To Meet Indian Concerns, China Offers to Re-Name China-Pakistan Economic Corridor

[prasadr14]

Bollocks loosing states. Pakistan can destroy large Indian cities not states.China however is a different kettle of fish. It can destroy whole states in India. Moreover pressure from west with islamic nations uniting against India will be too much for it to fight China. All this 2 front war talk is hot air.

I really don't think you got your bearings on mate.
IF Pakis use nuke bomb on Indian soil, it gives India every right to nuke each and every corner of Pak...China would have no say. In fact China would shut it's trap and let India destroy Pakis..

There would not be a single country in the world that would blink India retaliation on Pak, if they attack us with nukes first.
Sorry to say this but you have no grasp on international politics.

No country can look to be supporting a nation that used a nuke first on other country.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

At least I didn't see any Chinese here advocating nuclear war. On the other hand, in this forum, there are quite a lot Indian kids discuss the potential damage of nuclear war as if they are talking about a bush walking after daily lunch.

Talking about potential nuke war scenario is not same as advocating nuke war. Pakistan is a critically unstable state which uses terror under nuclear umbrella. Discussing nuclear war scenario between India and Pak is realism not war mongering.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

I really don't think you got your bearings on mate.
IF Pakis use nuke bomb on Indian soil, it gives India every right to nuke each and every corner of Pak...China would have no say. In fact China would shut it's trap and let India destroy Pakis..

There would not be a single country in the world that would blink India retaliation on Pak, if they attack us with nukes first.
Sorry to say this but you have no grasp on international politics.

No country can look to be supporting a nation that used a nuke first on other country.

Islamic unity and rise of caliphate will happen AFTER Pak is destroyed by Indian nukes not before. I am afraid people here have not done any scenario analysis. If we do it honestly we will find that India needs an army of atleast 3 million and defence budget of atleast USD 100bn to fight what is going to be a multifront war, not even a 2 front war.

 

[IndianHawk]

Islamic unity and rise of caliphate will happen AFTER Pak is destroyed by Indian nukes not before. I am afraid people here have not done any scenario analysis. If we do it honestly we will find that India needs an army of atleast 3 million and defence budget of atleast USD 100bn to fight what is going to be a multifront war, not even a 2 front war.

India can have an army of 30 million when war comes calling. The problem is weapon and ammunition production we suck at both of them . Our peace time budget is already 50billion under a world war like scenario we might find ourselves spending upto 200 billion(around 10%of GDP just as Saudi Arabia).

But more practically there is no such thing as Islamic unity. Iran and arabs would never unite. Shia and Sunni will never come to peace. Islam is after all a tribal way of life all they know is to kill each other rape their own sisters and grab whatever they can.

Anyway with oil income going kaput let's see how long Islamic nations stand against grinding poverty that might befall upon them very soon.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

India can have an army of 30 million when war comes calling. The problem is weapon and ammunition production we suck at both of them . Our peace time budget is already 50billion under a world war like scenario we might find ourselves spending upto 200 billion(around 10%of GDP just as Saudi Arabia).

But more practically there is no such thing as Islamic unity. Iran and arabs would never unite. Shia and Sunni will never come to peace. Islam is after all a tribal way of life all they know is to kill each other rape their own sisters and grab whatever they can.

Anyway with oil income going kaput let's see how long Islamic nations stand against grinding poverty that might befall upon them very soon.

Not now. But after Indo Pak war when whole cities in muslim land pakistan are turned to ashes (and vice versa) all muslims will be united in a single alliance. Pakistan movement was born after fall of caliphate and Pakistan's death will give birth to the caliphate. Once that happens, India will face an army of tens of millions of muslims and most likely we will loose our northern plains (upto Varanasi) for 2 decades before a fightback from south central India begins.

 

[roma]

@Tarun Kumar @prasadr14 @IndianHawk @bipin


to handle pakistan nukes are Not required

nukes are their threat of last resort and we should be held back by such threats .....we should go ahead with surgical strikes or far better we should go ahead with social engineering

social engineering in pakcland is far better then surgical strikes and it should continue unabated and silently

however we should be prepared for the da y that some guy in pakland feeling that the whole thing is going down, will press a nuke button , then we have to retaliate with taking Lahore and islamabad and karachi preferably without nukes because nukes wont really do the job

but surgical strikes and assassination squads would be the way to go - take out certain individuals or groups like ISI and a couple of others and the nation is without leadership and without economy.

save the nukes in case china gets involved ! yeah our nukes ar not for packkland they are not really worthy of our nukes , rather our nukes are for Hong Kong or shanghai if china pokes their nose into our brotherly areas

If china is smart they would realise they have a huge nation and it is better to leave packland to india and let us solve our family feud on our own

to handle packland it is better done without nukes and social engineering factors and economic factor i.e espionage is far better

Not now. But after Indo Pak war when whole cities in muslim land pakistan are turned to ashes (and vice versa) all muslims will be united in a single alliance. Pakistan movement was born after fall of caliphate and Pakistan's death will give birth to the caliphate. Once that happens, India will face an army of tens of millions of muslims and most likely we will loose our northern plains (upto Varanasi) for 2 decades before a fightback from south central India begins.

v unlikely anything of the sort will happen , by my reckoning

usa, west and israel are working hand in glove to make sure islam is de-armed and that in a couple of decades from now will basically amount to nothing

any rioting or rebellion in india could by then be easily handled by police or perhaps with some help from para-military

 

[no smoking]

Talking about potential nuke war scenario is not same as advocating nuke war. Pakistan is a critically unstable state which uses terror under nuclear umbrella. Discussing nuclear war scenario between India and Pak is realism not war mongering.

But claiming India can walk out of a nuclear war without significant loss is lot worse than advocating nuke war.
None of P5 public shares the same opinion. All of them believe there will be huge loss on themselves in any nuclear war against any nuclear armed country. This public opinion is one of the major reasons that cold war didn't turn into world war 3. In India, we can't find this. Instead, too many keyboard warriors sing the song of nuclear war. That is very dangerous.

 

[no smoking]

I really don't think you got your bearings on mate.

IF Pakis use nuke bomb on Indian soil, it gives India every right to nuke each and every corner of Pak...China would have no say. In fact China would shut it's trap and let India destroy Pakis..


There would not be a single country in the world that would blink India retaliation on Pak, if they attack us with nukes first.

Sorry to say this but you have no grasp on international politics.


No country can look to be supporting a nation that used a nuke first on other country.

Really? No country will support a nation that uses a nuke first on other country?


I got one example for you, US used a nuke first on Japan in 1945, twice, did any country support her at the time? A lot!


US threated to initiate a nuclear first in cuba crisis, did any country support her? A lot!


Soviet threated to destroy China with using nuke first, did any country support her? A lot!


Soviet threated to intervene middle east war with using nuke first, did any country support her? A lot!


Using nuke first is not a problem, the problem is what is the threshold of your nuclear war.


If Pakistan is losing a full war so badly but Indian army is still marching towards her capital, do you think the whole world would blame whom for the nuclear war, India or Pakistan?

 

[Villager]

If Pakistan is losing a full war so badly but Indian army is still marching towards her capital, do you think the whole world would blame whom for the nuclear war, India or Pakistan?

Depends on the objectives of Participants.

When did Soviet threaten China with nuke, didn't they help you build it?

Edit: It will go off topic but I don't think there is much to discuss in thread, so I wanted to ask if you have read history of India-Pakistan? If you did, what are your views about India-Pakistan issues, what seems to be the cause of conflict in your eyes between the two of us, what is the solution from your point of view?

I have no Chinese perspective on India-Pak issues? Diplomatically, you would ask to solve our issues bilaterally but everyone has got some view on who is at fault or what the actual issue is?

 

[bipin]

None of P5 public shares the same opinion.

Really nobody in Russia or USA or UK. I dont buy that.

This public opinion is one of the major reasons that cold war didn't turn into world war 3. In India, we can't find this.

Based on this forum - a place where people discuss topics on defence you are getting the popular opinion of the country. You need to start thinking before talking.

You need to get our perspective because if you wont then you dont qualify to give us any advice. You dont have to deal with country like Pakistan/North Korea. You think US never contemplates nuclear war with NK. For sure they do. So save me your moral arguments.

 

[Rudra Mahalaya]

10 12 cities ? Pakistan have almost 200 nukes. Undoubtly we will lost 50+ tier 1 ans 2 cities. Most likely more.

And whole North west India will get devastated from Jammu Punjab to Gujarat. For what ? A fucking Snow capped Shithall in middle of Himalayas.


And we will not allow anybody whos living 1000s of kms aways from border decide our fate.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

T

10 12 cities ? Pakistan have almost 200 nukes. Undoubtly we will lost 50+ tier 1 ans 2 cities. Most likely more.

And whole North west India will get devastated from Jammu Punjab to Gujarat. For what ? A fucking Snow capped Shithall in middle of Himalayas.

And we will not allow anybody whos living 1000s of kms aways from border decide our fate.

This is the sad commentary of most liberal Indians which has led us to this point. When Ghazni was invading they said he is just a raider,(never mind that he lopped off heads of 1000s of people), when pakistan was created, they said oh good riddance. Gentlemen Kashmir is not a shithole in Himalyas, it is part of Indian heartland. If you want to invade Indian heartland, u will do it through Kashmir which is why Pakis want it. And it is our failure, our inefficiency that this 2 bit bankrupt gangster nation threatens us. Most big power silently smirk at us when India Pakistan fight because it shows the Indian ruling elite as to who they really are-arrogant but foolish and maleable pack of cards. Pakistan is a symbol of our collective civilization failure as Indians, lack of accountability and work ethics (which is why missiles decade after deployment fail in routine launch and we face routine nuke threats). I am not advocating nuclear war nor am I ignoring the devastation of nuclear weapons. I have always believed that we must respond to pakistan tactically on LOC and covertly in their heartland short of going to war. I also believe that it is high time we focus like laser for quantum jump in our military capability through more missiles (nuclear and conventional), greater reliability of weapons, development of high energy weapons etc etc -and to do that we must hold everyone-DRDO, Military, Babus accountable . But there might and there will come a time when your threshold is crossed by the Pakis. At that time GOI must use nuclear weapons in a first strike and nothing short. If destroying Pak is the only way to secure India's future as a MEASURE OF LAST RESORT then we must build capability towards that end and must have iron will to use that capability. Nor do I believe that India will come unscathed but loosing millions or 10s of millions will be better for future of rest of 1.3BILLION Indians if this problem called Pakistan is ended once and for all if threshold is crossed. Sometimes civilizations have to cross rivers of blood to reach the other shore, sometimes peace comes through war and sometimes sword is better than books. If only a New World Order can secure the future of India, we must as a MEASURE OF LAST RESORT be ready to wage a world war and build capability to wage a world war.Nothing more and Nothing less.

PS: In WW2 Berlin was destroyed by bombs equivalent to dozens of nukes. Today berlin is a thriving city. Same for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[Rudra Mahalaya]

T

This is the sad commentary of most liberal Indians which has led us to this point. When Ghazni was invading they said he is just a raider,(never mind that he lopped off heads of 1000s of people), when pakistan was created, they said oh good riddance. Gentlemen Kashmir is not a shithole in Himalyas, it is part of Indian heartland. If you want to invade Indian heartland, u will do it through Kashmir which is why Pakis want it. And it is our failure, our inefficiency that this 2 bit bankrupt gangster nation threatens us. Most big power silently smirk at us when India Pakistan fight because it shows the Indian ruling elite as to who they really are-arrogant but foolish and maleable pack of cards. Pakistan is a symbol of our collective civilization failure as Indians, lack of accountability and work ethics (which is why missiles decade after deployment fail in routine launch and we face routine nuke threats). I am not advocating nuclear war nor am I ignoring the devastation of nuclear weapons. I have always believed that we must respond to pakistan tactically on LOC and covertly in their heartland short of going to war. I also believe that it is high time we focus like laser for quantum jump in our military capability through more missiles (nuclear and conventional), greater reliability of weapons, development of high energy weapons etc etc -and to do that we must hold everyone-DRDO, Military, Babus accountable . But there might and there will come a time when your threshold is crossed by the Pakis. At that time GOI must use nuclear weapons in a first strike and nothing short. If destroying Pak is the only way to secure India's future as a MEASURE OF LAST RESORT then we must build capability towards that end and must have iron will to use that capability. Nor do I believe that India will come unscathed but loosing millions or 10s of millions will be better for future of rest of 1.3BILLION Indians if this problem called Pakistan is ended once and for all if threshold is crossed. Sometimes civilizations have to cross rivers of blood to reach the other shore, sometimes peace comes through war and sometimes sword is better than books. If only a New World Order can secure the future of India, we must as a MEASURE OF LAST RESORT be ready to wage a world war and build capability to wage a world war.Nothing more and Nothing less.

PS: In WW2 Berlin was destroyed by bombs equivalent to dozens of nukes. Today berlin is a thriving city. Same for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

In 1963 gujarat lost 828 square km land to pakistan. I dont see you crying for our land...

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

In 1963 gujarat lost 828 square km land to pakistan. I dont see you crying for our land...

I don't see gujaratis crying for it either...

 

[Rudra Mahalaya]

I don't see gujaratis crying for it either...

Almost every gujarati i know knows about this. What can we do when we are under serve occupation.

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

Almost every gujarati i know knows about this. What can we do when we are under serve occupation.

whos occupation? Gujju PM Modis?

 

[no smoking]

Depends on the objectives of Participants.

So, this proves to prasadr14: country can get support for first use of nuke.

When did Soviet threaten China with nuke, didn't they help you build it?

Yes, they helped at the beginning, then withdrew in 1960. In 1969, when two sides conflicted on border, Soviet informed American their plan of nuclear attack on major Chinese cities, it was Americans saved China by rejecting Russians' request of keeping neutral.

Edit:

It will go off topic but I don't think there is much to discuss in thread, so I wanted to ask if you have read history of India-Pakistan? If you did, what are your views about India-Pakistan issues, what seems to be the cause of conflict in your eyes between the two of us, what is the solution from your point of view? I have no Chinese perspective on India-Pak issues? Diplomatically, you would ask to solve our issues bilaterally but everyone has got some view on who is at fault or what the actual issue is?

It is not for any third party to decide who is right and who is wrong. This kind of hostility root from history is always hard to define simply by right and wrong. There are too many similar disputes in this world, they always start with: your grandfather killed my grandfather, my father killed your father. Both sides can always find reason to blame other sides. When both sides are keen to find out whose fault it is, basically, there is no solution at all.

 

[no smoking]

Really nobody in Russia or USA or UK. I dont buy that.

Thanks to the national anti-nuclear drills in these 5 countries, we saw enough horrible pictures, losses predictions and damage education. After all these, you really don't want any nuclear war.

Based on this forum - a place where people discuss topics on defence you are getting the popular opinion of the country. You need to start thinking before talking.

This is a military forum, the people coming here generally have more military knowledge than general public. If the people here have no good awareness about the damage of nuclear war, then I don't think the public of India would be better.

You need to get our perspective because if you wont then you dont qualify to give us any advice. You dont have to deal with country like Pakistan/North Korea. You think US never contemplates nuclear war with NK. For sure they do. So save me your moral arguments.

Well, Pakistan/North Korea are not democratic countries, public opinion doesn't affect military leaders decision. But India is, and your military is under greater influence of public opinion than any democratic country in the world. So, that is more scary.

 

[IndianHawk]

But claiming India can walk out of a nuclear war without significant loss is lot worse than advocating nuke war.

I don't think anyone believes that. Indians are acutely aware of the dangers of nuclear war. That is why India opts for no first use doctrine (till now).

The problem is pakistan keeps threatening India with nuclear war that too from official sources such as its defense minister.

In such scenario it is important to remind pakistan that nuclear war while would be disastrous for India it would simply be the end of pakistan. India will not die .
Thus onus to tone down nuke rhetoric lies with pakistan which has not yet declared no first use.

I don't think India or china ever threathened each other with nuclear war.

Now about public opinion that pretty bad in India with respect to pakistan. I personally used to believe that india pak should have good neighborly relationship but after Mumbai attack and pakistani justification for terrorism I have given up on peace with pak.

Mind you Chinese support for paki jehadis will only sow seeds of enmity between India and China . Average Indian doesn't know much about border clash / dispute in Arunachal / axai chin but chinese support for terrorism hits a raw nerve.

The faster the Chinese learn that better the chance of improving relationship.

 

[Villager]

This kind of hostility root from history is always hard to define simply by right and wrong. There are too many similar disputes in this world, they always start with: your grandfather killed my grandfather, my father killed your father. Both sides can always find reason to blame other sides. When both sides are keen to find out whose fault it is, basically, there is no solution at all.

I don't get this part. Are you saying you have no clue of the root cause of India-Pak tensions or are you being diplomatic to be in line with Chinese state policies?

There are too many similar disputes in this world, they always start with: your grandfather killed my grandfather, my father killed your father.

There aren't too many similar disputes. Pakistanis are basically Indian Muslims, majority of whom wanted or at least voted for a separate nation. There wasn't historical hostility between the two communities. The prime argument for a separate nation by Jinnah was the possibility of Muslims well being ignored by Hindu majority resulting in socio-economic backwardness in the new nation. Britishers for quite a long time along with Americans propagated that it was Hindus and Muslims who hated each other. British guys still do that although I occasionally find articles that says British misunderstood the real situation back then. Pretty certain if Indian were to be replaced by Chinese, you would not have allowed even the thought of separate nation by any specific community.

When both sides are keen to find out whose fault it is, basically, there is no solution at all.

Are you sure, you got my question? Atleast the Indian side has for the most part been willing to ignore Pakistan's error and hand in religous extremism and ready to talk on and amend our own errors but Pakistan with Jinnah's death amd military take over ditched the possibility of any reconciliations.