This is communism

[Ray]

So is it fair to assume that you've never read The Communist Manifesto?

I have also not read Mein Kampf!

Have I missed something?

I have lived under a Communist regime. So, have practical experience and not much of theoretical knowledge though!

Did my thesis on 'Communism - a Threat to India'!

 

[Mad Indian]

So is it fair to assume that you've never read The Communist Manifesto?

Hmmm. No. But i want to read it and tear it apart afterwards.

But for now, i will stick to commie country bashing

 

[SADAKHUSH]

Heard CHINESE have slave labour now too???? Is it true????

All you have to do is GOOGLE SEARCH and you will find loads of pages relating to Chinese labour camps. Several years ago, I saw a documentary by ABC and our CBC TV channels on this very subject.

 

[civfanatic]

I have also not read Mein Kampf!

Have I missed something?

Yes, an insight into an interesting (though troubled) personality.

Though comparing The Communist Manifesto with Mein Kampf doesn't make much sense from any perspective.

I have lived under a Communist regime. So, have practical experience and not much of theoretical knowledge though!

Did my thesis on 'Communism - a Threat to India'!

No you haven't. There is no such thing as a 'communist regime'.

 

[civfanatic]

Hmmm. No. But i want to read it and tear it apart afterwards.

But for now, i will stick to commie country bashing

To criticize an ideology without understanding the ideology is the height of anti-intellectualism

 

[SADAKHUSH]

So is it fair to assume that you've never read The Communist Manifesto?

What makes you lean towards communist ideology? What are the benefits to the society overall have been realised by countries who experienced the communist regimes in East Europe? I have not seen any to this day. The next example being Cuba and North Korea. Is general public happy and content under the communist rule? Can you make a point in support of that?

 

[Mad Indian]

To criticize an ideology without understanding the ideology is the height of anti-intellectualism

So you have?

I have not read Das Capitol. Yeah, but i dont have to read Das capital to know about the Communism and its flaws.
And what made you think i dont know the ideology? and what makes you think i criticise it without knowing it?

And if you are so sure in Communist ideology yourself, lets debate it out shall we?

 

[civfanatic]

What makes you lean towards communist ideology?

A desire to see humanity progress.

However, I am fully aware that the realization of a communist society is highly unlikely anytime soon, so I do not consider myself a 'communist'. I am a pragmatist first and foremost.

What are the benefits to the society overall have been realised by countries who experienced the communist regimes in East Europe?

Ask someone who had lived in the USSR or Yugoslavia during the 60s and 70s.

The next example being Cuba and North Korea. Is general public happy and content under the communist rule? Can you make a point in support of that?

First of all, comparing Cuba and North Korea is pretty stupid. Practically, they don't have much in common, besides the obvious one-party rule and a largely state-run economy. I have been to Cuba and have traveled freely around the country. I know others who have been to Cuba multiple times. Can a foreigner travel freely though North Korea? I think it would be quite difficult.

Is the population content under socialist (not communist) rule? I cannot comment on North Korea since I have not been there. In Cuba, many people who I talked to had grievances about the government and the economy, and they freely expressed them. For example, in recent years there has been an influx of high-priced consumer goods like flat-screen TVs, luxury cars, etc. into the Cuban economy, but most Cubans cannot afford to buy these goods with their salaries. But Cubans are also quite conscious of the world around them, and they realize that they are quite privileged compared to other Caribbean nations. I have posted several times a comparison of Cuba and Haiti in this forum, you can search for that.

 

[Mad Indian]

What makes you lean towards communist ideology? What are the benefits to the society overall have been realised by countries who experienced the communist regimes in East Europe? I have not seen any to this day. The next example being Cuba and North Korea. Is general public happy and content under the communist rule? Can you make a point in support of that?

What he means is that they are not communist countries and that the real communism(whatever fcuk it is different). I hate those idiots who speak champagne socialism. Lets see how he substantiates that Communism is good?

Champagne socialist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[civfanatic]

So you have?

Yes, though it was a while back.

And what made you think i dont know the ideology?

Because you made the following statement:

Dude. As far as i am concerned they are deluded lunatics who scribled something to show off. Thats all. You can make everyone equal. The priciple of making everyone equal destroys the very basis of the govt set up. Communism is a flaw in itself.

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George Orwell's Animal Farm brings out Communism 'at its best'!
'
Eric Arthur Blair or George Orwell (his pen name) was born on 25 June 1903, in Motihari, Bihar, in India.

His father, Richard Walmesley Blair, worked in the Opium Department of the Indian Civil Service. His mother, Ida Mabel Blair (née Limouzin), grew up in Moulmein, Burma where her French father was involved in speculative ventures.

Did you know that Orwell was a self-described socialist?

 

[pmaitra]

Western economies are not struggling because "capitalism" is bad, they're struggling precisely because "capitalism" brought Asian countries the opportunity to catch up with the West... Talking about defeating them at heir own game.

True, but that is because of lack of protectionism, or lack of barriers. The USSR has strong control of what is imported into the country and thus controlled the outflow of revenue. The West does quite the opposite.

 

[Mad Indian]

A desire to see humanity progress.

However, I am fully aware that the realization of a communist society is highly unlikely anytime soon, so I do not consider myself a 'communist'. I am a pragmatist first and foremost.




Ask someone who had lived in the USSR or Yugoslavia during the 60s and 70s.




First of all, comparing Cuba and North Korea is pretty stupid. Practically, they don't have much in common, besides the obvious one-party rule and a largely state-run economy. I have been to Cuba and have traveled freely around the country. I know others who have been to Cuba multiple times. Can a foreigner travel freely though North Korea? I think it would be quite difficult.

Is the population content under socialist (not communist) rule? I cannot comment on North Korea since I have not been there. In Cuba, many people who I talked to had grievances about the government and the economy, and they freely expressed them. For example, in recent years there has been an influx of high-priced consumer goods like flat-screen TVs, luxury cars, etc. into the Cuban economy, but most Cubans cannot afford to buy these goods with their salaries. But Cubans are also quite conscious of the world around them, and they realize that they are quite privileged compared to other Caribbean nations. I have posted several times a comparison of Cuba and Haiti in this forum, you can search for that.

Communism is a stupid ideology designed to look like everyone is equal when in fact no one can be equal.

How can you make PM of the country to be an equal with the taxi driver?

And will you be ready to accept a salary paid to a taxi driver ( assuming you are a programmer )?

If a heart doctor, who studies for twelve(MBBS-6 years+MS 3 years+ MCH cardio 3 Years) full harsh years in getting MCH cardio, is to be paid in the same amount of money as the village idiot, who can become a driver just by learning to drive for few months, then who in the name of god will want to be a doctor

 

[Mad Indian]

Because you made the following statement:

And it has nothing about the Stupid ideologies in the communism?

And class less society? I mean seriously? How can that be achieved? You give power to some one in a group of people, automatically he becomes a class on his own compared to others.

For instance take this DFI, you are a mod and you are a class above the others regular members :taunt1::bounce:

 

[civfanatic]

And class less society? I mean seriously? How can that be achieved? You give power to some one in a group of people, automatically he becomes a class on his own compared to others.

Political administration would be handled through collective decision-making (i.e. grassroots democracy). Such an administration would have to take place in small, homogeneous communes of around 150 people, since grassroots democracy is impractical on a large scale. There would be no need for a ruling class in such a society.

Of course, communism can only survive if the entire world is administered as a collection of stateless communes; if individual states still exist, they will naturally try to expand their own power and pursue their own interests at the expense of others. Due to the unlikelihood of such a global communist system ever arising, I do not consider it practical to consider myself a 'communist', though I do sympathize with the ideology.

 

[amoy]

Living under a so-called "communist" regime I agree there's virtually no communist country in this world presently.

CCP theory claims what's implemented in China is a "China-styled" socialism adapted to China's ground reality as a developing country. It IMO is a "state capitalism" like many have analysed where state owned enterprises play a vital role not only at home but also abroad in global competition.

It's good for different ideologies to compete and grow, and often give lift to each other. Without rise of communism, capitalism wouldn't have reformed itself. Likewise, u see a blend of different ideologies in practice like in China. A "perfect" theory (if ever existed) inevitably are subject to interpretations and variations.

"1984" by G. Orwell is indeed enlightening "' All Men are created Equal, Just some are more equal than others", applicable for all societies.

 

[asianobserve]

Do you know why Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels wrote The Communist Manifesto?

Between them these two 19th century thinkers said a lot during their time, so which part of their theory would like to discuss?

 

[pmaitra]

What makes you lean towards communist ideology? What are the benefits to the society overall have been realised by countries who experienced the communist regimes in East Europe? I have not seen any to this day. The next example being Cuba and North Korea. Is general public happy and content under the communist rule? Can you make a point in support of that?

You can start by reading about Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

You cited Cuba and North Korea, so I'd like to draw your attention to other Communist countries, USSR, PRC, Yugoslavia - what they were before communism, what they became after communism and what they are doing now. It's a mix and match, but you won't find enough reasons to doubt the success of communism either.

 

[Mad Indian]

Political administration would be handled through collective decision-making (i.e. grassroots democracy). Such an administration would have to take place in small, homogeneous communes of around 150 people, since grassroots democracy is impractical on a large scale. There would be no need for a ruling class in such a society.

Of course, communism can only survive if the entire world is administered as a collection of stateless communes; if individual states still exist, they will naturally try to expand their own power and pursue their own interests at the expense of others. Due to the unlikelihood of such a global communist system ever arising, I do not consider it practical to consider myself a 'communist', though I do sympathize with the ideology.

For underlined part really? Thats what i meant remember, administrative power in itself is a class .

For the boldened part. Thats what it is communism. Excellent on paper and stupid in practice. Now tell me sire, if there is no incentive to earn more and be ahead of the others, who will work?

And since you are a sympathiser of communism but not a communist per se( whatever non sense that sentence means,i cant understand), tell me will you work your ass off when you know that no matter how much work you do, you are getting the same pay as others? Or will you be ready to accept the salary of an office peon when you have struggled so hard to become a programmer?

Communism is a concept brought about by lazy morons jealous of the intellectuals.

No matter what justification you give- heart surgeon not equal to bike mechanic.


And i am open to debate any thing about communism(which i believe is a stupid concept)

 

[Mad Indian]

You can start by reading about Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

You cited Cuba and North Korea, so I'd like to draw your attention to other Communist countries, USSR, PRC, Yugoslavia - what they were before communism, what they became after communism and what they are doing now. It's a mix and match, but you won't find enough reasons to doubt the success of communism either.

Joke of the year unless you are trying to be satirical

USSR broke to several pieces Thanks to communism, from being the superpower of the world. PRC was the poorest nation in the world, before They started embracing market economy, and yugoslavia is broken to pieces thanks to the same reason.

I dont know how people still try to justify communism by bringing in the USSR, PRC crap even after knowing the mass killings in their regimes

Mass killings under Communist regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS: Pmaitra, you are not a commie. SO I would like to debate with a proper commie. Regards

 

[asianobserve]

You can start by reading about Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

You cited Cuba and North Korea, so I'd like to draw your attention to other Communist countries, USSR, PRC, Yugoslavia - what they were before communism, what they became after communism and what they are doing now. It's a mix and match, but you won't find enough reasons to doubt the success of communism either.

Communism is insupportable. That whole theory is based on 1 thing: "control." Take control away and the whole structure will crumble like a deck of cards. Now, the question is, do you like that all your actions, aspirations, your propensity for free thinking, your desire to "earn" more than the usual, longing for "choices" in everything from movies to electronics to cars (how about decadent sports cars) to appliances to unique but very comfortable (let's say upscale) residences to your careers, will be curtailed by the need to harmonize with the rest of the population? Or do you want that after you have worked yourself to death you will not be able to own a piece of land or a Porsche 911 Carrera (if your retirement pay will permit) or a private enterprise or trade stocks in the stock market (for your spare cash)...?

Communism is just another term for dictatorship, this time by the communist majority who will force you to "conform" and divest of your fundamental right to own property/ies.

Re former USSR, Yugoslavia and PRC:
1. what they were before: they were monarchies, not capitalists (with the exception of the PRC which only recently extracted itself from centuries of Emperial rule), certainly not democratic capitalists as how we know it now.
2. what are they after: in case of the former USSR and Yugoslavia, their post-communist systems suffered not because of the inherent unsuitability of capitalism but because structurally these countries were not capitalists. They were not also able to immediately adjust after their abrupt transition since their years of communist (or more accurately socialist) social experiments rendered them unprepared for capitalism. In the case of the PRC however, it was lucky it was governed by a leader with immense foresight, Deng Xiaoping, who saw the structural weakness of the Maoist system (Mao's alleged version of the Marxian communist theory), and who slowly shifted Chinese policies to structurally prepare China for Capitalism. Call China's system now as state-led capitalism yet it is still capitalism.