Tokyo reducing reliance on China inks India rare earth accord

[pmaitra]

If you were one, I would certainly like to, for the greater good, but the fact that we live in a civilized society makes it impossible.

More like uncivilized thoughts in a civilized world? The only thing that differentiates you from the Naxalite insurgents is that you are not actually killing people.

BTW, your thoughts are not doing any 'greater good' as much as you claim.

Which utopian ideal world do you live in? Yeah, if would be great if there is free movement of everything, but don't give me this idealistic crap please. Wake up and realize that we don't have a damn choice, because the ones who have money and who have technology drive the economic system. You keep asking for equality in everything, free movement of labour and free movement of technology, but you forget that we need them more than they need us, as of today. You can keep asking for equality in everything and shouting "cholbe na, cholbe na" at every foreign company that comes here to "exploit poor Indians", that is the typical trademark of a jholawala.

I don't live in any utopia. I live in the real world, where resources, labour, and innovation, all act as bargaining chips, for whichever party that has control over it. The fun part lies in the negotiating on the cost of these bargaining chips.

Trade Unions use labour as a bargaining chip. If they overdo it, companies pack up and leave. If companies overdo it, i.e. exploit workers, they simply lose workers, and end up paying more for hiring and training new employees. The sweet spot is the equilibrium point.

Just as Trade Unions use labour as a bargaining chip, India should, in the context of this thread, use resource, as a bargaining chip. That was my point in a nutshell.

 

[Bangalorean]

That is a misconception that many suffer from.

You might find this interesting:



Source: Mormon Heretic � Was Henry Ford a Socialist?




It is a well known truth, but successful exceptions exist.

What are you trying to prove by giving one exception here? Does this exception really matter? Lurkerbaba was right when he said that Japanese plants had atrocious working conditions in the 1950 and 60s, as was the case in the majority of the world's nations.

Exceptions don't matter, the norm does.

 

[pmaitra]

First understand the point I am making.

It is not just the poor rural labourer who is being "exploited" (by Western standards). Even the white-collar industry in India is equally "exploited", if you compare it with the West. These things gradually improve as the economic conditions improve, and there are more jobs available in the nation. It always is that way - the more jobs and more development we have, the tougher it gets for companies to "exploit" manpower.

In the meantime, we have see the wonders that your "negotiating" cholbe-na cholbe-na tactics have worked in Kerala and WB, and throughout India actually.

Yeah, let water find its own level, let the market prevail - jholawalas have gamed the system and made the whole thing artificial - artificial controls, artificial prices, artificial rules...



Though I don't, I would say that having an ass-fetish is better than having a fetish for old jholawala women like Mamata Bannerjee

Few things to point out here:

• Socialism: Workers work diligently, and the employer takes care of their welfare diligently. This is the real socialism. That is the workers' paradise.
• Socialism as perceived by many: "Take form Peter, give to Paul." Tax the rich and give to the work shy. That is not socialism. That is lazy man's paradise.

I think we have seen how Ford ran his company, and how Suzuki lost production, due to their greed. I am for removing artificial controls as much as possible, but then, even these MNCs and private corporations that you bat for will not stop from artificially inflating the Rs.. I hope you realize that artificial controls are attempted by both the jholawallas, as well as their opposite counterparts.

 

[Bangalorean]

Just as Trade Unions use labour as a bargaining chip, India should, in the context of this thread, use resource, as a bargaining chip. That was my point in a nutshell.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The point where this whole discussion started was on how to do that.

You speak of "free movement of technology". Good, so how do we get that to happen? By getting the companies to come here and manufacture here, recruit a labour pool here, etc. etc. etc.

And how does that happen? By reforms, infrastructure, and so on.

That is what I said.

 

[pmaitra]

What are you trying to prove by giving one exception here? Does this exception really matter? Lurkerbaba was right when he said that Japanese plants had atrocious working conditions in the 1950 and 60s, as was the case in the majority of the world's nations.

Exceptions don't matter, the norm does.

LB was factually correct, but his deduction that welfare comes later was wrong, and I just gave him an example why he was wrong.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The point where this whole discussion started was on how to do that.

You speak of "free movement of technology". Good, so how do we get that to happen? By getting the companies to come here and manufacture here, recruit a labour pool here, etc. etc. etc.

And how does that happen? By reforms, infrastructure, and so on.

That is what I said.

Yes, I agree with that.

 

[jamesvaikom]

We should give importance to utilize our rare earth for our manufacturing sector. Politicians and environmentalists in Kerala are not allowing us to utilize our rare earth reserves. Kerala Govt. is planning to construct hardware parks. But those parks won't become success if we won't utilize our rare earth reserves.

 

[cloud_9]

Why are we selling our Rare metals :shocked: For the love of the nation they are freaking RARE.

Looks like the manufacturing shift will miss India as it already shifting to Vietnam and other SEA countries Or maybe the government thinks they don't need a strong manufacturing base when they have all the dole distribution setup in place for the welfare of the people

 

[cir]

This is good news。China should have ceased exporting huge quantities of rare earth long time before。

It is time India seeks some much needed capital and technology from Japan in return for the later's use of its resources。

Meanwhile China can get a grip on its mining-induced pollution and save important resources for future use。

 

[Ray]

It is time for India to cement stronger bonds with Japan in all aspects.

Rare earth is not so rare in India and India can supply the same to all countries that require the same.

It is time to indicate to China that there is a world beyond the frontiers of China.

It is time from countries in Asia to develop their infrastructure and industry and given the situation, it is not impossible to isolate Chinese products at competitive rates.

China without export will be forced to look at the world more pragmatically and not have the handle to blackmail.

It reminds me of the manner in which the OPEC was blackmailing the world over oil and then they were brought a notch or two down and made to smell the coffee. Same attention must be given to China to learn how to exist in the international global market scheme of things.

 

[Ray]

Why are we selling our Rare metals :shocked: For the love of the nation they are freaking RARE.

Looks like the manufacturing shift will miss India as it already shifting to Vietnam and other SEA countries Or maybe the government thinks they don't need a strong manufacturing base when they have all the dole distribution setup in place for the welfare of the people

Despite their name, rare earth elements (with the exception of the radioactive promethium) are relatively plentiful in the Earth's crust, with cerium being the 25th most abundant element at 68 parts per million (similar to copper). However, because of their geochemical properties, rare earth elements are typically dispersed and not often found concentrated as rare earth minerals in economically exploitable ore deposits.

Wiki

 

[asianobserve]

Pentagon and Toyota seek to overcome China's rare earth strangehold | MINING.com

 

[Ray]

Pentagon and Toyota seek to overcome China's rare earth strangehold | MINING.com

The loss to rake in more money will be that of China.

China's action is what the metaphor signifies - cutting the nose to spite the face!

The only friends China will finally have are Pakistan and Cambodia and they can have a cosy relationship within this crowd.

As it is the world has not taken kindly to the Chinese claim that all the waters around is that of China!

 

[tharikiran]

I am loving it. China is going to be contained/ will be contained.The US, India, South East Asian countries, Australia, Japan are on one side.These countries are going to increase trade and defence cooperation among them for sure.The US has a new cold war to fight.The next 20-25 years are going to be very interesting.The realignment will happen for sure.The elephant is waking up for sure.I don't see the elephant having a choice here. If it wants to be relevant in the Indian ocean, it has to step up to the plate.US-INDIA-JAPAN.This is the future.My gut feeling is, Japan is going to change it's defence policies. It is increasingly under domestic pressure.The day Japan wakes up--Game over.

 

[asianobserve]

The realignment will happen for sure.

BTW, who will align with China?

 

[tharikiran]

Whatever or whoever aligns with China it will be a smaller group than the INDO-US-JAP ASEAN AUS group.
It has to be seen how much Russia will align with China.Because of India, Russia may not be able to align completely.India will not let go of Russia.
I don't know how much the Russians trust the Chinese.The reverse engineering is a serious issue.
All weather friend Pakistan will be there. But, the impact will be irrelevant.We should not undermine the Ughur issue.If it goes out of control, then the friendship is as good as dead.If Xinxiang turns into a grenade popping suicidal Islamic terrorist's haven; we can all then sit back, get ourselves some ACT 2 popcorn and enjoy the show.

 

[ice berg]

I love all the drama of 10 % drop in rare earth import from China caused here.

 

[cloud_9]

Despite their name, rare earth elements (with the exception of the radioactive promethium) are relatively plentiful in the Earth's crust, with cerium being the 25th most abundant element at 68 parts per million (similar to copper). However, because of their geochemical properties, rare earth elements are typically dispersed and not often found concentrated as rare earth minerals in economically exploitable ore deposits.

Wiki

I think it's the economic exploitability that makes things rare or abundant the best example is Hydrogen & Water .

 

[Ray]

I love all the drama of 10 % drop in rare earth import from China caused here.

That was not the reason.

It was China's cussedness and blackmail mode that aroused the ire.

Rare Earth is not so rare, in case you did not know.

US is going to get it from Canada as a starter!

It is China which is acting cleverer than half by its usual gobgas big talk when they are still going ahead with 90% export (going by your assessment),

One would have been delighted if China put their money where their mouth is - by cutting out 100% export.

Then China would sink!

 

[no smoking]

That was not the reason.

It was China's cussedness and blackmail mode that aroused the ire.

Rare Earth is not so rare, in case you did not know.

US is going to get it from Canada as a starter!

It is China which is acting cleverer than half by its usual gobgas big talk when they are still going ahead with 90% export (going by your assessment),

One would have been delighted if China put their money where their mouth is - by cutting out 100% export.

Then China would sink!

Don't worry, we are cutting.

In Jan-Jun of this year, Chinese rare earth exportation was reduced 42.7% than the same period of last year.

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[LETHALFORCE]

Don't worry, we are cutting.

In Jan-Jun of this year, Chinese rare earth exportation was reduced 42.7% than the same period of last year.

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This will mean better prices for Indian rare earth when Chinese reduce supply.