Three countries that should firmly be in India's camp

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Perhaps apart from topic, yet post of Ejazr here re-confirm one of my question:

I have heard people in DFI kept blaming Nehru it's his "spineless" NOT using Indian Air Force in the 1962 war. Yet, according to ToI posting -- and Maxwell book also clearly said "the limitation of IA at 1962" -- it is 1) even IA won't really help in the war, despite due to equipment restriction or "fear of retaliation", i.e. strategic reason, and 2) Nehru's decision must come from his military advisors, considering his plead to USA even involve a specific number: 12 squadrons.

As far as I know that 1962 war in an area India got insufficient preparation is a mistake, no doubt. My point: is it really Nehru's "guilt" for NOT using IA in it?
Actually, one may feel that Nehru was 'spineless' in 1962. But then, it is a matter of perception.

Given the manner the British used the Army against the Freedom movement, the Indian politicians had a deep distaste for anything military and hence kept aloof from even understanding how it operates.

Thus, there was a decline in the military modernisation and preparedness.

Since Nehru knew nothing about the military, when confronted with the Chinese situation, he did as best as anyone would do with little knowledge about the military except that what he saw during the British times when the Freedom Fighters were kept at bay and it seemed to work.

So, he thought that giving an order like Throw them Out would create the correct miracle like situation that he was accustomed to during the Indian Independence Movement.

Having seen the devastation in WWI from the air, he must have been influenced by that and so possibly that was the reason that he did not use the IAF expecting retaliation and destruction.
 

tony4562

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
836
Likes
49
IAF then was not the same IAF it is today. I don't know how strong IAF was, but I do know that in relative terms PLAAF was more modern thna it is today. It had ca 2000 combat aircrafts made up of then state-of-the-art Mig15, Mig17 and IL28, etc. Mig19 was also entering into service.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
In my last post, I probably overwhelmed myself and everyone else with a long list of countries.

So, here's my top pick of 3:
  • Afghanistan
  • Myanmar
  • Vietnam
 

ice berg

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
2,145
Likes
292
One far more interesting question is how India is gonna achieve it.

After all, if it is that easy, why havnt India done so already.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
One far more interesting question is how India is gonna achieve it.
Perhaps India was too saddled with Pakistan and was still maturing. It also did not have a favourable view like it enjoys now worldwide?

After all, if it is that easy, why havnt India done so already.
It is not easy, but possible. India did not have (1) the money and (2) the political will, so go about doing what it is thinking of doing now. There could be other reasons too.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
The reality is that no one is anyone's camp!
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
My answer would be USA, Russia, Japan.

They are all antagonistic to China, and are very influential and powerful countries in their own rights. If they are with India, by default India will be all to influence smaller Asian nations.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
My answer would be USA, Russia, Japan.

They are all antagonistic to China, and are very influential and powerful countries in their own rights. If they are with India, by default India will be all to influence smaller Asian nations.
I'm sure you don't imply 'in our camp' do you? I think we should rather say 'on the same boat as us!'

US and Russia will not be in anyone's camp. They have a one of their own.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
On the same page would be appropriate!:lol:
 

Virendra

Ambassador
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
4,697
Likes
3,041
Country flag
Not considering the ones already in camp ... my pick is Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. Prefer to focus close by first.
 

tony4562

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
836
Likes
49
I'm sure you don't imply 'in our camp' do you? I think we should rather say 'on the same boat as us!'

US and Russia will not be in anyone's camp. They have a one of their own.
And in addition US and Russia will not be in the same camp, thus wrong hypothesis to begin with. Right now outside Bhutan nobody, not even Vietnam, is in India's camp. But that is already one better than China who does not have anyone in her camp, not pakistan not n.korea, not myanmar, the way every country should be.
 

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
And in addition US and Russia will not be in the same camp, thus wrong hypothesis to begin with. Right now outside Bhutan nobody, not even Vietnam, is in India's camp. But that is already one better than China who does not have anyone in her camp, not pakistan not n.korea, not myanmar, the way every country should be.
The Maldives are essentially in India's camp as well.

And all powerful countries need a "camp". It doesn't have to be a camp like that belonging to the U.S. or USSR during the Cold War; at the very least the bordering countries should be part of the "camp" to ensure a buffer zone against other powers.
 
Last edited:

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
7,869
Likes
23,258
Country flag
Guys, let's look at the case by case study of all the countries that we have listed here:

THAILAND

Someone here mentioned Thailand would be firmly in our camp. I doubt this would be of any use. They are culturally similar to us but they are a pacifist nation. China trades massive with them and they would never do anything to upset them. Also as for having a base in south Thailand, don't you guys think we are having enough of Islamic Jihad in J&K already that you want our soldiers to sweat it out there as well? Jihad menace is maximum in south Thailand.

VIETNAM

Full votes for this one. Vietnamese are the only people who can stand their ground in the region. They're the most "Dabangg" of all. We need to ramp up our military production to at least 5 times current level in coming decade and arm them with as many weapons as possible. It should be something like they want it; we supply them. Vietnamese get deadly weapons like BrahMos, we get good revenues and it builds more closer ties. Win-win for both of us.

JAPAN

Looking at what changes Japanese are coming up with (offering patrol navy aircraft and all), I think they are starting to open their eyes and come out of US lackey-ism. I have big hopes from the current more pragmatic Japanese PM. Let's hope this relationship gets stronger militarily. Who knew it would take more than half a dozen Japanese PMs (8 in total) from that US puppet Junichiro Koizumi onwards, to get our relations to this level? :laugh:.

NEPAL

We seriously and I mean seriously need to get our act here together. This was the biggest botch up we ever did in our modern history. Treating Nepal like a lackey without actually making them naturally come to us as disciples. During king Birendra's rule, it was all hunky dory but after that, this stupid government axed the nation's foreign affairs foot badly by fooling around with the "we are pure oh god democracy free thinking, US puppy boys" idiocy that took king Gyanendra to Chinese side. Chinese got the apple and ate it too. They supported Maoists, supported Gyanendra and still make tidy profit out of their intangible sector of "goodwill".

We must than our stars that Nepal is a conservative Hindu/Buddhist country for it not to have become a complete Chinese zombieland when Nepali Army Chief Gen. Chhatraman Singh Gurung became the indirect cause of that lunatic Prachanda's fall.

Our focus must be to exterminate Communism from that country and yet enable better ties with Nepal ASAP.

BURMA

With Thein Sein in the foward seat and junta's wariness of Chinese bullying that is gradually dawning on them, I think we are going on the right track although we could take this a wee bit faster. Not as fast as Vietnam but at least half the speed. Let's face it; Burmese border us, were a part of our country as late as last century and mightily share same culture. Add to the fact that they are filthy rich in natural gas which we need for our NE economy to prosper and even rest of the country. Direct gas pipelines from Burmese zones straight into NE would mean that there would be zero terrorism or separatism here as thousands of tourism related manufacturing and hospitality industries would open up. To supply coastal Orissa and Paschimbanga, we could use BoB under-ocean pipelines to feed directly into our distribution system, reducing massive costs in having to access land transport for peninsular part of our country.

Burmese could gradually start moving towards multi-polar world with us giving them the light to rest of the world. Rather than being loaded with everything Chinese in their military, they could have fine alternatives to strategic weapons from us. A fine mix of Russian, Chinese and our weapons would make them less reliant on Chinese and make Chinese less dominating on them.

It might take quite some time to bring them totally on our side but a friendly neutral Burma would still be a great success. Burma has helped us arrest and kill many terrorist lunatics from our side of India with their own soldiers risking lives (Even if it was on Junta's orders). This is to be honored and we must reward them for this cooperation. Nothing lesser could better strengthen our growing partnership.

INDONESIA

This is tough but not impossible. Remember the SCS squabble? Indonesia also has blocks that are its but those are claimed by our big Red friend to the east. Though Indonesians have some amount of weapons trade with them, they are still not very trusting towards Chinese. We must fill that void. Having strong ties with them would only augment our presence on ASEAN. Indonesia is a rising economy along with Vietnamese in southeast and a significant participant in ASEAN Summit. They have oil wealth as well as a whole load of other resources which we will need in future. Trade can be the first step here to expand ties rather than military which we can move into later.

But we must make a serious and conscious effort to do this.

MALAYSIA

Important commercial partner, a prosperous economy and a distrust of the Reds again. Though unpredictable, but still cordial and friendly. Commercial ties is what we must focus on here. With the MKI-MKM program, we already have made inroads into military side and it is going on pretty well. Their interest in BrahMos further increases the scope of military relationships.

We seriously need to ramp up BrahMos production if we have to actually get our potential friends closer to us. Half of them are interested in this missile big time alone. :p

RUSSIA

They are too big and way too powerful to be in anyone's camp. We were once in theirs, remember?:laugh:. But yeah, on serious note, we need to built better communication channels to communicate any misgivings and ramp up our own production capabilities of weapons so that there are no issues involving sourness or chances of scams.

In fact, Russians are the only ones who have the longest stand on our side. In a multi-polar world, I don't think they'd like to play second fiddle. They were the "Second Pole" of the modern world and without any doubt would continue to be for quite a long time even later.
 
Last edited:

Tolaha

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
2,158
Likes
1,416
And in addition US and Russia will not be in the same camp, thus wrong hypothesis to begin with.
Pakistan has managed to be in both US and China's camp for quite sometime!
So its not a out-of-the-world hypotheses as Pakistan has consistently managed to befuddle US and China.

Right now outside Bhutan nobody, not even Vietnam, is in India's camp. But that is already one better than China who does not have anyone in her camp, not pakistan not n.korea, not myanmar, the way every country should be
Since when has lack of ability become a virtue?
 
Last edited:

Galaxy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
7,086
Likes
3,934
Country flag
Pakistan has managed to be in both US and China's camp for quite sometime!
So its not a out-of-the-world hypotheses as Pakistan has consistently managed to do something similar!

Since when has lack of ability become a virtue?
China was not super power or in Top 2 most powerful country till date.

Pakistan managed to have U.S. on her side but then it didn't helped them at all. It was based on take Money and allows us to do whatever we want via Pakistan route. It is damaging them more. Raymond Davis to recently 24 army personnel killed. Pakistan radical element is against Government, Losing international support and considered as Islamic terroirst country. China is interested due to proxy against India. They didn't helped them except some military weapons.

Indeed, we kept both big power Russia and U.S. on our side (more Russia although)
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,014
Likes
2,309
Country flag
Guys, let's look at the case by case study of all the countries that we have listed here:

THAILAND

Someone here mentioned Thailand would be firmly in our camp. I doubt this would be of any use. They are culturally similar to us but they are a pacifist nation. China trades massive with them and they would never do anything to upset them. Also as for having a base in south Thailand, don't you guys think we are having enough of Islamic Jihad in J&K already that you want our soldiers to sweat it out there as well? Jihad menace is maximum in south Thailand.

VIETNAM

Full votes for this one. Vietnamese are the only people who can stand their ground in the region. They're the most "Dabangg" of all. We need to ramp up our military production to at least 5 times current level in coming decade and arm them with as many weapons as possible. It should be something like they want it; we supply them. Vietnamese get deadly weapons like BrahMos, we get good revenues and it builds more closer ties. Win-win for both of us.

JAPAN

Looking at what changes Japanese are coming up with (offering patrol navy aircraft and all), I think they are starting to open their eyes and come out of US lackey-ism. I have big hopes from the current more pragmatic Japanese PM. Let's hope this relationship gets stronger militarily. Who knew it would take more than half a dozen Japanese PMs (8 in total) from that US puppet Junichiro Koizumi onwards, to get our relations to this level? :laugh:.

NEPAL

We seriously and I mean seriously need to get our act here together. This was the biggest botch up we ever did in our modern history. Treating Nepal like a lackey without actually making them naturally come to us as disciples. During king Birendra's rule, it was all hunky dory but after that, this stupid government axed the nation's foreign affairs foot badly by fooling around with the "we are pure oh god democracy free thinking, US puppy boys" idiocy that took king Gyanendra to Chinese side. Chinese got the apple and ate it too. They supported Maoists, supported Gyanendra and still make tidy profit out of their intangible sector of "goodwill".

We must than our stars that Nepal is a conservative Hindu/Buddhist country for it not to have become a complete Chinese zombieland when Nepali Army Chief Gen. Chhatraman Singh Gurung became the indirect cause of that lunatic Prachanda's fall.

Our focus must be to exterminate Communism from that country and yet enable better ties with Nepal ASAP.

BURMA

With Thein Sein in the foward seat and junta's wariness of Chinese bullying that is gradually dawning on them, I think we are going on the right track although we could take this a wee bit faster. Not as fast as Vietnam but at least half the speed. Let's face it; Burmese border us, were a part of our country as late as last century and mightily share same culture. Add to the fact that they are filthy rich in natural gas which we need for our NE economy to prosper and even rest of the country. Direct gas pipelines from Burmese zones straight into NE would mean that there would be zero terrorism or separatism here as thousands of tourism related manufacturing and hospitality industries would open up. To supply coastal Orissa and Paschimbanga, we could use BoB under-ocean pipelines to feed directly into our distribution system, reducing massive costs in having to access land transport for peninsular part of our country.

Burmese could gradually start moving towards multi-polar world with us giving them the light to rest of the world. Rather than being loaded with everything Chinese in their military, they could have fine alternatives to strategic weapons from us. A fine mix of Russian, Chinese and our weapons would make them less reliant on Chinese and make Chinese less dominating on them.

It might take quite some time to bring them totally on our side but a friendly neutral Burma would still be a great success. Burma has helped us arrest and kill many terrorist lunatics from our side of India with their own soldiers risking lives (Even if it was on Junta's orders). This is to be honored and we must reward them for this cooperation. Nothing lesser could better strengthen our growing partnership.

INDONESIA

This is tough but not impossible. Remember the SCS squabble? Indonesia also has blocks that are its but those are claimed by our big Red friend to the east. Though Indonesians have some amount of weapons trade with them, they are still not very trusting towards Chinese. We must fill that void. Having strong ties with them would only augment our presence on ASEAN. Indonesia is a rising economy along with Vietnamese in southeast and a significant participant in ASEAN Summit. They have oil wealth as well as a whole load of other resources which we will need in future. Trade can be the first step here to expand ties rather than military which we can move into later.

But we must make a serious and conscious effort to do this.

MALAYSIA

Important commercial partner, a prosperous economy and a distrust of the Reds again. Though unpredictable, but still cordial and friendly. Commercial ties is what we must focus on here. With the MKI-MKM program, we already have made inroads into military side and it is going on pretty well. Their interest in BrahMos further increases the scope of military relationships.

We seriously need to ramp up BrahMos production if we have to actually get our potential friends closer to us. Half of them are interested in this missile big time alone. :p

RUSSIA

They are too big and way too powerful to be in anyone's camp. We were once in theirs, remember?:laugh:. But yeah, on serious note, we need to built better communication channels to communicate any misgivings and ramp up our own production capabilities of weapons so that there are no issues involving sourness or chances of scams.

In fact, Russians are the only ones who have the longest stand on our side. In a multi-polar world, I don't think they'd like to play second fiddle. They were the "Second Pole" of the modern world and without any doubt would continue to be for quite a long time even later.
Well, after reading through all your analysis, I just can't help laughing.
There is no one in your list would be in your camp. The simple reason is: india is not powerful enough to provide any material support to them in any possible conflict against China. What these countries need is support from navy as some of them has dispute with china on seas. None of them has any problem with china on the land border except india. Unfortunately, india navy could defeat China in india ocean any time but will also lost to Chinese navy in southern china sea anytime.

What can they get from a sino-india conflict by joining india camp? The most likely conflict spot is sino-india border where these countries can gain anything.
 

Known_Unknown

Devil's Advocate
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
2,626
Likes
1,670
The three countries that should be in India's camp:

US
Russia
China

A political and military alliance between these 4 will dwarf NATO, and will guarantee at least for the next 5 centuries their global hegemony (aka world peace ;)).













What?!! One can always dream, even if those dreams are absurd! :lol:
 

KS

Bye bye DFI
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
8,005
Likes
5,758
The three countries that should be in India's camp:

US
Russia
China

A political and military alliance between these 4 will dwarf NATO, and will guarantee at least for the next 5 centuries their global hegemony (aka world peace ;)).


:
Actually it makes a lot of sense..Something like how different rowdies divide&share a city among themselves.

Moreover Saatchikaaran kaal la vizhugarudhukku sanda karan kaal la vizhugalam.
 

Suryakiran

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
67
Likes
12
Actually it makes a lot of sense..Something like how different rowdies divide&share a city among themselves.

Moreover Saatchikaaran kaal la vizhugarudhukku sanda karan kaal la vizhugalam.
I think namma yaar kaalilayum vizha cendam. Sondha kaalil nikkalaam.

But, This alliance will be similar to rowdy's relationship. Looks very strong for other players, but with mutual distrust, lot of ego clash and willingness to dominate others. Will be too dangerous for others and for themselves also.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top