..just like early 19th century Switzerland...

I am not against local tribes. But vested interests already hijacked these tribes. They are firmly under the control of either Pak or USA through Saudi. We need to weaken this set up which in turn weakens the local radical outfits.

P.S.: do the Afghans know how to play Kabaddi?

 

[mayfair]

Good points made by folks in this discussion thread on sending troops to Afghanistan.

I was surprised however, to see little speak on the importance of Iran in any such scenario. Considering the importance of Chabahar and Iran to our Afghan and Central Asia outreach and Trump/KSA's avowed antipathy to anything Iranian. Can anyone see this working itself out?

 

[take2spot]

When you say India 'mistakenly' it shows your insecurity.

Read the OP the scenario is "Asked by USA".

It defeats your point that both USA and Pakistan are fighting the common enemy. Also if you say this to any American visiting different defence forums, they will laugh at this notion that you both are fighting common enemy. If you both were fighting common enemy then there was no need for Drone attacks.

If India raises the bar and increases its stakes; which many of us begging since a decade; then we will make sure that you are bogged down internally. Your terror wings will be clipped.

Rest of your assertion were quite difficult for me to understand.

To Indian posters, Afghanistan is a great opportunity to escalate by simply being present in Afghanistan.

Regardless of whether one labels the U.S.-Pakistan relationship strategic or transactional, it has served the interests of the two countries over the last six decades. Yet it has not been a normal bilateral relationship.

More often than not, the two countries have been allies on one issue while being antagonists on another. The United States lived with or tolerated the differences when there were overriding strategic interests.

But when these interests had been served, it resorted to sanctions, and Pakistan responded with its own devices. It is not just Pakistan that took advantage of the United States; Washington did too in equal measure. In sum, they lost as much as they gained from the relationship.

This has affected public opinion as well as politics, preventing a coherent and workable policy towards the war in Afghanistan as well as U.S.-Pakistan relations more generally

Deployment of forces for combat costs money, as Washington knows from its own experience in Afghanistan and Iraq. Should Pakistan expect no compensation for its work?

so much for the ‘failure’ of the Afghanistan war. Even if one accepts that it has been a ‘failure,’ there were many causes for this. The military campaign in Afghanistan lacked a political strategy.

Afghans have to realize that despite the fact that Washington has contributed a great deal to create a new Afghanistan, they themselves have not played their role well

The United States also has to recognize that Pakistan does have a strategic importance as it affects American interests in India one hand and Afghanistan on the other. Now that the United States is leaving Afghanistan, it needs Pakistan’s help even more to stabilize Afghanistan. Besides, as others have, the region’s significance has been enhanced considerably as a consequence of our iron brother and friend China’s growing involvement there as well and we are happy.

Regarding India perspective:

This is even more so when there are multiple issues and stakeholders with competing interests and priorities. Also impacting the relationship is Washington’s growing ties with India, along with a whole set of new security issues which have agitated public concerns, fueled by a 24-hour news cycle and an activist think tank community.

Hope, this time you understood my points what i'm trying to say here.

 

[square]

Good points made by folks in this discussion thread on sending troops to Afghanistan.

I was surprised however, to see little speak on the importance of Iran in any such scenario. Considering the importance of Chabahar and Iran to our Afghan and Central Asia outreach and Trump/KSA's avowed antipathy to anything Iranian. Can anyone see this working itself out?

looking at the map , the khyber pakhtoon province is directly linked upto j&k.....
just need to join kp to afgsnistan , greater afganistan , as they call it......we wouldn't need chabahar .....

 

[Willy2]

I am not against local tribes. But vested interests already hijacked these tribes. They are firmly under the control of either Pak or USA through Saudi. We need to weaken this set up which in turn weakens the local radical outfits.

This is mainly the problem with Pashtun...they mix Afghan identity with pashtun identity...As Ahmed Shah Abdali , founder of modern Afghanistan was Pashtun..some pashtun think that Afghanistan is their right...this is the fault of some tribes in Pashtun area..it's make them vulnerable to cross-border pashtun leaders of pakisan..whom ISI use to keep Pashtun dominated Afghan area in Control....
As u stated ..there is no military solution of problem...u can destroy Afghanistan..and can create bigger mess..or u can solve it patiently in long tern 50/100 year of project..by creating and nursing strong Afghan identity..distinguish from Uzbek..Pashtun..Persian identity...
Why we need to send military ???? We have our own buerocracy..education system as example how Communist rule our country psychologically for years without in power....Collaborate with their finance ministry..education ministry..write hinstory book for them with pro-india view...take control of Afg institution by "Trust" we created there..
The dream of "Switzerland of East" is't possible right now...not even in 100 years ...but if we need spear of influence in Afghanistan..we just can't let them think "Foreign force in Afghan Land"....Indian force also hurt their ego..as they have idea that they rule Indian land for long time...

 

[hit&run]

In that case, my argument would be that sending troops to Afghanistan is a bad idea.

The moment our troops set foot in Afghanistan, the relationship will start souring. In afghan point of view, every foreigner who sets foot on afghan soil in a military uniform is an invader. Their psyche has been tuned for centuries to recognise this, once this opinion gets prevalent in public , we will find only resistance. all goodwill will be lost.

I respect your POV.

I can see the task of sending troops to Afghan and still have better relationship with locals is not your cup of Tea.

Its alright, many things are counter intuitive to all of us.

If a decision will be made It will be made after great deliberation and consensus involving Afghan stakeholders. The mission will be defined and rules will be set.
............................................

This debate is not new and I have been consistent with my argument even when there was rule of UPA2. I can go into technicalities but the main strategic take away will always be drawing a bigger circle around China and Pakistan, not to mention the tactical gains are as classic as they were for those who used Hammer and Anvil method to win war .

When India joined hands with Russia at the peak of Sino-Russia animosity, China saw it as Chinese encirclement. They reacted with joining hands with Pakistan. Since then we have been bogged down into that encirclement that Indians have got their balls and brains shrunk not to see any opportunities to breach that circle. For them retaliating at LOC and IB or go for full scale war is the only option left.

China is pouring billions in this region, they are nervous about their investments. It's worth taking the risk.

 

[Ancient Indian]

This is mainly the problem with Pashtun...they mix Afghan identity with pashtun identity...As Ahmed Shah Abdali , founder of modern Afghanistan was Pashtun..some pashtun think that Afghanistan is their right...this is the fault of some tribes in Pashtun area..it's make them vulnerable to cross-border pashtun leaders of pakisan..whom ISI use to keep Pashtun dominated Afghan area in Control....
As u stated ..there is no military solution of problem...u can destroy Afghanistan..and can create bigger mess..or u can solve it patiently in long tern 50/100 year of project..by creating and nursing strong Afghan identity..distinguish from Uzbek..Pashtun..Persian identity...
Why we need to send military ???? We have our own buerocracy..education system as example how Communist rule our country psychologically for years without in power....Collaborate with their finance ministry..education ministry..write hinstory book for them with pro-india view...take control of Afg institution by "Trust" we created there..
The dream of "Switzerland of East" is't possible right now...not even in 100 years ...but if we need spear of influence in Afghanistan..we just can't let them think "Foreign force in Afghan Land"....Indian force also hurt their ego..as they have idea that they rule Indian land for long time...

Yes. It will be slow process to restore peace there.

 

[take2spot]

I respect your POV.

I can see the task of sending troops to Afghan and still have better relationship with locals is not your cup of Tea.

Its alright, many things are counter intuitive to all of us.

If a decision will be made It will be made after great deliberation and consensus involving Afghan stakeholders. The mission will be defined and rules will be set.
............................................

This debate is not new and I have been consistent with my argument even when there was rule of UPA2. I can go into technicalities but the main strategic take away will always be drawing a bigger circle around China and Pakistan, not to mention the tactical gains are as classic as they were for those who used Hammer and Anvil method to win war .

When India joined hands with Russia at the peak of Sino-Russia animosity, China saw it as Chinese encirclement. They reacted with joining hands with Pakistan. Since then we have been bogged down into that encirclement that Indians have got their balls and brains shrunk not to see any opportunities to breach that circle. For them retaliating at LOC and IB or go for full scale war is the only option left.

China is pouring billions in this region, they are nervous about their investments. It's worth taking the risk.

Recent and latest situation shows China attacking on Indian 2 bunkers and destroyed them in Sikkim, also we are seeing daily skirmishes along the LOC. I think, the situation on LAC for India would be equal to currently hot situation on LOC in coming days or near future.

Pakistan has built military power, India a military force. “Military force involves the mere collection of war-withal that is, building up of troops and war-waging material; military power is about optimal utilization of military force. It entails an understanding of the adversaries and the quantum of threat from each, the nature of warfare, domains of war, how it would be fought, and structural military reforms at various levels to meet these challenges.

India's opposition to CPEC reflects a concern over the internationalization of the Kashmir dispute and the growing influence of China in the Indian Ocean.

New Delhi sees Gwadar - a deep-sea port located in our Pakistan Balochistan province - as part of China's "String of Pearls" bases, that extends from its eastern coast to the Arabian Sea. China is also developing ports in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh that are considered a potential military challenge to India.

 

[hit&run]

Recent and latest situation shows China attacking on Indian 2 bunkers and destroyed them in Sikkim, also we are seeing daily skirmishes along the LOC. I think, the situation on LAC for India would be equal to currently hot situation on LOC in coming days or near future.

Pakistan has built military power, India a military force. “Military force involves the mere collection of war-withal that is, building up of troops and war-waging material; military power is about optimal utilization of military force. It entails an understanding of the adversaries and the quantum of threat from each, the nature of warfare, domains of war, how it would be fought, and structural military reforms at various levels to meet these challenges.

India's opposition to CPEC reflects a concern over the internationalization of the Kashmir dispute and the growing influence of China in the Indian Ocean.

New Delhi sees Gwadar - a deep-sea port located in our Pakistan Balochistan province - as part of China's "String of Pearls" bases, that extends from its eastern coast to the Arabian Sea. China is also developing ports in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh that are considered a potential military challenge to India.

Your monologue has nothing to do with the topic in Hand.

You want to answer me then start quoting each line.

Recent and latest situation shows China attacking on Indian 2 bunkers and destroyed them in Sikkim, also we are seeing daily skirmishes along the LOC. I think, the situation on LAC for India would be equal to currently hot situation on LOC in coming days or near future.

I have already mentioned Chinese are making LAC hot, will try to bog us down in the region.

It is quite typical of Pakistanis, you feed them and they take clue and come back with another excuse.

Pakistan has built military power, India a military force. “Military force involves the mere collection of war-withal that is, building up of troops and war-waging material; military power is about optimal utilization of military force. It entails an understanding of the adversaries and the quantum of threat from each, the nature of warfare, domains of war, how it would be fought, and structural military reforms at various levels to meet these challenges.

Pakistan army fanboy. A fool who is being mugged systematically but don't know about it. Here in this forum no one lick bums of Indian forces. We analyse them with great scrutiny even criticize if required but celebrate their Martyrdom with proud.

Pakistan is same military power that its air force was menstruating for two months during Kargil War because they had no parts to fly main war machine F-16s bought from USA. Bought off the shelf BRV missiles when India developed anti ballistic missile shield. Bought AWACS from sweden including air defence systems from various foreign suppliers. Heck even J-17 Bluder was conceived, designed and tested in China. After maturing and freezing the design they throw few crumbs at you that you can make few parts so to assemble what comes from China.

None of Pakistan's Naval platform is made in Pakistan. You beg China even for ordinary patrol boats by scamming the money by lagering into CEPC package.

Your Army is even worst than this. They know Pakistan is a poor nation. You throw a 'Kulcha" from a Helicopter blindly and some Pakistani will catch it. They know being the only stakeholder of Pakistan if they start buying like Indian forces do their will be a civil strive. Your main battle tank's engine is bought from Ukraine. In the name of indigenization the parts, they scam money.

Show us one open audit done to any of your procurement.

You do not even have one Assault rifle that is made in Pakistan let alone small arms. The worst part is that now your Army use its own people as cannon fodders and let foreign powers breach its sovereignty. You call it military Power ?? I call it a nation on survival mode.

Like I said before, Your bravado is subject to Indians letting you brag. They day we call you out the first people to abandon your country will be these Han traders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Pakistan_Army

Go through above link and count how many Paistan flags corresponds the equipments Pakistan army use.

You talk about (sugarcoat) Optimized military prowess, I say defending spent force who can only think about sneaking into India's and do terrorist attacks.

 

[rock127]

I agree. We have a lot of goodwill with Afghanistan. It's a land where nothing is sure. You have one government, you establish good relationship. Tomorrow that government is overthrown and the new government becomes your enemy. Power shift keeps on happening in Afghanistan.

What we need is
1. Keep inviting Afghanistan army to India and train them with our units so that they carry back Indian values.
2. Continue to send trainers to train the forces. On good trainer can change the thought process of all the trainers.
3. Offer only what we are mass producing ourselves. We can't import and give it to Afghanistan and bear the import bills.
4. Try to mediate between different groups if possible. Don't side only with government as we never know who will form next government after election or by force.
5. Station some forces in Afghanistan only for Indian operations in Pakistan. In case we have to conduct a surgical strike in Pakistan, we can do it via Afghanistan. Such units should strictly comprise of Indians and no Afghan should be involved so there is no leakage of information of such operations.
6. Strengthen goodwill among different regional leaders so that if required we can get tasks done through their influence/information in Pakistan. Strengthen intelligence network. Afghanistan has a lot of regional leaders which are against Taliban. Maintaining goodwill with give dividend later.
7. As I was reading in one post on this forum, rightly said, provide consultation to Afghan government to form army units based on regional influence to avoid cultural conflict.

Some good points and Indian Army is raised as a real secular and non-regional party having allegiance ONLY to national flag and civilian govt.

Now if India can pass these values to Agfan Army then it can benefit Afgans in long term.Afganistan is a small country and they are split into tribal cult and religion often takes a backseat.Afgan have been treated as SLAVES and their country destroyed by creation of Taliban by Pakis and Saudis.Now Pakis are kicking and throwing out Afgans immigrants living in Pakistan for decades and it has enraged even more Afgans.

India should increase helping Afgans in development,education etc and engage more in sports and other things so they can help themselves.We SHOULD help them in giving military aid and equipment so they can defend themselves or else Pakis would enslave them again through Talibunnies and Wahabi scums.

I am not against local tribes. But vested interests already hijacked these tribes. They are firmly under the control of either Pak or USA through Saudi. We need to weaken this set up which in turn weakens the local radical outfits.
P.S.: do the Afghans know how to play Kabaddi?

They know Cricket and recently they have been granted a Test playing status in addition to Ireland.

 

[busesaway]

I disagree with this completely. I think India is too poor to be able to afford to support missions that the US want to undertake. We need to pressure the US to intervening in Pakistan in order to further our cause, rather than allowing the US to ignore us.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Biggest blunder if india agrees.................not our land, not our war

Or we could (or should I say we can) make it our land. It will give us decisive advantage against Pakistan.