Today China is what US was

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nitesh

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martian what are you up to? Why twisting the stories, here are excerpts from your link:

Yin: A sourcing opportunity rather than a threat
According to OECD sources,

some 55% of China's total exports are attributed to production and assembly-related activities, and 58% of these are driven by foreign enterprises, of which 38% are entirely foreign-owned. In fact, among the top 10 high-technology companies by revenue, not one of them is Chinese.

China's export performance, therefore, is directly linked to its specialization in assembly operations and the high value-added inputs imported from Western economies. This has facilitated a rapid diversification of its manufactured exports, from low-end manufactures to high-technology products.

Awaiting comments :)
 

Martian

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martian what are you up to? Why twisting the stories, here are excerpts from your link:

Yin: A sourcing opportunity rather than a threat
According to OECD sources,

some 55% of China's total exports are attributed to production and assembly-related activities, and 58% of these are driven by foreign enterprises, of which 38% are entirely foreign-owned. In fact, among the top 10 high-technology companies by revenue, not one of them is Chinese.

China's export performance, therefore, is directly linked to its specialization in assembly operations and the high value-added inputs imported from Western economies. This has facilitated a rapid diversification of its manufactured exports, from low-end manufactures to high-technology products.

Awaiting comments :)
Are you saying that China's exports by Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo, Huangeng Power, A-Power (wind turbines made of high-tech carbon composites), LNG ships, satellites, dams, subways (i.e. see Tehran), etc. are all low-tech exports?

38% are foreign owned. What about the other larger 62%? Are all US exports owned by the US exclusively? No foreign company owns factories and export from the United States? What is the percentage of US high-tech exports owned by foreign companies? Then compare the two absolute numbers. Due to time constraints, I tend to make the reasonable assumption that the relative percentage of foreign exports for major trading nations are within 10% of one another. Is the Chinese high-tech exports really that far behind US high-tech exports?

I am not "twisting" any story.

First, it is ridiculous to reclassify Chinese high-tech exports as low-tech goods. The OECD properly classifies high-tech exports as such.

Second, the absolute dollar value of Chinese high-tech exports is close to and possibly greater than US high-tech exports.

There is a complication. The US and the world recognizes Taiwan as belonging to China under the "One China" communique/pledge. Do we count the 18,000 Taiwanese companies (i.e. Hon Hai Precision, Compal (world's second largest notebook computer manufacturer), Quanta (world's largest notebook computer manufacturer), Taiwan Semiconductor, etc.) operating in Mainland China as Chinese? If yes then the percentage of Chinese high-tech exports may increase in the statistics.

I think that it defies reality to claim that China is not a major exporter of high-tech goods.

IndustryWeek : China's High-Tech Export Threatens U.S. Competitiveness

"China's High-Tech Export Threatens U.S. Competitiveness...

In 2001, U.S. manufactured exports were more than double those of China, while in the first half of 2006 China passed the U.S, with $404 billion of manufactured exports compared to $367 billion for the U.S.
...
Chinese exports are now primarily high technology, most prominently in the information technology and telecommunications sector. The "export platform" issue has been greatly exaggerated, and Chinese value added for information technology exports will soon reach 70%, if it has not already done so."

Notice the "export platform" (i.e. foreign ownership) has been "greatly exaggerated."
 

nitesh

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Are you saying that China's exports by Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo, Huangeng Power, A-Power (wind turbines made of high-tech carbon composites), LNG ships, satellites, dams, subways (i.e. see Tehran), etc. are all low-tech exports?
You are again twisting it around read it again, pasting for your convenience

some 55% of China's total exports are attributed to production and assembly-related activities, and 58% of these are driven by foreign enterprises, of which 38% are entirely foreign-owned. In fact, among the top 10 high-technology companies by revenue, not one of them is Chinese.

China's export performance, therefore, is directly linked to its specialization in assembly operations and the high value-added inputs imported from Western economies. This has facilitated a rapid diversification of its manufactured exports, from low-end manufactures to high-technology products.
 

Martian

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You are again twisting it around read it again, pasting for your convenience

some 55% of China's total exports are attributed to production and assembly-related activities, and 58% of these are driven by foreign enterprises, of which 38% are entirely foreign-owned. In fact, among the top 10 high-technology companies by revenue, not one of them is Chinese.

China's export performance, therefore, is directly linked to its specialization in assembly operations and the high value-added inputs imported from Western economies. This has facilitated a rapid diversification of its manufactured exports, from low-end manufactures to high-technology products.
I'm not sure what you're getting at.

China has a supply chain for the telecommunications, computer equipment, cell phone, and power generation industry. Lenovo manufactures and exports from China. Lenovo's products are counted as high-tech exports. Let's say Dell wants to take advantage of China's lower costs and Dell owns a factory in China. Dell manufactures and exports computers from China. However, we should not count that as a high-tech export? Or are you saying that because Dell exports from China then the Lenovo computer doesn't count as a high-tech export?

Are you resurrecting Vladimir's argument? Since foreign companies exist in China, China doesn't get any credit for high-tech exports? The 38% gets the credit, but the bigger 62% gets no credit?

How is the Dell in China example differ from Siemens manufacturing and exporting power equipment from the United States? Do you want to exclude all foreign exports from the United States and also, do foreign exports therefore cast doubt on the label of US high-tech exports?
 

badguy2000

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case is that "made in CHina" is everywhere all ove the world.


case is that USA,EU and Japan have to retreat along the value chain day by day while CHina is climbing along the value chain day by day. shoes,texiles,toys. then household appliances(Haier)..shipbuilidings...then telecom facilities(Huawai ZET)...now it is auto(Chery,FAC.SAC.) and military aircraft(J10)....what is the next ?

as we see, every 5 years, CHina can make a obvious frog-jump along value-chain and advance further along value chain.....
then what is the last defensive line of USA,EU and Japan?

when can USA .EU and Japan stop their retreatment along value chain in the front of aggressive CHina?
 

nitesh

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I'm not sure what you're getting at.

China has a supply chain for the telecommunications, computer equipment, cell phone, and power generation industry. Lenovo manufactures and exports from China. Lenovo's products are counted as high-tech exports. Let's say Dell wants to take advantage of China's lower costs and Dell owns a factory in China. Dell manufactures and exports computers from China. However, we should not count that as a high-tech export? Or are you saying that because Dell exports from China then the Lenovo computer doesn't count as a high-tech export?

Are you resurrecting Vladimir's argument? Since foreign companies exist in China, China doesn't get any credit for high-tech exports? The 38% gets the credit, but the bigger 62% gets no credit?

How is the Dell in China example differ from Siemens manufacturing and exporting power equipment from the United States? Do you want to exclude all foreign exports from the United States and also, do foreign exports therefore cast doubt on the label of US high-tech exports?
martian this is last time I am doing it after that if you blabber the same thing I will start deleting it pasting it again

some 55% of China's total exports are attributed to production and assembly-related activities, and 58% of these are driven by foreign enterprises, of which 38% are entirely foreign-owned. In fact, among the top 10 high-technology companies by revenue, not one of them is Chinese.
 

Daredevil

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I'm not sure what you're getting at.

China has a supply chain for the telecommunications, computer equipment, cell phone, and power generation industry. Lenovo manufactures and exports from China. Lenovo's products are counted as high-tech exports. Let's say Dell wants to take advantage of China's lower costs and Dell owns a factory in China. Dell manufactures and exports computers from China. However, we should not count that as a high-tech export? Or are you saying that because Dell exports from China then the Lenovo computer doesn't count as a high-tech export?

Are you resurrecting Vladimir's argument? Since foreign companies exist in China, China doesn't get any credit for high-tech exports? The 38% gets the credit, but the bigger 62% gets no credit?

How is the Dell in China example differ from Siemens manufacturing and exporting power equipment from the United States? Do you want to exclude all foreign exports from the United States and also, do foreign exports therefore cast doubt on the label of US high-tech exports?
Let me put everything in simple sentence for you. Most of high-end technology exports are based on foreign technology whose R&D is solely done in western countries in general and US in specific. What China is really doing is supplying the raw material, cheap labor who are made to work for long hours for very less and a place to establish foreign companies' assembly lines. This helps foreign companies to get more profit margins on their products.
 

Martian

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China Moves To #1 In High Tech Exports | Solar Feeds News And Commentary Network

"Over the past 11 years, China’s share in high-tech exports worldwide has increased almost eightfold. In 1995, China accounted for 2.1% of global high-tech exports, representing in real terms around 8% of the US trade value. In 2006, Chinese exports in real terms outpaced those of the US and the EU, according to new data released by the EU."

Why do forum members persist in insisting that China only exports low-tech goods? The EU data shows China as the world's leading exporter in 2006. The EU doesn't complain about foreign companies manufacturing in China. It is common sense that there are foreign companies manufacturing in the EU and US as well.
 

Daredevil

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China Moves To #1 In High Tech Exports | Solar Feeds News And Commentary Network

"Over the past 11 years, China’s share in high-tech exports worldwide has increased almost eightfold. In 1995, China accounted for 2.1% of global high-tech exports, representing in real terms around 8% of the US trade value. In 2006, Chinese exports in real terms outpaced those of the US and the EU, according to new data released by the EU."

Why do forum members persist in insisting that China only exports low-tech goods? The EU data shows China as the world's leading exporter in 2006. The EU doesn't complain about foreign companies manufacturing in China. It is common sense that there are foreign companies manufacturing in the EU and US as well.
No body is questioning that China is no.1 high-tech exporter but we are questioning the source for this high-technology, which for most part is foreign technology not Chinese technology. I hope you are getting the point.
 

Martian

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Let me put everything in simple sentence for you. Most of high-end technology exports are based on foreign technology whose R&D is solely done in western countries in general and US in specific. What China is really doing is supplying the raw material, cheap labor who are made to work for long hours for very less and a place to establish foreign companies' assembly lines. This helps foreign companies to get more profit margins on their products.
Huaneng Power Intl

"Huaneng Power International gets its revenues from developing, constructing and operating large power plants in People's Republic of China. All power plants employ modern technological methods for generating maximum power. Huaneng invites domestic as well as international capital. It built mainland China's first 600 MW supercritical power generation unit. Huaneng Yuhuan power plant is an ultra-critical coal-fired unit with 1000 MW generating capacity."

It is your claim that Huawei's technology does not belong to China, but it is instead US technology? Same thing for Huaneng Power and every other Chinese company (i.e. the majority 62%)? Therefore the research and development by Huangneng Power doesn't count? Huaneng Power is the only Asian nation that possesses the technology to build turbine blades for 600 MW coal-fired power plants that is equivalent in technology to GE and SIEMENS. However, you have decided that since Huaneng is the third company in the world to develop this technology then it doesn't count? Well, how about SIEMENS, are you going to not count their high-tech exports of 600 MW turbines too?

I think your definition is ridiculous. Under your definition, only US can claim to have high-tech exports because the US got there first. Independent development of technology receives no credit under your definition. I don't think any reasonable person agrees with you.
 

Rage

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There is a complication. The US and the world recognizes Taiwan as belonging to China under the "One China" communique/pledge. Do we count the 18,000 Taiwanese companies (i.e. Hon Hai Precision, Compal (world's second largest notebook computer manufacturer), Quanta (world's largest notebook computer manufacturer), Taiwan Semiconductor, etc.) operating in Mainland China as Chinese? If yes then the percentage of Chinese high-tech exports may increase in the statistics.

I trust you didn't think that would go unnoticed:

The U.S. does not "recognize" Taiwan as belonging to China under the "One China communique/pledge" or otherwise. To suggest so would be moribund and fallacious, and indicative of a lack of understanding of diplomatic catankering.


De facto, the US continues to arm Taiwan to the teeth, with a build-up of arms including missiles aimed at inland China. Taiwan is also evaluating a US$4.9 billion (S$6.79 billion) deal for 66 advanced F-16s to modernise its military.

Here's the latest:

In a move bound to anger China, the United States intends to sell $6.4 billion in arms to Taiwan, the State Department said Friday.

State Department deputy spokesman Robert Wood said Congress -- whose approval is needed for the deal to go through -- was notified Friday afternoon. He indicated the administration expects congressional approval quickly.


U.S. to sell $6.4 billion in weapons to Taiwan - CNN.com


A Compendium of Taiwan: Major U.S. Arms Sales Since 1990


De jure, it is clear to anyone who has studied US foreign policy carefully, that the United States and Japan "acknowledge" rather than "recognize" the PRC position that Taiwan is part of China.

In the case of Canada and the UK, bilateral written agreements state that the two respective parties take note of Beijing's position but do not use the word support. The UK government position that "the future of Taiwan be decided peacefully by the peoples of both sides of the Strait" has been stated several times. Despite the PRC claim that the United States opposes Taiwanese independence, the United States takes advantage of the subtle difference between "oppose" and "does not support". In fact, a substantial majority of the statements Washington has made says that it "does not support Taiwan independence" instead of saying that it "opposes" independence. Thus, the US currently does not take a position on the political outcome, except for one explicit condition that there be a peaceful resolution to the differences between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait.[15] All of this ambiguity has resulted in the United States walking on a constant and purposive diplomatic tightrope with regard to cross-Strait relations.

The reason is simple: The PRC refuses to maintain diplomatic relations with any nation that recognizes the ROC, and the United States is not about to lose out because of its position. Therefore, many nations that have diplomatic relations with Beijing maintain quasi-diplomatic offices in Taipei: in the case of the United States: the American Institute in Taiwan, while also allowing Taiwan to maintain atleast a dozen embassies under the guise of 'Economic and Cultural' offices in the United States.


Furthermore, this will help to elucidate some of the wrong deductions drawn from engineeredly ambiguous statements:

No change in U.S. Taiwan policy

William Stanton, director of the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), on November 24 reiterated that there were no “surprises” from President Barak Obama's recent trip to China regarding U.S. policy toward Taiwan. Stanton rebutted charges by some local politicians and media that Obama had retreated on the Taiwan issue in his talks with Beijing leaders.

In her meeting with Raymond F. Burghardt, chairman of the AIT in Taipei, Tsai Ing-wen, chairwoman of the opposition Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), pointed to the emphasis in the joint statement issued by President Obama and Chinese President Hu Jintao that the two countries should mutually respect each other's sovereignty and territory while making no mention of the Taiwan Relations Act (TRA) that requires the U.S. to provide defensive arms to Taiwan.

The question of Taiwan has always been an extremely sensitive issue ever since Washington and Beijing established formal diplomatic relations in that while Beijing insists that Taiwan “is an integral part of China” of which it is the sole representative, the United States does not.

Hence, to overcome this seemingly irreconcilable difference, a practical and wise compromise had been worked out between the two governments in which the U.S. said neither yes nor no on the Chinese claim, instead, for its part, it used the word “acknowledged.” The real U.S. attitude toward Taiwan was explicitly manifested by the later congressional passage of the TRA that mandates the country's assistance in defense of Taiwan against any Chinese Communist attempt to take it over.

Diplomacy is an art where often what is not said is more important than what is said and what is done is more important than what is said. In the statement issued jointly by Obama and Hu, the stress of respect of each other's territorial integrity easily touched on the nerves of Taiwan as it might mean that America agreed that Taiwan “is an integral part of China.”

But, as we go on reading the document, we will realize that the U.S. recognized Tibet, not Taiwan, as part of China.


Apparently to ease the misgivings on the part of Taipei, Burghardt declared that the United States will continue to sell defensive arms to Taiwan, particularly in view of the continued growing of missiles deployed by Beijing at Taiwan.

It is true that from the very beginning, U.S.-China relations have been built on the basis of a certain degree of vagueness of positions which allow both sides to make interpretations according to their respective needs.

Just as Burghardt put it when commenting on the Obama-Hu joint statement, “if we insisted (referring to including the TRA), we wouldn't have the joint statement. That's sort of understandable.” What Taiwan should really be concerned about is not what the U.S. says, but whether it continues to fulfill its obligation to provide necessary weapons in defense of the island as required by the TRA.
No change in U.S. Taiwan policy - The China Post
 

Martian

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Let me try another approach.

The central question is whether China can match U.S. achievements in the long term. On Stormfront (a white supremacist website), someone raised a very interesting point.

"How do you explain the perceived/actual superiority of Asian electronics and consumer automobiles then? South Korea and Japan are some of the most high-tech nations on Earth. I don't want anyone to be confused, I'm a White Russian from Moscow and I want White people to rule the world or at the least live separately from others, but how do you explain things like this?

IQ and Global Inequality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the list of highest IQs, Asian countries seem to dominate the top, no matter the disparity in per capita salary."

I read the article on Wikipedia and this is the interesting part:

As I understand it, an IQ of 100 is the global average.

For 2006, China's average IQ is listed at 105, which is above global average.

For 2006, U.S. average IQ is listed at 98, which is roughly the global average.

The average Chinese IQ is slightly higher than the average American IQ. It stands to reason that over the long term, there is no "brain-power" impediment to prevent China from matching American technological might.
 

Martian

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"No body is questioning that China is no.1 high-tech exporter but we are questioning the source for this high-technology, which for most part is foreign technology not Chinese technology. I hope you are getting the point." (Posted by Daredevil)

"I trust you didn't think that would go unnoticed:

The U.S. does not "recognize" Taiwan as belonging to China under the "One China communique/pledge" or otherwise. To suggest so would be moribund and fallacious, and indicative of a lack of understanding of diplomatic catankering." (Posted by Rage)

I think you misunderstood me. I am not addressing the political status of Taiwan in its relation to China. I was expressing my uncertainty over whether to treat Taiwanese exporters on Mainland China as domestic or foreign.

For example, the World Bank does not recognize Taiwan as a separate country. There are no statistics issued by the World Bank for Taiwan. If we use the World Bank approach then Taiwanese exports from Mainland China will have to be counted as Chinese.

There are roughly 18,000 Taiwanese companies on Mainland China. There are approximately 1 million Taiwanese living and working in the Shanghai area. There is possibly another million Taiwanese working in southern China, near the Guangzhou area. The Taiwanese presence is considerable.

Taiwanese manufacturers and exporters are exemplified by Hon Hai Precision (world's "largest manufacturer of electronics and computer components"; see Foxconn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), Acer (world's second largest computer company), Quanta and Compal (world's largest and second-largest notebook manufacturers; see Quanta Computer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Compal Electronics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), Taiwan Semiconductor (world's largest independent semiconductor foundry; see TSMC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), Winbond (large integrated circuit supplier; see Winbond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), and many more companies involved in LCD displays (see AU Optronics), digital cameras, GPS devices (see http://www.pressreleasepoint.com/taiwan039s-gps-makers-see-global-market-share-over-50 ), machine tools, petrochemicals (see Formosa Plastics), mobile cellphone chipsets (see MediaTek), etc.

Taiwan was a perennial number four in the number of U.S. patents received until it was passed by South Korea in 2008. Now, Taiwan is the fifth-largest country in the number of annual U.S. patents received.

The Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese. They are both Han people. Chinese and Taiwanese share the same history and they both revere Confucius, Sun Yat Sen, etc. Chinese and Taiwanese share the same language. They both speak and write in Mandarin. They share the same culture (see Feng shui). Most Taiwanese have grandparents and/or can point to a particular village in China where their ancestors lived. If you like, I can provide links of many rich Taiwanese that have donated schools and or hospitals to their ancestral towns on Mainland China.

Since the Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese and they live and work on Mainland China, does it make sense to count Taiwanese exports from Mainland China as domestic-content Chinese exports? If the answer is "yes" then I would contend that most Mainland Chinese exports comprise of domestic high-tech content. If the answer is "no" then a case can be made that most Chinese high-tech exports are foreign (i.e. Taiwanese). After all, it is the 18,000-strong Taiwanese companies that have invested 150 billion to 200 billion+ U.S. dollars (depending on which magazine you read) into the construction of manufacturing facilities on Mainland China.

By herself, at current #10 on the U.S. patent list, China does not yet possess sufficient domestic-content high-technology export capability. However, if you count Taiwanese high-technology as Chinese-origin (see supra, Taiwanese and Chinese are both Han people) then as the former #4 on the U.S. patent-recipient list, the Chinese/Taiwanese high-technology base should be sufficient.
 

Daredevil

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Since the Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese and they live and work on Mainland China, does it make sense to count Taiwanese exports from Mainland China as domestic-content Chinese exports? If the answer is "yes" then I would contend that most Mainland Chinese exports comprise of domestic high-tech content. If the answer is "no" then a case can be made that most Chinese high-tech exports are foreign (i.e. Taiwanese). After all, it is the 18,000-strong Taiwanese companies that have invested 150 billion to 200 billion+ U.S. dollars (depending on which magazine you read) into the construction of manufacturing facilities on Mainland China.

By herself, at current #10 on the U.S. patent list, China does not yet possess sufficient domestic-content high-technology export capability. However, if you count Taiwanese high-technology as Chinese-origin (see supra, Taiwanese and Chinese are both Han people) then as the former #4 on the U.S. patent-recipient list, the Chinese/Taiwanese high-technology base should be sufficient.
It is a very flawed logic to start with and your effort to show Chinese as some kind of super power is quite laughable.

Taking credit of Taiwan's progress as that of China's progress is akin to Pakistan taking credit of India's progress or Britain taking credit of Americans success. Such logic is pure poppycock :D.

And regards to claims of Chinese having higher IQs is a very poor effort. Calculation of IQs and comparison across countries have to be done based on standardized IQ tests rather than some random IQ tests done in different countries in different ways. A common methodology to measure and compare IQs across the countries is important, in absence of which it is a wasteful effort to compare IQs of people of different countries. It will most likely be wrong.
 

Martian

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It is a very flawed logic to start with and your effort to show Chinese as some kind of super power is quite laughable.

Taking credit of Taiwan's progress as that of China's progress is akin to Pakistan taking credit of India's progress or Britain taking credit of Americans success. Such logic is pure poppycock :D.

And regards to claims of Chinese having higher IQs is a very poor effort. Calculation of IQs and comparison across countries have to be done based on standardized IQ tests rather than some random IQ tests done in different countries in different ways. A common methodology to measure and compare IQs across the countries is important, in absence of which it is a wasteful effort to compare IQs of people of different countries. It will most likely be wrong.
Let me see if I can change your mind.

During the last census (i.e. year 2000) in the United States, there were three sub-categories for East Asian Americans. The three categories were Chinese-Americans, Korean-Americans, and Japanese-Americans.

There was an uproar over the three sub-categories for East Asian Americans. People of Chinese, Korean, and Japanese descent were upset that they were singled out on the census. On the other hand, other people felt excluded. Andy Rooney, who is Caucasian, complained that it was unfair to create three special ethnic categories for Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese only; while others had to pick White, Black, Hispanic, or some other broad category. Andy Rooney is an influential and long-time commentator on CBS's 60 Minutes program. The government responded by saying that it would eliminate the three sub-categories in future censuses. The government also commented that there are other ways to collect the information (on the three ethnic groups).

Taiwan is part of East Asia and Taiwanese-origin Americans can only choose from the three sub-categories. Obviously, they selected the Chinese-Americans box. Furthermore, if you tell an American that you were originally from Taiwan, they will say, "Oh, you're Chinese." If you don't believe me, ask your friends in the United States.

Chinese American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Within this community, the term Chinese American is often broadly defined to include not only immigrants from mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau and their descendants but also immigrants and descendants of people from Taiwan[6]"

A prominent example of a Chinese-American is Elaine Chao. Her picture is prominently displayed to the right in the Chinese-American article on Wikipedia. She is the first Chinese-American Cabinet member, as Secretary of Labor, in U.S. history. She served in the George W. Bush administration. American TV and print media virtually-always referred to her as Chinese-American.

American Street Blog Archive HUD Secretary will resign

"Elaine Chao is the first Chinese American, and the first Asian-American woman cabinet member in US history. She’s also the only original cabinet member still serving in the Bush administration."

Elaine Chao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The eldest of six daughters, Chao was born in Taipei, Taiwan...."

Though she is a Chinese-American, Elaine Chao was born on Taiwan. In the American mind, there is no such thing as an ethnic Taiwanese-American. There are only Chinese-Americans of Taiwan-origin.

Want more proof? Let's see what a Taiwanese, YU Ming, in America thinks.

Taiwanese-Chinese,Chinese-Taiwanese - Topix

"I'm a native taiwanese as they call it, but i'm also a chinese, no problem with me being a Chinese, i'm even a DPP supporter.
we in taiwan are separated with the communist chinese politically , but we are still culturally and ethnically the same, soon we'll be economically connected."

There you have it. The American government thinks Taiwanese are Chinese. The American people think Taiwanese are Chinese. American TV and newspapers think Taiwanese are Chinese. Native Taiwanese think they are "also Chinese." Join the consensus-bandwagon. Repeat the mantra, "Taiwanese are Chinese."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a different topic, regarding Pakistanis and Indians, most Pakistanis are Muslims and most Indians are Hindus. Chinese and Taiwanese are...um...just Chinese.

On another topic that you brought up, America and Britain do indeed have a special relationship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_the_United_Kingdom

"Since the 1958 US-UK Mutual Defence Agreement, the United States and the United Kingdom have cooperated extensively on nuclear security matters. The special relationship between the two states has involved the exchange of classified scientific information and nuclear materials such as plutonium.
...In 1974 a US proliferation assessment noted that 'In many cases [Britain's sensitive technology in nuclear and missile fields] is based on technology received from the US and could not legitimately be passed on without US permission.'"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...s-nuclear-bombs-are-built-by-america-1.987198

"The Ministry of Defence has been forced to reveal one of the most closely guarded secrets behind Britain’s nuclear weapons programme.

For years UK ministers have repeatedly refused to say where neutron generators – a vital component of the Trident warheads stationed on the Clyde – were manufactured. The information had to be kept secret for national security reasons, they said.

But now, having been confronted with undeniable evidence by the Sunday Herald, the MoD has admitted that the devices are imported from the United States. And in so doing, it has opened the *Westminster *Government to a barrage of criticism from assorted experts, politicians and campaigners, who now claim that Britain is not in full independent control of its own nuclear deterrent."

Also, only Britain is permitted to fit her submarines with U.S. Trident missiles. No other country in the world has been granted this special privilege.
 

Martian

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It is a very flawed logic to start with and your effort to show Chinese as some kind of super power is quite laughable.

Taking credit of Taiwan's progress as that of China's progress is akin to Pakistan taking credit of India's progress or Britain taking credit of Americans success. Such logic is pure poppycock :D.

And regards to claims of Chinese having higher IQs is a very poor effort. Calculation of IQs and comparison across countries have to be done based on standardized IQ tests rather than some random IQ tests done in different countries in different ways. A common methodology to measure and compare IQs across the countries is important, in absence of which it is a wasteful effort to compare IQs of people of different countries. It will most likely be wrong.
I merely named offhand some Taiwanese companies and the industries that they are involved with. However, since you raised the issue, you might find it interesting to know what American media thinks of Taiwanese companies and China. The following is an article from America's premiere business magazine, BusinessWeek. I consider Forbes as the second most-influential American business magazine.

Why Taiwan Matters

"Why Taiwan Matters
The global economy couldn't function without it. But can it really find peace with China?

Want to find the hidden center of the global economy? Take a drive along Taiwan's Sun Yat-sen Freeway. This stretch of road is how you reach the companies that connect the vast marketplaces and digital powerhouses of the U.S. with the enormous manufacturing centers of China.
...
Taiwan's success is also China's. No one knows for sure how much of China's exports in information and communications hardware are made in Taiwanese-owned factories, but the estimates run from 40% to 80%. As many as 1 million Taiwanese live and work on the mainland. "All the manufacturing capacity in China is overlaid with the management and marketing expertise of the Taiwanese, along with all their contacts in the world," observes Russell Craig, of tech consultants Vericors Inc.
...
China may threaten Taiwan as No. 1 IT supplier. But for now it's Taiwanese engineers who provide ever-more-ingenious solutions to manufacturing and design conundrums."
 

Martian

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It is a very flawed logic to start with and your effort to show Chinese as some kind of super power is quite laughable.

Taking credit of Taiwan's progress as that of China's progress is akin to Pakistan taking credit of India's progress or Britain taking credit of Americans success. Such logic is pure poppycock :D.

And regards to claims of Chinese having higher IQs is a very poor effort. Calculation of IQs and comparison across countries have to be done based on standardized IQ tests rather than some random IQ tests done in different countries in different ways. A common methodology to measure and compare IQs across the countries is important, in absence of which it is a wasteful effort to compare IQs of people of different countries. It will most likely be wrong.
I have no expertise in the field of IQ research. I merely read the Wikipedia article regarding "IQ and Global Inequality." If you are unhappy with the results, please contact Dr. Richard Lynn or Dr. Tatu Vanhanen.

IQ and Global Inequality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"IQ and Global Inequality is a controversial 2006 book by Dr. Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Ulster, Northern Ireland, and Dr. Tatu Vanhanen, Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the University of Tampere, Tampere, Finland.[1] IQ and Global Inequality is follow-up to their 2002 book IQ and the Wealth of Nations[2], an expansion of the argument that international differences in current economic development are due in part to differences in average national intelligence as measured by average national IQ, and a response to critics."

However, I should point out that another group of researchers reached similar conclusions in "The Bell Curve" by Dr. Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray (Charles Murray is the W. H. Brady Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute; see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/20/AR2009032001779.html ).

The Bell Curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Bell Curve is a controversial, best-selling 1994 book by the late Harvard psychologist Richard J. Herrnstein and American Enterprise Institute political scientist Charles Murray."

Furthermore, there appears to be scientific evidence that intelligence is affected by genes.

Is Intelligence in the Genes?

"Is Intelligence in the Genes?
Study Shows Gene May Affect Intelligence but Also Affects Schizophrenia"

After reading the studies and examining the results, it is your personal decision to decide whether you are mentally or psychologically ready to accept the research and conclusions of professors that specialize in IQ research, a Harvard psychologist, an esteemed political scientist, and genetic researchers.

While I know it is not politically-correct to say "China has slightly-higher average IQ than Americans," it should be noted that both books are written by renowned Caucasian (i.e. White) experts. The Caucasian experts have no motive to show that the average Chinese IQ is slightly higher than the average White American IQ. To the contrary, since they work for famous American institutions such as Harvard and American Enterprise Institute, they have every incentive to show that Americans are not slightly inferior to Chinese in average IQ. The results can actually be viewed as a testament to the researchers' impartiality.

Finally, while the IQ results have painted the researchers' own racial group in a slightly-disadvantaged light, I am not aware of any IQ research that shows a clearly contrary result.
 

Martian

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Still not convinced that China is breathing down the U.S. neck?

It’s Official: China Is the Biggest News Story in the World - China Real Time Report - WSJ

"It may seem self-serving, but we’d like to point out the announcement this week by Global Language Monitor: 'Top News Stories of the Decade: The Rise of China surpasses Iraq War and 9/11.'

Of course, we have long felt that China is the most important story around, but now we have scientific proof....

The results weren’t even close. GLM says the 'Rise of China' (it searched the phrase itself and related word groupings) had a score 400% that of the No. 2 Internet story – the Iraq War. China also beat out the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the election of Barack Obama, the global recession, and even the death of Michael Jackson (No. 5). And actually, China placed twice: The No. 11 News Story of the Decade, GLM says, was the Beijing Olympics."
 

nitesh

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from the above :D

But, apparently, some in China didn’t appreciate the honor. China Daily, the state-run English-language newspaper, in a somewhat paranoid-sounding piece :rofl: on its front page today, cites Chinese “experts” saying that the ranking is the “latest attempt by the Western media to tout China for their own good.” (Okay, well, mea culpa, perhaps, in regard to this particular post.) The newspaper paraphrases one expert as saying that the ranking “was partly aimed at trumpeting the so-called China threat,” and quotes him saying that it’s the “latest sign of the U.S. media’s change from China bashing to China flattery.”
 

Martian

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from the above :D

But, apparently, some in China didn’t appreciate the honor. China Daily, the state-run English-language newspaper, in a somewhat paranoid-sounding piece :rofl: on its front page today, cites Chinese “experts” saying that the ranking is the “latest attempt by the Western media to tout China for their own good.” (Okay, well, mea culpa, perhaps, in regard to this particular post.) The newspaper paraphrases one expert as saying that the ranking “was partly aimed at trumpeting the so-called China threat,” and quotes him saying that it’s the “latest sign of the U.S. media’s change from China bashing to China flattery.”
I agree. The Chinese need to relax. They're wary of Uncle Sam and they're worried that the bogeyman will get them. What did they expect? They've got a $2.3 trillion dollar hoard. Everybody in the world is looking at that money.
 
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