Top guns and flop guns: Indian Air Force 'beats RAF 12-0 in training exercise'

Scalieback

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Is this the best you came up with? Now I am feeling sad for you. A proud soldier (?) reduced to a teenager with nothing to add to the topic.
I'm sure you said "Since we have nothing more to talk about;" and were off? Oh well, more trolling.
We won, you lost, move on and stop being pissy about it.
In other news in the real world, real people realised what went on and got on with the real stuff rather than touting 'fan boy' wibblings.

You are not the first one to do that. Americans are still in shock that IAF Bisons "shot" their F-15s. So all your huffing and puffing is useless.
So I hear. They weren't used to it. The person you 'dissed' on Arrse mentioned it. See, that's how you have a logical conversation, with someone who knows what they're talking about rather than 'fan boy willy waving.'

If you still want Maths tuition, we have many engineers here on this forum.
Passed earlier this year for promotion thanks. Nothing wrong with my maths unlike yours or the 'pants on fire' reporters.
whit? Is that Queen's English Sire? Because whit has a completely different meaning here.
Clearly. Love spelling Nazi's, they're like the Nazi fan boys on here. Strange really, Indian Nazi's....
It's funny when Brits think they are not racists. Don't worry, I'll tag you the next time IAF beats RAF, 12-0 or better.
Like only white people can be racist you mean?
Sire your snobbishness is showing, please cover it with a tarp.
When you debate like an adult.......
Again, your best?

Losing the argument and calling someone "you must be him."

Changes made in the aircraft does not change its primary design and role it was intended for. But since you are from ARRSE so no argument there.
You (and he) said they were trainers. Like the Hawk is a trainer? Like Mig 21's are now trainers?

I never entered that discussion. No need, he was promptly shot down (see what I did there)
Now your are merely repeating your words and I am bored. I think old age is getting to you.
Good, perhaps you'll go like you mentioned earlier
Churchill giving two finger salute is very original of you. So pot, kettle, well you get the point or do I have to make another one of those unoriginal quips?
Say or do what you want. Pixels on a screen. Schoolboy name calling.
Then, it's his fault. Hardly changes the topic at hand. But you are free to dwell on that. Again, I don't mind.
Clearly you do or you wouldn't bother to answer me.

If you think RM training in Norway is same as high altitude training, then good for you. But then again, British army also thinks that Pen y Fan is a challenging terrain.
I've been up the 'fan loads of times. the third time after 20km carrying 55lb's is quite hard. then again the nearest you've been to an arduous course was walking to the train station.

The point that RM do high altitude trg in mountainous regions seems to be lost on you.

No, it does not make RAF regiment and it does not change the fact that RAF was beaten 12-0 at their very own turf.
Yeah, okay. Repeated as above: In other news in the real world, real people realised what went on and got on with the real stuff rather than touting 'fan boy' wibblings.
It never even began but whatever floats your boat.
Your drivel is quite blatant, but I'll repeat myself, never stop seeking the truth. It is there, just try and read what has been said by people who were there.
 

blueblood

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I'm sure you said "Since we have nothing more to talk about;" and were off? Oh well, more trolling.
And yet you posted a rebuttal. Let me help you with something that you don't understand. Unlike you, fanboys like myself are excellent at trolling so please do not insult me by saying "Oh well, more trolling."

If you think I was trolling you for this entire time, you are in for a rude awakening.

In other news in the real world, real people realised what went on and got on with the real stuff rather than touting 'fan boy' wibblings.
And still here you are, all pissy.

So I hear. They weren't used to it. The person you 'dissed' on Arrse mentioned it. See, that's how you have a logical conversation, with someone who knows what they're talking about rather than 'fan boy willy waving.'
Funny, because I remember saying that IAF knows Typhoon inside out. I guess IAF is also not used to it.

The person I "dissed" fails to comprehend just like you that IAF learned a lot from the past exercises and used MKI for what it was designed for i.e. using its TVC, superior ITR, HMD and R-73 combination to bring down the enemy fighter.

RAF received its first HMD in 2011, IAF had that tech since 1980s.

Apparently, in your "real world" IAF is destined never to learn from its mistakes.

I have to ask, what's with you and boys and their willies? If you are obsessed with willies, this is not the site you are looking for.

Passed earlier this year for promotion thanks.
Congratulations. May I ask your rank? My great grandfather and grandfather served in British Indian army and very little information if any information is left of their service record. Ancestral home got robbed in absence of its residents. Could you help me that?

Nothing wrong with my maths unlike yours or the 'pants on fire' reporters.
Not your call to make.

Clearly. Love spelling Nazi's, they're like the Nazi fan boys on here. Strange really, Indian Nazi's....
Just imitating you. You know highest form of flattery and all that.

Like only white people can be racist you mean?
No, but only white people say;

I am not a racist but...

When you debate like an adult.......
Welcome to the internet. Calling everyone else a teenager is the mark of a true officer and a gentleman.

You (and he) said they were trainers. Like the Hawk is a trainer? Like Mig 21's are now trainers?
Gnat - yes
Hawk - yes
Mig 21 - no

Not that difficult to understand, now is it?

Mig-21s are now trainers? Did I mention that?

I never entered that discussion. No need, he was promptly shot down (see what I did there)
Wow, great word play. Tipping my imaginary hat to you.

Good, perhaps you'll go like you mentioned earlier
Yet here we are because you chose to have this conversation and your "willy waving". That is a really funny thing to say.

Say or do what you want. Pixels on a screen. Schoolboy name calling.
And your words are what? Eleventh commandment I presume.

Again with the "boy". Wrong forum sir.

Clearly you do or you wouldn't bother to answer me.
Why wouldn't I? As I said, I don't mind. You have your la la land and I have this forum.

I've been up the 'fan loads of times. the third time after 20km carrying 55lb's is quite hard. then again the nearest you've been to an arduous course was walking to the train station.
You are too kind. Nearest railway station is 6kms and I have never walked there and Metro will take another decade in my city.

Again, personal attacks are the mark of a true officer and a gentleman.

The point that RM do high altitude trg in mountainous regions seems to be lost on you.
The difference between your definition of high altitude and mine is huge. IIRC Indian army considers 15000 feet and above to be high altitude warfare.

Just like 32 degrees is not a heat wave but just 6 degrees above room temperature, mostly a pleasant one. Hopefully, now you understand the difference.

(edit: changed 4 to 6)

Yeah, okay. Repeated as above: In other news in the real world, real people realised what went on and got on with the real stuff rather than touting 'fan boy' wibblings.
Ahh, the "bloody civilian" syndrome. In this "real" world, MKI shoots down Typhoon in WVR for the reasons I mentioned above. In your "real" world RAF is invincible.

Your drivel is quite blatant, but I'll repeat myself, never stop seeking the truth. It is there, just try and read what has been said by people who were there.
Read this post again from top to bottom.
 
Last edited:

Scalieback

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And yet you posted a rebuttal. Let me help you with something that you don't understand. Unlike you, fanboys like myself are excellent at trolling so please do not insult me by saying "Oh well, more trolling."
If you feel the need to troll, do so. Adults think it's pathetic

If you think I was trolling you for this entire time, you are in for a rude awakening.
Go for it 'fan boy'
And still here you are, all pissy.
Pissy? Oh dear, teddy got lost when you threw it out of the cot did it?
Funny, because I remember saying that IAF knows Typhoon inside out. I guess IAF is also not used to it.

The person I "dissed" fails to comprehend just like you that IAF learned a lot from the past exercises and used MKI for what it was designed for i.e. using its TVC, superior ITR, HMD and R-73 combination to bring down the enemy fighter.

RAF received its first HMD in 2011, IAF had that tech since 1980s.

Apparently, in your "real world" IAF is destined never to learn from its mistakes.

I have to ask, what's with you and boys and their willies? If you are obsessed with willies, this is not the site you are looking for.
He was there. you weren't. He has experience in the field. you don't. What is your military experience? BTW, Xbox and other consoles don't apply

This isn't the site for a serious discussion for a start. sad really. Like the pilots, we could learn a lot from each other

Congratulations. May I ask your rank? My great grandfather and grandfather served in British Indian army and very little information if any information is left of their service record. Ancestral home got robbed in absence of its residents. Could you help me that?
WO2. Not you based on your comments. I would a person who wanted to discuss proper things.

Not your call to make.
To call him a liar? Easily my call.

Just imitating you. You know highest form of flattery and all that.
Not bad. 4/10, must try harder.
No, but only white people say;

I am not a racist but...
They're not, but then I despise that phrase.
Welcome to the internet. Calling everyone else a teenager is the mark of a true officer and a gentleman.
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, speaks like a duck, it's a ????
Gnat - yes
Hawk - yes
Mig 21 - no

Not that difficult to understand, now is it?

Mig-21s are now trainers? Did I mention that?
Talked about the LanceR's IIRC. There's a difference between a Hawk trainer and a Hawk equipped for use as FGA as you know. As for your original point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Ajeet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folland_Gnat
No mention of numerical superiority either. Funny that.
Wow, great word play. Tipping my imaginary hat to you.
Now you know how it's done.
Yet here we are because you chose to have this conversation and your "willy waving". That is a really funny thing to say.
I'm not 'fan boy' 'willy waving' I leave that for the likes of you and all of the other spotty computer geeks on here.. I dislike the RAF and have said so for numerous reasons.

And your words are what? Eleventh commandment I presume.

Again with the "boy". Wrong forum sir.
You clearly can't see the difference. If you can't, there is no hope. As for the site, no. Rarely does it have anything to interest me like women, decent jokes, talking about old kit, women, red headed women, whinging about illegals, Europe, women and oh did I mention women? No, it has little appeal.

Why wouldn't I? As I said, I don't mind. You have your la la land and I have this forum.
thought you said you were leaving? Are your pants also on fire?
You are too kind. Nearest railway station is 6kms and I have never walked there and Metro will take another decade in my city.

Again, personal attacks are the mark of a true officer and a gentleman.
So, you've never served. Who said I was an officer and a gentleman?
The difference between your definition of high altitude and mine is huge. IIRC Indian army considers 15000 feet and above to be high altitude warfare.
Where would you expect RM to do high altitude training? I'm really unsure what your point on this is?

Just like 32 degrees is not a heat wave but just 4 degrees above room temperature, mostly a pleasant one. Hopefully, now you understand the difference.
I do, been in high forties. Carried the kit in high forties. Been in the mountains as well to your north west. Have you? Been in the same place at minus twenty. Have you? Trying to 'teach' me things like that just show your bias and failure in education.
Ahh, the "bloody civilian" syndrome. In this "real" world, MKI shoots down Typhoon in WVR for the reasons I mentioned above. In your "real" world RAF is invincible.
Show me where I've said the RAF are invincible. You do (like many others) like putting words in my mouth.
Read this post again from top to bottom.
More drivel and a distinct lack of knowledge. Next
 

blueblood

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Talking to you is a very futile exercise. In the last few pages, all I gathered was your favourite words which makes pretty much sums up all your posts;

  • willy waving
  • fan boy
  • school boy
  • teenager
  • drivel
  • real world
Few other facts;
  • You know a guy named "Magic Mushroom".
  • Every single post of yours in this thread is about "his word is my command".
  • You have no clue whatsoever about aerial warfare and platforms and your blatant refusal to learn something is astonishing.
  • You like to do personal attacks when you run out of arguments. Makes you look like an inarticulate.
  • You are suffering from a severe case of "bloody civilian" syndrome.
  • You think calling someone a fanboy is insulting which let me make it clear, it is not. Well, not for us fan boys anyways.
  • And you love to dish it out but have no stomach for taking.
One last thing, crawl out of your ARRSE and learn something.

http://theboresight.blogspot.in/2009/07/swirl-of-controversy-cope-india-and-red.html
 

Scalieback

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Talking to you is a very futile exercise. In the last few pages, all I gathered was your favourite words which makes pretty much sums up all your posts;

  • willy waving
  • fan boy
  • school boy
  • teenager
  • drivel
  • real world
If the cap fits...........
Few other facts;
  • You know a guy named "Magic Mushroom".
  • Every single post of yours in this thread is about "his word is my command".
  • You have no clue whatsoever about aerial warfare and platforms and your blatant refusal to learn something is astonishing.
  • You like to do personal attacks when you run out of arguments. Makes you look like an inarticulate.
  • You are suffering from a severe case of "bloody civilian" syndrome.
  • You think calling someone a fanboy is insulting which let me make it clear, it is not. Well, not for us fan boys anyways.
  • And you love to dish it out but have no stomach for taking.
You really don't have a clue. Read some of the answers I've given. As for 'taking it' from day one. Always the same. Nothing new.
When you grow up, you'll realise I've paid compliments to the IAF as have other posters on Arrse who were on the ex. Despite being a blog, that link only reiterates the points I've been saying but you refuse to accept.

Time for you to either realise what I've been saying or go and sulk in the corner. I'm not bothered which frankly.
 

pmaitra

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Talking to you is a very futile exercise. In the last few pages, all I gathered was your favourite words which makes pretty much sums up all your posts;

  • willy waving
  • fan boy
  • school boy
  • teenager
  • drivel
  • real world
Few other facts;
  • You know a guy named "Magic Mushroom".
  • Every single post of yours in this thread is about "his word is my command".
  • You have no clue whatsoever about aerial warfare and platforms and your blatant refusal to learn something is astonishing.
  • You like to do personal attacks when you run out of arguments. Makes you look like an inarticulate.
  • You are suffering from a severe case of "bloody civilian" syndrome.
  • You think calling someone a fanboy is insulting which let me make it clear, it is not. Well, not for us fan boys anyways.
  • And you love to dish it out but have no stomach for taking.
One last thing, crawl out of your ARRSE and learn something.

http://theboresight.blogspot.in/2009/07/swirl-of-controversy-cope-india-and-red.html
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
I have been thinking of posting something like this. Bravo!

If the Whirlpool continues to leak soap water, I might actually get down to doing it. :tongue2:

Apropos the link, my thoughts:
  • The USAF certainly treasures the exercises with the IAF, as they probably made sure they did not show their full potential, while learning as much as they could about Russian airplanes.
  • An alternative proposition would be that the USAF deliberately downplayed their performance to create a sense of gap in preparedness, with the objective of motivating the Congress to release more funds for the USAF. Nothing works like fearmongering.
  • Coming to larger radar and longer range weapons, I think the longer range weapon is the pertinent point. A larger radar will travel some distance to the enemy, and twice that distance as it travels to the enemy and returns back. Also, one must keep in mind the attenuation of radar signals to the tune of the square of the distance.
  • Colonel Terrence Fornof's comments pose more questions than they answer. I call it the fog of pseudo-war.
  • I would strongly agree that the MiG-21, even today, can be a formidable enemy. We tend to underestimate the MiG-21 like some underestimate the AK-47. Opinions are like the sphincter - everyone has one.
 

blueblood

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@pmaitra , for him aerial warfare is uncharted territory, so he relies on hearsay but not on the facts at hand. I have seen this happen many times in other forums too. Service members across the board have a limited understanding of other sister services.

The only difference is that they try to learn and understand when argued logically and do not resort to name calling and personal attacks.
 

blue marlin

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Four Indian Sukhoi-30 MKIs and one Ilyushin-78 fuel tanker stopped at Saudi Arabia and thereafter in Greece, on their way to UK for air exercises, where they trumped the British Typhoons.
not really, when the iaf did the exercises with the raf they beat tranche 1 typhoons in some aspects. iaf officials boasted about this a lot. but when we released our information both sides did not match up. after this the iaf officails stopped boasting and never mentioned it again. if we chose to use our trance 3 typhoons. they will beat the mki in nearly all aspects. later versions will have an enhanced ea and tv. but thats later variants. but that does not mean the mki is not a good plane. it's very good, but i have doubts about the engine. also isnt the mki similar/almost the same to the mkm? why does the mki have problems and the mkm doesn't ? finally i read that the iaf is upgrading the Ilyushin-76 with some new stuff which includes new engines. is the Ilyushin-78 also in the process of being upgraded too?
 

pmaitra

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not really, when the iaf did the exercises with the raf they beat tranche 1 typhoons in some aspects. iaf officials boasted about this a lot. but when we released our information both sides did not match up. after this the iaf officails stopped boasting and never mentioned it again. if we chose to use our trance 3 typhoons. they will beat the mki in nearly all aspects. later versions will have an enhanced ea and tv. but thats later variants. but that does not mean the mki is not a good plane. it's very good, but i have doubts about the engine. also isnt the mki similar/almost the same to the mkm? why does the mki have problems and the mkm doesn't ? finally i read that the iaf is upgrading the Ilyushin-76 with some new stuff which includes new engines. is the Ilyushin-78 also in the process of being upgraded too?
Debated ad nauseam. Moved your post to the relevant thread. Please read it and let me know if there is something new you have to add.
 

Punya Pratap

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Even though I am mighty "chuffed" with the results, I am a bit circumspect regarding the 12-0 scoreline simply because the scores were not attributed or quoted by Group Captain Srivastav. This is exactly what the RAF official rebuttal to the article was, i.e. that this news article was for domestic consumption by the desi journos! Also note IAF has not officially released any statement regarding the same but Mr Som has put out this scoreline on his end for which he is willing to stick his neck out!

Frankly speaking when there is a concrete statement to be put in print the method employed by the journalists the world over is to QUOTE the informant or the person interviewed. And no where in the article is GC Srivastav QUOTED as saying that his boys trumped RAF Typhoon's 12-0 instead he says their performance was "exceptional"

Having said that let me tell you @ Scalieback @blue marlin that the IAF pilots in their MKI's do things you wont believe until you see them since I see them plenty living in Jodhpur where the skies rock with the MKI's doing their tangos!!
 

blueblood

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@Punya Pratap

  • Vishnu Som is not one of your average run of mill journo. He knows what he is talking about.
  • Officers not speaking is a sign of a professional force unlike some where even Air chiefs couldn't keep their mouth shut.
  • There is little to no info about Cope India 2005 and 2006. This silence speaks volumes about the results.



:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

Courtesy: gadeshi
 

blue marlin

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Even though I am mighty "chuffed" with the results, I am a bit circumspect regarding the 12-0 scoreline simply because the scores were not attributed or quoted by Group Captain Srivastav. This is exactly what the RAF official rebuttal to the article was, i.e. that this news article was for domestic consumption by the desi journos! Also note IAF has not officially released any statement regarding the same but Mr Som has put out this scoreline on his end for which he is willing to stick his neck out!

Frankly speaking when there is a concrete statement to be put in print the method employed by the journalists the world over is to QUOTE the informant or the person interviewed. And no where in the article is GC Srivastav QUOTED as saying that his boys trumped RAF Typhoon's 12-0 instead he says their performance was "exceptional"

Having said that let me tell you @ Scalieback @blue marlin that the IAF pilots in their MKI's do things you wont believe until you see them since I see them plenty living in Jodhpur where the skies rock with the MKI's doing their tangos!!
hi,

let me ask you one thing. do you believe your mki's are better than our eft's? an exercise between two is more of to 77 what skills your opponent has and what you can do to improve on it. the raf has a tendency to restrict the performance of the jet before an exercise with non close allies and the picture above sorts of proves that what we did so ensure we dont show of the eft's true potential. whilst we restrict our planes the iaf did not, they fully demonstrated the mki capabilities but they did not use their radars. the eft's that participated in the exercise were the the older tranche 1. tbh i like the mki but it needs new engines. i have not seen an mki in person, but i would assume they do rock the skies.
 

tsunami

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We have seen in past (Cope India, Red flag and Indradhanush 2007) that IAF also have tendency to restrict the performance of the jet before an exercise. and trust me if RAF is not showing true potential of it's EFT then even IAF would not like to show it's true potential. I don't see any reason for that.

Though UK and partners want to export EFT to many countries, so defiantly they will not like their best bird which they advertise as SU-35 killer beaten by a sibling SU-30 MKI.

On the other hand IAF want to prove to GOI that they are in need of Rafale because MKI can not face upcoming threats. Over all I have many reasons to believe that it was IAF which was undermining it's birds performance not RAF.
 

blueblood

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Restrict what?

Both sides obey ROE and restrictions are mutual.

IAF had complete access to Typhoon during MMRCA trials or someone here thinks that the largest open tender for fighters in the world was done without due diligence. When you are trying to sell $25 billion worth of equipment, you sell it hard.
 

Punya Pratap

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@Punya Pratap

  • Vishnu Som is not one of your average run of mill journo. He knows what he is talking about.
  • Officers not speaking is a sign of a professional force unlike some where even Air chiefs couldn't keep their mouth shut.
  • There is little to no info about Cope India 2005 and 2006. This silence speaks volumes about the results.



:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

Courtesy: gadeshi
I saw this from gadeshi in the MKI thread and I also know that Mr Som enjoys an impeccable reputation but I'm wondering why there's a slanging match going on here over something which the princple parties aren't even acknowledging which is the scoreline..... 12/0 or nothing!

I'm also wondering whether all this won't end up being counter productive when tomorrow nobody would like to hold joint exercises with IAF simply coz the desi journos shoot from the hip.

I believe in the oldest maxim of our religion @blueblood which says humility is a prerequisite to becoming strong otherwise you will end up being an obnoxious bully!
 

Punya Pratap

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hi,

let me ask you one thing. do you believe your mki's are better than our eft's? an exercise between two is more of to 77 what skills your opponent has and what you can do to improve on it. the raf has a tendency to restrict the performance of the jet before an exercise with non close allies and the picture above sorts of proves that what we did so ensure we dont show of the eft's true potential. whilst we restrict our planes the iaf did not, they fully demonstrated the mki capabilities but they did not use their radars. the eft's that participated in the exercise were the the older tranche 1. tbh i like the mki but it needs new engines. i have not seen an mki in person, but i would assume they do rock the skies.
Hi, but you are missing the woods for the trees... If you read my last paragraph from the previous post I said you have to see the things the IAF pilots do with the MKI.... It's irrelevant how much capability the fighters have.... For me all that matters is how good the pilots are coz the most telling statement that came from the Americans after Cope India 2004 was that I pity anyone who makes the mistake of underestimating the capabilities of IAF coz if you do then you won't be returning back! By the way that's from the Commander of the 3rd wing of USAF

Let me ask you a counter question...how good do you think is a 1960's developed 3rd generation Mig 21 against the 4 th generation F 15 C or F 16 ? Ask the USAF and then again ask yourself.... How good is an IAF pilot flying a MKI OR a RAF pilot flying the EFT? Also bear in mind that this is not a question of beating your or my ego!
 

blueblood

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I saw this from gadeshi in the MKI thread and I also know that Mr Som enjoys an impeccable reputation but I'm wondering why there's a slanging match going on here over something which the princple parties aren't even acknowledging which is the scoreline..... 12/0 or nothing!
Let there be. IAF suffered for its silence on Cope India 2005, 2006 and eventually Red Flag 2008.

I'm also wondering whether all this won't end up being counter productive when tomorrow nobody would like to hold joint exercises with IAF simply coz the desi journos shoot from the hip.
Not how it works. Don't worry, nobody is going anywhere. They (West) need to practice against Russian jets with good pilots in them.

I believe in the oldest maxim of our religion which says humility is a prerequisite to becoming strong otherwise you will end up being an obnoxious bully!
Then I think its time for an upgrade.

 

blue marlin

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Hi, but you are missing the woods for the trees... If you read my last paragraph from the previous post I said you have to see the things the IAF pilots do with the MKI.... It's irrelevant how much capability the fighters have.... For me all that matters is how good the pilots are coz the most telling statement that came from the Americans after Cope India 2004 was that I pity anyone who makes the mistake of underestimating the capabilities of IAF coz if you do then you won't be returning back! By the way that's from the Commander of the 3rd wing of USAF

Let me ask you a counter question...how good do you think is a 1960's developed 3rd generation Mig 21 against the 4 th generation F 15 C or F 16 ? Ask the USAF and then again ask yourself.... How good is an IAF pilot flying a MKI OR a RAF pilot flying the EFT? Also bear in mind that this is not a question of beating your or my ego!
hi,
well your right because you can have the best fighter out there but then you have a pliot who is not trained well enough to operate the jet to it's maximum capability. this obivously reduces the jets capability. but it too depends on the jet as well. so its a mixture of the pilot and the jet that dictates the capability of an air force.

yes the mig 21 is a formidable aircraft. in fact nato was very concerned about the aircraft during the cold war. today the f16/f15 will shoot down the mig 21 before the mig 21 can detect the adversary. tbh i like the j7 as its more reliable but the mig 21 bison has a bvr capability which the j7 does not have.
 

Punya Pratap

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Let there be. IAF suffered for its silence on Cope India 2005, 2006 and eventually Red Flag 2008.



Not how it works. Don't worry, nobody is going anywhere. They (West) need to practice against Russian jets with good pilots in them.



Then I think its time for an upgrade.

Dear Blueblood,

I agree the West needs to evaluate their fighters and pilots against competitive airforce flying the Russian jets but your statement is partially true regarding IAF suffering by keeping silent regarding its performance in Cope India or Red Flag (barring the 2008 where a certain ill informed Colonel Fornoff shot his mouth off while IAF kept silent)

I would like to thank you for giving the discussion a poetic twist by including a poem by one of the most rebellious, nationalist and exceptionally talented poet Ramdhari Singh Dinkar but the fact remains that his last stanza reaffirms my statement (I'm giving a lose English translation of the last stanza of the poem posted by you)

Tolerance, Forgiveness and Mercy,
The World appreciates it when,
The mirror of power,
Reflects brightly behind those emotions!

I wonder what will happen if Lord Shiva - The Destroyer should do if he reads this poem, do you wish him to start breast beating about his powers from the heights of Mt. Kailash?? The very fact that Shiva resides in the reclusive glacial heights of Mt Kailash meditating most of the times is reflective of how power should be managed..... I dont think he bothers about scorelines otherwise Shiva would be reminding all of us how many times he has destroyed the Creation!!

I hope I have stated my intention regarding how IAF should conduct itself or Desi Journos (If they can behave...which sadly they dont looking at the crap they dish out on the News channels) Whenever our armed forces (IAF/IA/IN) conduct/go for bilateral exercises their behaviour reflects upon our country and I would rather have them behave magnanimously than a wannabe world power with a big ego like China is doing these days!
 

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