Today China is what US was

[badguy2000]

Even their hallmark shipbuilding industry is European designed and supplemented. They import propulsion systems, electronics, almost the whole works in many cases. Most of their input is building cheap hulls. Even their domestic high-speed rail lines have been opened up to European bids due to the difficulties they cannot overcome.

when Putin visited CHina last time, he ordered some CHinese High-speed railway for Russia.

You should persude your premier first. but I am afraid that it is a hard job to you.

 

[Vladimir79]

when Putin visited CHina last time, he ordered some CHinese High-speed railway for Russia.

You should persude your premier first. but I am afraid that it is a hard job to you.

Someone has to lay down the tracks, who better than Chinese labour camps working for pennies? The cars will be supplied by French company Alstrom and any technical difficultues will be consulted with the French. Chinese are just cheap labour and the CCP is forced to do it for practically nothing because they want high-speed rail to send their products to Europe.

 

[Martian]

US dollar will always remain the prime global currency, China is not going to help the world in any way in the economic sense by producing low end goods.

US-China Trade Statistics and China's World Trade Statistics

As indicated in Table 5, China's top two export categories are "Electrical machinery & equipment" and "Power generation equipment." They account for a total of $610.6 billion US dollars in exports.

Given that the majority of China's exports are electrical machinery and power generation equipment, do you still believe that China produces "low end goods?"

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Interesting statistic martian, are these independent Chinese comapnies ? Many of these same companies are active in Indian power projects.

 

[Martian]

Interesting statistic martian, are these independent Chinese comapnies ? Many of these same companies are active in Indian power projects.

Huaneng Power International, Inc. (ADR) - Google Finance

Some of them are private companies. For example, Huaneng Power International is traded on the New York Stock Exchange.

 

[Koji]

From the link that Martian so kindly provided:

Table 5: China's Top Exports 2008 ($ billion)
*Percent change over 2007
Source: PRC General Administration of Customs, China's Customs Statistics
HS# Commodity Description Volume % Change*
85 Electrical machinery & equipment 342.0 13.9
84 Power generation equipment 268.6 17.5
61, 62 Apparel 113.0 4.0
72, 73 Iron & steel 101.8 32.9
90 Optics & medical equipment 43.4 17.0
94 Furniture 42.8 19.0
28, 29 Inorganic & organic chemicals 42.4 39.9
87 Vehicles, excluding railway 39.3 23.5
95 Toys & games 32.7 20.6
27 Mineral fuel and oil 31.6 52.0


Yes, the toys, games, and clothing are there, but you'll see that there that their exports are primarily technically advanced goods. I know a lot of the lenses Japanese camera companies use are imported from China, and they are incredibly intricate and require skill to produce.

 

[Martian]

Reminds me of the same kind of nonsense that was bandied about japan doing the Americans in right through the 60's to the 80's..............Futurologist Alwyn Toffler dedicated most of his future shock and power shift series on the Japanese quandary and what do we have for it

Electricity - consumption - Country Comparison

U.S. annual electricity consumption is 3.89 terawatt-hours. China's electricity consumption is 3.27 terawatt-hours. Japan's electricity consumption is 1.08 terawatt-hours.

Using electricity consumption as a proxy for the rough overall size of an economy, would you say that China's economy is roughly approaching the size of the US economy or is it just wishful thinking?

China Overtakes US as World's Biggest Auto Market
China's Auto Sales Eclipse Flat US Market In November - WSJ.com

Now that China has overtaken the United States as the world's largest car market, is it really that far-fetched to believe that China will develop into an economy that is comparable in size to the U.S.?

Poll: China viewed more favorable and powerful

"The poll also shows that 44 percent of the public believes China is the world's leading economic power, while just 27 percent chose the US. In February 2008, 41 percent said the US was the top economic power and only 30 percent said China."

A plurality of Americans believe that "China is the world's leading economic power." Do you believe that this is the "same kind of nonsense that was bandied about japan doing the Americans in?"

 

[Martian]

Even their hallmark shipbuilding industry is European designed and supplemented. They import propulsion systems, electronics, almost the whole works in many cases. Most of their input is building cheap hulls. Even their domestic high-speed rail lines have been opened up to European bids due to the difficulties they cannot overcome.

Top LNG ship takes shape in Shanghai

Russia ready to build first LNG carrier - BarentsObserver

"China's first self-made liquefied natural gas (LNG) carrier, which is taking shape in dry dock in Shanghai, has a price tag larger than that of a Boeing 747."

It is false to claim that China's "input is building cheap hulls."

For example, China builds high-tech and expensive liquefied natural gas (LNG) ships. China built her first LNG ship in 2005. Russia is building her first LNG ship in 2009. With regards to LNG ship building, Russia is four years behind China.

 

[Martian]

Chinese industrial revolution is 100 years after US industrial revolution. Chinese GDP is 6,000 dollars per person US GDP is 48,000 per person; where does this make China close to USA? Also Chinese demographics will be unfavorable in about 10-15 years.

There are advantages to modernizing at a later date.

For example, China has saved a lot of money in skipping a land-based telephone network. There is no need to lay thousands of miles of copper cables for land-based telephone lines. Mobile phones and base stations are far more efficient.

Similarly, China has also saved lots of money in avoiding laying copper cables for cable tv service. Instead, China can rely on satellite-based television channels.

Thirdly, due to the invention of fiber-optic cables, China has saved another bundle of money. Instead of costly and low-bandwidth copper cables, China can use high-capacity fiber-optics cables for internet service.

Fourthly, China's high-speed rail network averages approximately 210 miles per hour (i.e. 350 km/h). Next year, China will start testing her 300 miles per hour (i.e. 500 km/h) train. The average American Amtrak train travels at 60 miles per hour (i.e. 100 km/h). China's train network is far more efficient than the U.S. Furthermore, the low-grade American train tracks and sharp turns prevent the U.S. from upgrading the train network.

The point is that there are many advantages to industrializing at a later date. A country can take advantage of more advanced technology that has been developed.

 

[Vladimir79]

Top LNG ship takes shape in Shanghai

Russia ready to build first LNG carrier - BarentsObserver

"China's first self-made liquefied natural gas (LNG) carrier, which is taking shape in dry dock in Shanghai, has a price tag larger than that of a Boeing 747."

It is false to claim that China's "input is building cheap hulls."

For example, China builds high-tech and expensive liquefied natural gas (LNG) ships. China built her first LNG ship in 2005. Russia is building her first LNG ship in 2009. With regards to LNG ship building, Russia is four years behind China.

Spare me...

The first Chinese liquefied natural gas carrier, "Dapeng Sun", has just been delivered to its owners China LNG Shipping. The LNG carrier has been built in the framework of a Cooperation Agreement between Hudong-Zhonghua Shipbuilding (Group) Co., a yard of China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC) and Aker Yards in France, former Chantiers de l'Atlantique. Aker Yards has provided the design as well as technical assistance throughout the entire construction and testing period.

2009 - STX Europe AS

Now look at it...

Cloudy outlook for Dapeng Sun

Singapore: She was delivered six months late with reports of certain lingering malfunctions and now they have come home to roost. China’s first domestically built LNG carrier, Dapeng Sun, built at Hudong-Zhonghua to much fanfare for China LNG Shipping Holdings (CLNG), a joint venture company by China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC), COSCO and China Merchants Holdings Co. (CMHC), has headed to Singapore for urgent repairs just 14 months after she was completed. Classed by ABS, the ship is now at Sembawang Shipyard with reported issues regarding contamination of the bearing oil for the stern tube.


Ship Chartering: Cloudy outlook for Dapeng Sun

'Dapeng Sun' repair work delayed

Repairs to China's first LNG newbuilding might take longer than expected as more problems with the vessel are investigated.

Industry sources have said the 147,000-cbm Dapeng Sun (built 2008) will remain at Sembawang Shipyard in Singapore for repairs until the end of July.

The yard has been trying to resolve microbiological contamination of the ship's stern bearing oil, which has resulted in the need for frequent filter changes.

But those following the repairs say other problems such as vibration issues are lengthening the repair job.

The Dapeng Sun arrived at the yard in mid-June. Work on the vessel, which is employed shipping cargoes from Australia's North West Shelf project into China's Guangdong LNG terminal, was due to take between 10 and 12 days with the ship set to return to service early this month.

'Dapeng Sun' repair work delayed

You still want to lecture me on Chinese shipbuilding?

 

[Martian]

Spare you what? The facts haven't changed. Russia is still four years behind China in building her first LNG ship. Why are you surprised that minor problems have to be solved for a new technological capability? Are you not aware that Russia is still working on solving Bulava's technological problems after many years?

Russian shipbuilding is not exactly world class. Currently, Russia is considering buying a helicopter carrier from France.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20091203/157086584.html

If Russia is having problems designing and building a modern helicopter carrier, do you believe that Russia won't require assistance in designing her first LNG ship? Do you also believe that Russia's first LNG ship will be completely problem-free?

Have you forgotten Russia's problems in refurbishing the Gorshkov? How about the billions of dollars in cost overruns and years of delay? What does that say about the state of Russian shipbuilding?

 

[StealthSniper]

let just wait and see.

This year, Chinese shipbuilding has already left S.Korea and Japan way behind. making use of the cirsis, CHinese shipbuilding industry grab 50%+ new additional orders of shipbuilding this year.

in 5 years at most, CHinese auto manufacturing will rule the world and corner all non-Chinese auto manufacturing.

Today, Chinese J10 is challenging the market of Yankee's F16 serioulsy.

In 10-15 years, CHinese commerical aircraft-manufacturing will challeng Boeing and Airbus.

Yankees are retreating along the value chain day by day....what will be yankee's last defensive line?

No offense but are you dreaming?

Who is in the process of making a aircraft carrier? India


Who has huge car companies that sell worldwide and have bought Jaguar and Land Rover? India

By the way the Tata Nano kicked butt against your Chinese made Brilliance car in crash testing. (And that's the cheapest car India makes)


And the J-10 is challenging crap considering the Americans are more afraid of our Mig-21 Bisons then your J-10.


Nuff said.:icon_salut:

 

[StealthSniper]

I am quite tired of your attitude to CHina.

however ,anyhow, I can guarantee to you that in 5 years some of your neighbours will buy chinese-made cars.

I am quite tired of your patriotic attitude and you ignoring facts. I will never buy a Chinese car and nobody else in the western world either after the BRILLIANT performance your Brilliance did in crash testing.


Chinese car:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHZqcKj7jNM



India's cheapest car in the world:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahw7...A80A493D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12

Just face it, nobody likes cheap made in China products. That's why people spend more and buy expensive Japanese and German products. And pretty soon India products.

 

[badguy2000]

No offense but are you dreaming?

Who is in the process of making a aircraft carrier? India


Who has huge car companies that sell worldwide and have bought Jaguar and Land Rover? India

By the way the Tata Nano kicked butt against your Chinese made Brilliance car in crash testing. (And that's the cheapest car India makes)


And the J-10 is challenging crap considering the Americans are more afraid of our Mig-21 Bisons then your J-10.


Nuff said.:icon_salut:

no offense...

what India is good at is "to do" ,instead of "have done".....

can you assure that "AC made in India" would not be another "Arjun" or "LCA"?.

and I am quite sure that that AC "made in China" would roll out before 2015.
just let's wait and see which on earth will come out more early.

as for cars made in India.... the total autu production in India is less than that of FAC,the second biggest auto company...

 

[Martian]

No offense but are you dreaming?

Who is in the process of making a aircraft carrier? India


Who has huge car companies that sell worldwide and have bought Jaguar and Land Rover? India

By the way the Tata Nano kicked butt against your Chinese made Brilliance car in crash testing. (And that's the cheapest car India makes)


And the J-10 is challenging crap considering the Americans are more afraid of our Mig-21 Bisons then your J-10.


Nuff said.:icon_salut:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...headline=China Promises New, Advanced Fighter

"China's J-10 strike fighter, which has an F-16-like capability, is considered the country's best indigenous effort...."

To be fair, the Western press agrees with China in saying that the J-10 is roughly equivalent to the F-16 in capability.

 

[Vladimir79]

US-China Trade Statistics and China's World Trade Statistics

As indicated in Table 5, China's top two export categories are "Electrical machinery & equipment" and "Power generation equipment." They account for a total of $610.6 billion US dollars in exports.

Given that the majority of China's exports are electrical machinery and power generation equipment, do you still believe that China produces "low end goods?"

Instead of looking at it with only one eye, open the other and look at Chinese imports. China exports the low tech goods and imports the high tech. The trade imablance was impressive for 2008, but they have come down drastically in 2009. For China to be making any headway, she has to stop the increase of foreign imports and rely on high tech domestic products, this is not happening.

 

[Vladimir79]

Spare you what? The facts haven't changed. Russia is still four years behind China in building her first LNG ship. Why are you surprised that minor problems have to be solved for a new technological capability? Are you not aware that Russia is still working on solving Bulava's technological problems after many years?

Russian shipbuilding is not exactly world class. Currently, Russia is considering buying a helicopter carrier from France.

Putin reiterates need for military reform to ensure security | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

If Russia is having problems designing and building a modern helicopter carrier, do you believe that Russia won't require assistance in designing her first LNG ship? Do you also believe that Russia's first LNG ship will be completely problem-free?

Have you forgotten Russia's problems in refurbishing the Gorshkov? How about the billions of dollars in cost overruns and years of delay? What does that say about the state of Russian shipbuilding?

Everyone is well aware of the pathetic shape of Russian shipbuilding. This thread is about China being the new US. The thought of it is quite ludacris once you know the facts.

 

[Rage]

no offense...

what India is good at is "to do" ,instead of "have done".....

can you assure that "AC made in India" would not be another "Arjun" or "LCA"?.

and I am quite sure that that AC "made in China" would roll out before 2015.
just let's wait and see which on earth will come out more early.

as for cars made in India.... the total autu production in India is less than that of FAC,the second biggest auto company...

No offence, but two decades of a head start in economic liberalization would expect one to have China to "have done" more than India is "doing". Nevertheless, we are catching up, and faster than you can say "boo", han.


"In 2009, India emerged as Asia's fourth largest exporter of automobiles, behind Japan, South Korea and Thailand."

"Helped by cheaper labor and a surging local market, India this year overtook China in auto exports and is challenging Thailand and South Korea as an alternative production center in Asia."

Suzuki, Hyundai?s Indian Car Exports Beat China?s (Update2) - Bloomberg.com


"India Poised to Grow Faster Than China Among Top Automakers "

India Poised to Grow Faster Than China Among Top Automakers - Bloomberg.com


"India has the edge over China in car exports as big automakers move to India. Beijing, for its part, is trying to pump up domestic demand through policies that facilitate personal credit.

Helped by lower labour costs and cheaper raw materials (more than 10 per cent compared to Europe and the United States), India is becoming a growing market for minicars and compact vehicles. The sector’s growth has also been nudged by a lower manufacturing tax (8 per cent excise duty) and, unlike China, Indian authorities do not require foreign companies to set up joint ventures with at least 50 per cent capital held by local partners.

Big carmakers, especially those from Asia like the Suzuki Motor Corporation, Hyundai Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. are expanding their Indian platforms to export compact vehicles at the expense of other countries like Thailand and South Korea.

This year exports by Maruti Suzuki India more than doubled to 79,860 vehicles. In August alone it exported 14,847 vehicles and aims to ship 130,000 vehicles during the current fiscal year.

According to data released by the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers, India's total exports in the first seven months of this year rose 18 per cent per cent to 229,809, including mini cars and hatchbacks which gained 44 per cent. By 2015 small cars will account for 95 percent of the 690,000 passenger vehicles India will export.

In contrast, China’s exports slumped 60 percent to 164,800 between January and July. The same happened to vehicles produced in Thailand whose export declined by 43 per cent whilst South Korean exports dropped 31 per cent."

INDIA ? CHINA India and China, future car giants - Asia News l 09/09/2009

 

[StealthSniper]

China Promises New, Advanced Fighter | AVIATION WEEK

"China's J-10 strike fighter, which has an F-16-like capability, is considered the country's best indigenous effort...."

To be fair, the Western press agrees with China in saying that the J-10 is roughly equivalent to the F-16 in capability.

Well I just find it funny that a plane made in China with a Russian engine has finally caught up to a 30 year old American fighter. Good for you China. I bet you they borrowed a F-16 from Pakistan, made a bad copy of it and made it a J-10.

 

[Rage]

no offense...

what India is good at is "to do" ,instead of "have done".....

can you assure that "AC made in India" would not be another "Arjun" or "LCA"?.

and I am quite sure that that AC "made in China" would roll out before 2015.
just let's wait and see which on earth will come out more early.

as for cars made in India.... the total autu production in India is less than that of FAC,the second biggest auto company...

Let's see guy:

Status: First indigenous aircraft carrier to be launched next year: Navy chief

If, by the end of next year, the aircraft carrier is not launched, I will publicly apologize to you. If not, you will publicly eat your words han.