Tibet Continues to Burn

Ray

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1 i ve said....which ever source u wanna use is not something i need to care..... what i do care is if truth is being presented....u can believe what ever Epoch Times has to say.....just like they used to say chinas space walk was made up and video shot under water etc....u can feel free to believe that while after hearing that i went to offical NASA site to check it out and the site which had been recording each settalite launch of every nation can easily tell me it was prc lying or epochtimes lying.....if u wanna believe the later then no1s gonna stop u anyway......

2 which doesnt mean epochtimes never gives correct info just like Arundhati Roy......what i mean is we need to judge if its true if we dont believe....

3 other muslims who have converted to hindus include Kushboo Sundar and Nargis etc u can check if u want....of coz if u just dont wanna accept the fact that muslims r being converted to hindus then nothing more i can say......

4 Sinicization is culture influence or chinese tryingto make things from overseas get more chinese vibe....which doesnt mean we r making tibetans hans....check the definition then try to make yourself look like a sino expert....
How convenient.

The tune changes to suit the flavour!

The Chinese are good to make black look white.

So Sinicisation is a cultural imposition.

Why blame Hitler with his Aryan supremacy stuff. It was only a cultural thing he was doing, right?
 

no smoking

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So far 47 Tibetans have self immolated against the Chinese rule.
After 47 lives were sacrificed, there is still no armed fight from tibetans? I would say Dalai lama and his religion are losing their influence among ordinary tibetans

Money and economic development has not changed the attitude of the Tibetans.
No one is expecting to change the attitude of the tibebans in one generation.
If we have a closer look at these tibetan protests, we can see that ordinary tibetans are protesting for economic inequality while lamas are fighting for the religionous cause.
I would say that is a good sign for China and CCP. As long as the tibetans focus on seeking their modern life, Dalai has much less to offer than Chinese gov.
 

Ray

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After 47 lives were sacrificed, there is still no armed fight from tibetans? I would say Dalai lama and his religion are losing their influence among ordinary tibetans
They are a peaceful lot.

Xinjiang Uighurs are the ones to watch out for!

Muslims don't take nonsense.



No one is expecting to change the attitude of the tibebans in one generation.
If we have a closer look at these tibetan protests, we can see that ordinary tibetans are protesting for economic inequality while lamas are fighting for the religionous cause.
I would say that is a good sign for China and CCP. As long as the tibetans focus on seeking their modern life, Dalai has much less to offer than Chinese gov.
Are the Tibetans are protesting against the inequalities?

They did have an uprising a few years back though.
 

huaxia rox

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surely its very convenient for me coz i m siding with the truth while where on earth r u?my hindu friend......

when i said muslims have been converting to hindus u just kept denying....as if it was something u can really hide....

when i said no tibetans r getting converted to hans u said there was....and then u cant even name 1 person who used to be tibentan then converted to han.......when u r lying of coz u cant find anything convenient for u....is that very odds???

in terms of your aryan supremacy thing.....your fomer hindu leader bose is a close follower of nazi germany....u should have known better than i do about the natzi ideology......
 

Ray

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surely its very convenient for me coz i m siding with the truth while where on earth r u?my hindu friend......

when i said muslims have been converting to hindus u just kept denying....as if it was something u can really hide....

when i said no tibetans r getting converted to hans u said there was....and then u cant even name 1 person who used to be tibentan then converted to han.......when u r lying of coz u cant find anything convenient for u....is that very odds???

in terms of your aryan supremacy thing.....your fomer hindu leader bose is a close follower of nazi germany....u should have known better than i do about the natzi ideology......
Because you are a Communist and that too from China, you have no idea of any religion and its practice.

Muslim will not convert, try as you might, as you have experienced in Xinjiang, No draconian order or the type of atrocities that China has unleashed in Xinjiang has been able to covert them to even obey the Chinese diktats.

Conversion is not that easy for a Muslim for the simple reason is because a person commits apostasy (irtidad) or becomes an apostate (murtadd) if he describes himself a Muslim and then at a later time Converts to another religion, e.g. becomes a Christian or Buddhist or Baha`i etc.

Once a person enters into the fold of Islam, the rules change. As soon as you become a Muslim by your own choice, you are expected to submit yourself to Allah totally and completely. "O You who believe! Enter into submission, kaffatan!" (2:208) K?ffatan in the sense of "all" and "completely". Once a person becomes a believer, he surrenders the right of making decisions to Allah and Messenger: "No believing man and no believing woman has a choice in their own affairs when Allah and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36)

Even the terms used by the shari'a for apostates give the idea of treason to this whole phenomenon. "Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli.

(1) Murtad Fitri means a person born of a Muslim parent and then he rejects Islam. Fitri means nature or natural. The term "murtad fitri" implies that the person has apostated from his nature, the nature of believing in God.

(2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam and then later on he rejects Islam. Milli is from millat which means a community. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person has apostated from his community.

In the first case, the apostacy is like treason against God; whereas in the second case, the apostacy is like treason against the Muslim community. Probably, that is why there is also a difference in dealing with these two kinds of murtads:

A former kafir who became a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents, then he is not to be killed.
But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Fitri) he is to be killed even if he repents. His repentance might be accepted by Allah but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.


This punishment is only applicable in case of apostacy by men; in case of women, the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is suspended.

In the writings of some of the mujtahideen, I have sensed that the punishment of a murtad is to be implemented only in daru 'l-Islam (i.e., the Muslim world) and not if the murtad flees to daru 'l-kufr (i.e., the abode of kufr).

What are the sources for these laws? The sources on which these punishments have been outlined in the shara'a are the authentic and reliable ahadith from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.). Those who know Arabic and have the aptitude to handle the fiqh istidlali text may refer to the late Ayatullah al-Khu'i's Takmilatu Minhaju 's-Salihiyn, vol. 1, pp. 324-337 for the ahadith used by our jurists.

This is not a new issue or a controversial one among the Shi'a jurists. Even the scholars of the past centuries had the same views; for example, Shaykh at-Tusi (d. 460 AH) in an-Nihaya; Ibn Idris (d. 598 A.H.) in as-Sara'ir; Ibn Hamza at-Tusi in al-Wasila, al-Muhaqqiq al-Hilli (d. 676 A.H.) in Sharaya'u 'l-Islam, al-'Allama al-Hilli (d. 726 A.H.) in Qawa'idu 'l-Ahkam, and the First Martyr (d. 786 A.H.) and the Second Martyr in Sharhu 'l-Lum'ati 'd-Dimishqiyya.
Those who might suspect a division on this issue between the "usuli" and the "akhbari" schools, they should know that even the muhaddithin have chapters in their collections of hadith on "the punishment for murtad" citing the ahadith on this subject. See, for example, Shaykh Hurr al-'Amili, who has seven pages of ahadith under the title "abwab haddi 'l-murtad - sections on the punishment for murtad" in volume 18 of his Wasa'ilu 'sh-Shi'a.

(Apostacy (Irtidad) in Islam || Imam Reza (A.S.) Network)

That apart, what is this 'my Hindu friend'? India is not of Hindus alone and so you make the mistake of calling me a Hindu friend? What makes you believe I am not of some other religion, which maybe the case.

The Chinese history (as I have shown many a time through links from books on Chinese history) that 'barbarians' have been converted to Han. Even in the Chinese book that is quoted so extensively by the Chinese - Sima Qian 'Records of the Grand Historian', a "Jizhuanti"-style general history of China, covering more than two thousand years from the Yellow Emperor to Emperor Wu of Han, he speaks of the 'Barbarians' who became Han.

So, even by the great annals of Chinese history, it is mentioned of the barbarians, who after capture, was made into Han. More like what Hitler tried.

The Baiyue, Hundred Yue or Yue is a loose term denoting various partly Sinicized or un-Sinicized peoples who inhabited southern China and northern Vietnam between the first millennium BC and the first millennium AD. In the Warring States period, the word "Yue" referred to the State of Yue in Zhejiang. The later kingdoms of Minyue in Fujian and Nanyue in Guangdong are both considered Baiyue states. Although people of Yue had a knowledge of agriculture and technology of shipbuilding, Chinese writers depicted the Yue as barbarians who had tattoos, lived in primitive conditions, and lacked such technology as bows, arrows, horses and chariots. The Baiyue have been compared to the lost tribes of Israel, with a great deal of speculation among Chinese historians concerning who they were and what happened to them. Connecting them to existing peoples in South China led to questions concerning the Chinese character of the South, while connecting them to the Vietnamese might validate nationalistic Vietnamese views. Many of the ethnic groups now inhabiting southern China and northern Vietnam are thought to be descendants of the Baiyue or have some connection to the ancient Baiyue. Variations of the name are still used in both the name of Vietnam and the abbreviation for Guangdong.
 

Ray

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your fomer hindu leader bose is a close follower of nazi germany
What has Netaji Subash Bose to do with Hitler?

There are many Communists as also Nixon and Kissinger who have met Mao Tse Tung.

Does that make them Communist/ barbarians who condone the massacre of the Cultural Revolution or Tienanmen Square?

Get your logic in place.
 

huaxia rox

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u took over an area doesnt mean u call people in that area hans.......sinization doesnt mean u call non-han han as well.....

u cant find any1 converted from tibetans to hans can u???

while u refuse to accept muslims r getting converted to hindus dont u???my hindu friend......
 

huaxia rox

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1 u brought up the hitler thing 1st u should ask your self what does all the things have to do with hitler....i was just mimicing your logic.....

2 bose was an admirer of nazi and went to learn all the techqiues natzi used to do.....u dont know that???
 

Ray

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u took over an area doesnt mean u call people in that area hans.......sinization doesnt mean u call non-han han as well.....

u cant find any1 converted from tibetans to hans can u???

while u refuse to accept muslims r getting converted to hindus dont u???my hindu friend......
Sinicisation of Tibet

Early Development

The sinicization of Tibet is the change of Tibetan society and culture since the People's Liberation Army invasion of Tibet in 1950 to better resemble that of the Han Chinese, by means of cultural assimilation, migration, and political reform.

Sinicization on the one hand is an inevitable consequence of the presence of a large number of Han Chinese in Tibet and on the other hand an active policy of the central government of the People's Republic of China. The active policy intends to make Tibet an integral part of China and allegedly control any desire for Tibetan self-determination. The government of China portrays this policy as beneficial to Tibet as political, social and economic reforms have been implemented. However, the government of Tibet in exile alleges that the consequence of this policy is the disappearance of certain elements of Tibetan culture, sometimes termed cultural genocide

In the decades after the collapse of Qing Dynasty and preceding 1950, the region roughly corresponding to the modern day TAR was a de facto independent nation. It also printed its own currency and postage, and conducted international relations with foreign countries. It claimed three provinces Amdo, Kham, and Ü-Tsang (but had only control of west Kham and Ü-Tsang). Since 1950, China reorganized the area somewhat, by making east Kham part of Sichuan, and west Kham part of the newly established Tibet Autonomous Region.

During the Republic of China era following the fall of the Qing Dynasty in the early 20th century, the Chinese Muslim General Ma Bufang, warlord and Governor of Qinghai is accused by Tibetans of having carrying out Sinicization and Islamification policies in Tibetan areas, spreading along Chinese holidays like New Year and Chinese celebrations along with the Islamic religion and making them marry non Tibetans. Forced conversion and heavy taxes were reported under his rule.

China calls the entry of its army into Tibet in 1950 a "peaceful liberation"; the government of Tibet in exile calls it an "invasion" and "colonization". However, the Chinese government points to population increases and quality of life improvements as justifications for their assertion of power in the historically Chinese-claimed region.

Prior to the invasion, the economy of Tibet was dominated by subsistence agriculture. Thus, the stationing of 35,000 Chinese troops in the 1950s weighed heavily on the food supplies in Tibet. At Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama's visit to Mao Zedong in Beijing in 1954, Mao informed him that he would migrate 40,000 Chinese farmers to Tibet

In the 1960s, as part of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward, Chinese authorities forced Tibetan farmers to cultivate maize instead of barley, the traditional crop of the Himalaya region. However, like many of the policies implemented during the Great Leap Forward, the decision proved to be disastrous, resulting in the failing of the harvest and the starving of thousands of Tibetans.

During Cultural Revolution

The Cultural Revolution was a revolution involving students and labourers of the Chinese communist party that was initiated by Mao and was carried on by the Gang of Four between 1966 and 1976 with the intention of preserving Maoism as the leading ideology of China. It was an inter-party struggle to eliminate political opposition against Mao.

The Cultural Revolution affected the whole of China and Tibet suffered greatly as a result. Red Guards attacked civilians who were branded traitors to communism. Thousands of monasteries were looted and destroyed. Monks and nuns were forced to leave their monasteries to "live a normal life", while those who resisted were imprisoned. Prisoners were forced into hard labor, tortured, and executed. The Potala Palace was nearly harmed, but the intervention of Premier Zhou Enlai prevented the Tibetan Red Guards from causing damage.

Migration into Tibet.

China's "national strategic project to develop the West", launched in the 80s-90s, encourages the migration of Chinese people from other regions of China into Tibet, luring them there with attractive bonuses and favourable living conditions. Often, people volunteer to be sent there as teachers, doctors and administrators to assist in the development of Tibet.

Citing the low quality of the labour force and less-developed infrastructure, the Chinese government has encouraged an in-flow of migrants to stimulate competition and to transform Tibet from a traditional planned economy to a market economy in line with the rest of China.

Since the end of the 1990s there have come to be more Chinese than Tibetans in Greater Tibet (but still a minority in the designated Tibetan Autonomous Region). As of 2003, the population consisted of an estimated 6 million ethnic Tibetans and 7.5 million non-Tibetans of different ethnic groups.

In 1949, there were between 300 and 400 Chinese residents in Lhasa.[15] In 1950, the town covered fewer than 3 square kilometres and harboured around 30,000 inhabitants. The Potala Palace and the village of Zhöl below it were considered separate from the city at the time. In 1953, according to the first population census, Lhasa numbered about 30,000 residents, including 4,000 beggars and not counting the 15,000 monks.

By 1992, Lhasa's permanent population was estimated at a little under 140,000 people, including 96,431 Tibetans, 40,387 Han Chinese and 2,998 sundry. To that figure must be added something like 60,000 and 80,000 temporary residents, for the most part Tibetan pilgrims and traders. In 2008, Lhasa had 400,000 people, with a majority still being Tibetan.

The 2008 attacks by Tibetans on Han and Hui owned property were allegedly due to large amounts of them moving into Tibet. George Fitzherbert has said that, "Tibetans complain of being robbed of their dignity in their homeland by having their genuinely loved leader incessantly denounced, and of being swamped by Chinese immigration to the point of becoming a minority in their own country."

The Chinese government has put significant resources into the development of Tibet for its own use. In 2009, the Chinese government invested over $3 billion into the region, 31% more than was invested in 2008. One of the most significant investments is the construction of the Qinghai-Tibet Railway, completed in 2006 at a cost of $3.68 billion, leading to an increase of tourists coming from the rest of China. The Shanghai government contributed $8.6 million to the construction of the Tibet Shanghai Experimental School, where 1500 Tibetan students receive an education exclusively in Chinese, with the exception of Tibetan language courses.

In 1989, Robert Badinter, a high-profile French criminal lawyer, participated in a well-known French television program devoted to human rights, Apostrophes, in the presence of the 14th Dalaï Lama. Talking about the disappearance of the Tibetan culture in Tibet, Robert Badinter used the term "cultural genocide".

Later on, and for the first time in 1993, the Dalaï Lama used the same term, "cultural genocide", to describe the destruction of the Tibetan culture.

More recently, at the time of 2008 Tibetan unrest, he accused the Chinese of Cultural genocide in their crackdown.

I hope that would show how Tibetans are being made into Han.

Are you a Tongzhi?

I would like to inform me that given your knowledge, I daresay you are my friend since equals could be friends.

Further, I have mentioned that I am not a Hindu friend.

That a Muslim cannot be converted or else he will face death has been explained to you from a Muslim source.

But then I concede that it is in English and so maybe you cannot understand the basics given in basic and elementary English!

You tend to be like a cracked record by repeating the same thing which has been explained.

The reason is well understood - you are stumped and totally got yourself entangled in your web of fantasies!
 
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huaxia rox

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so still u just cant name 1 tibetan who had to be converted to han????

is that right??A yes....B no
 

Oracle

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India should covertly support the Tibetan movement and arm them just like the Mukti Bahani. When those are ready, we need to air-drop them to Tibet and liberate it. That will be a grand slap on the face of the Chinese. They need to be shown their place.
 

huaxia rox

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be my guest my indian friend....lets see how its gonna turn out.....tibet becoming a part of Akhand Bharat like what your RSS leaders wish so or zangnan going back to china........
 

Oracle

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be my guest my indian friend....lets see how its gonna turn out.....tibet becoming a part of Akhand Bharat like what your RSS leaders wish so or zangnan going back to china........
The situation right now is filled with gasoline and going out of China's control. We just have to light up a matchstick. Tibetans will liberate themselves and China will burn. Can you deny that?
 

Ray

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so still u just cant name 1 tibetan who had to be converted to han????

is that right??A yes....B no
What has been written about the assimilation process of Baiyue (as an example) and what is happening in Tibet is indicative enough of Hanifying of the people.

Cultural Genocide to put it simply.

Would this help?

Note the difference in names of the Tibetan girl who won the Bronze in the 20 km walk.

Qieyang Shenjie to the Chinese, Choeyang Kyi for the Tibetans
 

huaxia rox

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The situation right now is filled with gasoline and going out of China's control. We just have to light up a matchstick. Tibetans will liberate themselves and China will burn. Can you deny that?
i ve said.....be my guset.....do what ever u think u can......
 

huaxia rox

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What has been written about the assimilation process of Baiyue (as an example) and what is happening in Tibet is indicative enough of Hanifying of the people.

Cultural Genocide to put it simply.

Would this help?

Note the difference in names of the Tibetan girl who won the Bronze in the 20 km walk.

Qieyang Shenjie to the Chinese, Choeyang Kyi for the Tibetans
the lady u talking about is a race of tibetan....no 1 converted her to han......can u bring some other examples in favor of your claims instead???
 

Ray

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This is how Cultural Genocide is taking place in Tibet.

And how the Tibetans are resisting!


****************


"Three Provinces of the Snowland, Losar Tashi Delek!" : By Woser
highpeakspureearth[Thursday, March 10, 2011 21:11]

A few days ago, some people I had just made friends with made their way from Chengdu to their hometown somewhere in eastern Tibet to celebrate Losar, the Tibetan New Year. I asked them if they celebrated both Chinese New Year and Losar or whether they just chose one. They said that the people just like to celebrate Losar whereas their work units (Chinese denwei where the work unit controls life) placed more emphasis on Chinese New Year. People in their hometown rely on livestock and also agriculture to make a living and it is hence different from places like Amdo and Kham; and with regards to New Year celebrations, they by no means have to celebrate Chinese New Year.

In the past few years, there has been a lively debate among Tibetans on the internet about the displacement of New Year's celebrations. One of the opinions is that "the displacement of New Year's celebrations in Amdo (Gansu, Qinghai) and Kham (Tibet) was caused by the historically, geographically and climatically transformed environment, but that the actual atmosphere of the celebrations has become more Tibetan". I have always believed that since we know that our New Year has been somewhat displaced, we should try to gradually replace it; yet, after engaging in profound discussions and thus gaining a more comprehensive understanding, I now think that it is not really a question of displacement and replacement, but whether the choices we make are imposed or natural.

Over 90 years ago, the Minister for Qinghai, Sichuan, and Yunnan, stationed in Tibet, Zhao Erfeng, instigated a brutal massacre in the Kham region, killing many Tibetan monks, thus promoting the system of "Liuguan"; he regarded the transformation of Tibetan folk customs as extremely important, calling it the "opening-up of a culture" and the "reformation of old habits", which included forcing Tibetan disciples to study Mandarin and making Tibetan families take on Han Chinese family names. As a result, in today's Kham region we find many people with Han Chinese surnames, of which many originate from that period. It also included making people celebrate Chinese New Year, Mid-Autumn Festival as well as putting an end to sky burials, instead burying the deceased in the ground. In the Amdo region, the 40-year-long reign of the Ma Bufang Hui nationality warlord family forced Tibetans to intermarry and to change their religious beliefs; it also spread and popularised Chinese New Year as well as other festival traditions, including dragon, lion and lantern dances.

The forced changes back then have turned into more soft changes today; it seems that they are better at capturing people's weaknesses. For example, two years ago, the Tibetan Losar and the Chinese lunar New Year happened to be at exactly the same time, which meant that people could celebrate them together and it saved them from the problem of having to choose. But this year, both festivals are one whole month apart and as far as I know, Kardze Prefecture gave people 7 days holiday for Chinese New Year, but only 3 days for Losar. Not to mention that this is already a differentiation, they even decided to add those 3 days to the 7 days of Chinese New Year vacation, leaving 10 days of vacation around Lunar New Year and none for Losar.

This decision was in favour of those people who wanted to have a long holiday; my family in Dartsedo, for example, were happy to use those 10 days to go to Chengdu and enjoy themselves. It also didn't matter to them that when it came to Losar celebrations, they were busy working and no festive emotions or atmosphere came up. In fact, many people, I am referring to those living in the cities and towns, already entertain an indifferent attitude towards the meaning of Losar. Yet, the above-mentioned decision has certainly let to the fading away of Losar. No matter whether intentionally or not, this is bound to weaken Losar, making it much less important than Chinese New Year.

However, on the other hand, as we can see on the internet, there are some young Tibetans who believe that incorporating some customs of Chinese New Year into Tibetan people's lives is not at all inappropriate. For example, those triple antithetical couplets written in golden letters on red background are originally simply an imitation of the Han Chinese couplet, neither fish nor fowl; yet, it's not simply about "likeness". It is important to know that all the loss is first reflected in the details; every single detail embodies a little bit more loss until in the end, everything is lost.

I am not a narrow-minded nationalist. I realised that on this year's Chinese New Year's Eve, among the Happy New Year Messages I received, most of them were from Tibetans from Amdo and Kham; and there were not only MMS containing Tibetan songs and dance, there were also some SMS from monks reciting prayers and the classic scriptures. This admittedly conveyed a "pure Tibetan atmosphere", but at the same time, it felt somewhat peculiar. Just like Wang Lixiong jokingly wondered, how is it possible that Tibetans are even keener on Chinese New Year than Han Chinese?

It is reported that the people of Kham, Batang, and Litang regions, whose customs and habits had been transformed long time ago by Zhao Erfeng, have in the past two years increasingly given up celebrating the Lunar New Year and have resumed celebrating Losar. Amdo is home to Chentsa County, which is rich in Tibetan cultural heritage and this year people started neglecting Chinese New Year, instead picking up Losar celebrations again. Perhaps the people of these regions really do not care about the restoration of those festivities. Maybe the celebrations will negatively affect local agricultural production. Or perhaps, in reality, there is no negative impact at all because the people who grew up on this land emanate the wisdom of their land and hence can make their own decisions based on this close relationship with their homeland.

Chengdu, March 1, 2011
"Three Provinces of the Snowland, Losar Tashi Delek!" : By Woser - www.phayul.com
 
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huaxia rox

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and how tibetans r converted to hans????

even phayul hasnt told u??

wanna try epoch times??
 

Ray

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the lady u talking about is a race of tibetan....no 1 converted her to han......can u bring some other examples in favor of your claims instead???
And what does the undermentioned mean?

Qieyang Shenjie to the Chinese, Choeyang Kyi for the Tibetans?

How can one have two types of name, unless it is an attempt to change it and yet the person clings to the original!

And note that she has been given an allurement - the coveted membership of the CCP!

And read about the Tibetan New Year and how the Han are doing everything to change the Tibetan mindset!

Also note how Chinese names have replaced Tibetan ones!

You are defending the Impossible!
 
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huaxia rox

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so i ve showed u how muslims get converted to hindus......now how tibetans r converted to hans???how exactly??? i ve been waiting for your answers for like a century.....
 

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