Tokyo reducing reliance on China inks India rare earth accord

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by LETHALFORCE, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Japan, India ink rare-earth accord | The Japan Times Online

    Japan has signed a memorandum of understanding to enable the import of rare-earth minerals from India, a move that will help Tokyo to reduce its heavy reliance on China for the key resources used to manufacture high-tech products.

    The signing ceremony took place Friday in Tokyo, although Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh postponed his planned visit to Japan because of Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda's decision to call a general election next month.

    "Our prime minister had to postpone his visit, but it was very important that we go ahead and sign this important document," Indian Ambassador to Japan Deepa Gopalan Wadhwa told Nobuhiko Sasaki, vice minister for international affairs at the trade ministry, prior to inking the deal.

    Shipments of rare earths from India are expected to begin arriving in Japan as early as next spring, officials at the industry ministry said. With rare-earth production at full throttle, India could supply around 4,100 tons a year, equivalent to roughly 10 percent of Japan's peak annual demand.

    The production and exports will be conducted by a joint venture between Toyota Tsusho Corp. and state-run Indian Rare Earths Ltd.

    Japan imported around 90 percent of its rare-earth supplies from China last year, and is hoping to reduce its dependence because of the risk that Beijing might curb exports amid the Senkaku Islands rift.
     
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  3. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Is India a good source? Do we have enough deposits? Not that we have a good enough manufacturing base, but assuming we do come up with a decent one with time, can we sustain exports and the domestic demand along side?
     
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    India has 4th largest deposit. That manufacturing base may come faster thru trade deals like this?

    • Rare earth reserves worldwide in 2011 by country | Statistic
     
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  5. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    I am not sure about the manufacturing thing, though I have always remained an optimist on the front. Problem has been, we keep delaying the most basic reforms for a very long time and we simply waste time and as happened with the FDI in the retail sector we tend to make massive mountains out of mole hills.

    If manufacturing has to pick up in India, we need to take up the policy decisions and move ahead with reforms which concern the sector. For now, we are sleeping over these.
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Manufacturing may not pick up for decades so we sell the raw material same exact scenario in iron exports.

    India Bets on Rare-Earth Minerals - WSJ.com

    The standoff has left India, currently the world's second-largest producer and home to large deposits of rare-earth minerals, with a window of opportunity to boost production to fill the dropoff in China's exports.
     
  7. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    LF,

    I have a sense that it is more of a strategic decision, keeping in check the bullying tactics of China, to further boost a well meaning relationship with Japan, and also, let us not forget Japan has committed a big amount for the DMIC, along which there is expected to be big investments and a significant bit targeted towards manufacturing.

    I hope we can really remove all the bottle necks that we have for present in the manufacturing sector before DMIC really picks up the pace, but for that we need a very strong leadership at the center, and a government that is not dependent on any sort of coalition parties.

    I was just wondering on the extent of these very precious reserves. China is sitting on heaps and heaps of these reserves, no wonder they are trying to dominate the rules of the game on this one. In a way good for us, but we tend to bad at taking advantage of such opportunities.
     
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  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Perhaps GoI should push for Japan, and other countries, actually making the finished products in India, instead of siphoning off the raw minerals?

    Not too excited with this news.
     
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  9. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Yeah totally agree, but for that, we need reforms. Labour reforms, GST, and a variety of stuff like that. As Thakur_Ritesh pointed out, such a big noise is being made for the reforms that are currently being carried out, will our jholawala-infested politicians ever carry out the really tough reforms?
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    We need jholawallas, if you implied those pro-PSU and anti-privatization activists, to counterbalance this trend of handing over our mines to foreign corporations. We have seen the coal-gate scams already. If private corporations are given a free hand, they will go for short term benefits, ignoring the long term interests of the nation. This is more important for rare earths.

    I personally feel strategic minerals should remain under government control.

    Many countries are waking up to mineral exploitation by foreign and private corporations. Here is a news about a Kyrgyz Gold Mine: Kyrgyzstan to decide fate of Canadian-owned gold mine - Telegraph
     
  11. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Firstly, I was speaking of anti-Globalization, anti-liberalization jholawalas, and of useless women like Mamata Bannerjee who are still stuck in the 1970s.

    Instead of speaking of "counterbalancing" things, why don't you ponder upon why companies prefer to mine stuff from here, rather than establish industry here? If a private company finds it cost-effective and efficient, it will establish industry here rather than mine stuff and take it out. It is the job of the government to kick the jholawalas in the ass and make sure that all necessary reforms are put in place so that companies can establish industry here.

    With the current situation, India's cheap labour costs and favourable demographics, this is the time in history when we should shoot dead the jholawalas and build our country. History will not give us this chance again.
     
  12. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    DNA exclusive: India digs in heels on free trade pact with Asean

    By Neeraj Thakur | Place: New Delhi | Agency: DNA

    source

    Phuket Business: ASEAN set to ink deals with China

    source


    Japan asks EU for leadership in starting FTA talks with Japan

    source

    We must not see Japan and China in Isolation with India only. There is a greater strategic alignment going on!
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I agree we need to ponder why we cannot establish private companies here.

    It is not the job of the government to kick the jholawallas (really, when did that become government's job?). I think the government's job is to arrest anyone threatening violence.

    If a private company found it cost effective, it would have already setup industries in India. If it did not, especially when major auto companies have, it means there is shortage of skilled workforce for such high-tech factories. If I were you, I'd think of that first, instead of jumping to the conclusion that it is always the jholawalla. I am quite certain the jholawalla has more information at his disposal than you do.

    I just want to give you one example.

    The Maruti-Suzuki plant operates on a predominantly temporary workforce, the workforce's salary is fixed, and the only union the management negotiates with is the company appointed union. Contrast this with Suzuki's Japan plants, where worker's unions and management negotiate their pay structure, where part of the pay structure is fixed (somewhat), and the other part is linked to performance.

    Link: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...-HK_4Z&sig=AHIEtbQ8zxTCk_CSy2lYbx7DAa4Sq0wFng

    There is a reason why many companies are lured to come to India. They have the impression they can exploit the workers in India, and care little about the workers' welfare.

    We may disagree on this, but if it came to me kicking anyone's ass, it'd be companies like these, not the jholawallas.
     
  14. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Skilled workforce? That is hardly the only reason for the lack of manufacturing here. You need to stop defending the jholawala so doggedly - or are you a jholawala yourself? :confused: And anyway, with the labour and material rates here, shortage of skilled labour will never ever stop anyone from coming here - labour will be trained.

    Yeah, not that we have a choice. It is laughable to speak of "big MNCs exploiting workers", when you look at the condition of the rural masses living a subsistence livelihood.
     
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  15. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Interesting that you give the example of Japan. They had atrocious working conditions for their workers during industrialization

    Industrialization can happen only the hard way. "Worker's welfare" and "rights" may come into play only after a certain stage of development.

    Companies invest to reap a profit, not to promote welfare
     
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  16. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The problem with socialist jholawala thinking is, they want to run before they can crawl. :tsk:

    Even the white-collar IT industry is "exploited", in the majority of cases. No one in the West will put these many hours into work, sacrificing their weekends, their vacations, and so on... no Westerner will agree to travel "onsite" and live in the conditions that Desis are always ready for. Even I went through that phase in the early stages of my career.

    Do we have a choice, really? What should we do now, form unions and kick the asses of the IT companies and shout, "cholbe na, cholbe na"? @pmaitra?
     
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  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Let's say I am a jholawalla, would you shoot me dead?

    No, I did not say all MNCs are exploiting workers, but Suzuki surely is. I have just pointed out the facts, and if that makes me a jholawalla, then so be it. At least I have some information, and you, none. The inflation of the Rs. is also making life hard for these 'rural masses' that you so seem to care about, while remaining completely ignorant of the fact that most of these MNCs, including those of Indian origin, have been lobbying the government to keep inflating the Rs. so as to balance their own books at the detriment of the nation.

    You are missing the big picture.

    Let me ask you another question. Palladium is a rare mineral used in catalytic converters. Could you please tell me of any Indian contribution w.r.t. catalytic converters, given that we have so many auto companies? To the best of my knowledge, it is ZERO. We need innovation. If we cannot create it here, we need to get it from other countries. If they are unwilling, we should simply starve them of resources, and without resources, technology is useless. I could bet that any country making hi-tech but small instruments, will not be willing to move manufacturing off shore, out of fear that their technology monopoly will be diluted.

    Understand, that when I said shortage of workforce, I was speaking in terms of 'rare earths' and not in terms of assembling doors onto cars.

    Coming back to the original point I made:

    It is laughable that you understand so little about economics and talk about globalization.

    Economics relies on three things, innovation, labour, and resources. If there is free movement of resources, why not allow free movement of labour and innovation? Will Japan allow free movement of Indian workforce to Japan? Will Japan allow free movement of technology to India? If you agree that India place such conditions, then we have no disagreement.
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    That is a misconception that many suffer from.

    You might find this interesting:

    Source: Mormon Heretic » Was Henry Ford a Socialist?


    It is a well known truth, but successful exceptions exist.
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I am not interested in what you did in your personal career. If you chose to be exploited, then that is your stupidity. If you think you were not exploited, then quit complaining.

    Labour is as important as resources and innovation. Some people know how to negotiate with the threat of withholding labour, some people succumb under pressure. If you don't want to negotiate, that's fine, but you have no right to deny others the opportunity to negotiate. Sometimes trade unions put forward unfair demands, true, but so do companies.

    Let water find it's own level.

    For you, do some research, because you are grossly ill informed. You also seem to have a fetish for 'ass' and 'kick.' What's up?
     
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  20. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    If you were one, I would certainly like to, for the greater good, but the fact that we live in a civilized society makes it impossible.

    Which utopian ideal world do you live in? Yeah, if would be great if there is free movement of everything, but don't give me this idealistic crap please. Wake up and realize that we don't have a damn choice, because the ones who have money and who have technology drive the economic system. You keep asking for equality in everything, free movement of labour and free movement of technology, but you forget that we need them more than they need us, as of today. You can keep asking for equality in everything and shouting "cholbe na, cholbe na" at every foreign company that comes here to "exploit poor Indians", that is the typical trademark of a jholawala.
     
  21. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    First understand the point I am making.

    It is not just the poor rural labourer who is being "exploited" (by Western standards). Even the white-collar industry in India is equally "exploited", if you compare it with the West. These things gradually improve as the economic conditions improve, and there are more jobs available in the nation. It always is that way - the more jobs and more development we have, the tougher it gets for companies to "exploit" manpower.

    In the meantime, we have see the wonders that your "negotiating" cholbe-na cholbe-na tactics have worked in Kerala and WB, and throughout India actually.

    Yeah, let water find its own level, let the market prevail - jholawalas have gamed the system and made the whole thing artificial - artificial controls, artificial prices, artificial rules...

    Though I don't, I would say that having an ass-fetish is better than having a fetish for old jholawala women like Mamata Bannerjee :laugh:
     

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